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Old 12-26-2012, 03:30 PM   #14971
pluric
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Originally Posted by twinrider View Post
Such as?
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Those are brands, not "new designs." Can you be more specific?
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Originally Posted by Dallara View Post
Yeah, Mark...

I'd kind'a like to know all those "adventure" touring bikes with slipper clutches, too?

True "slipper" clutches have some use on a race track, and perhaps even for track-day use... And "automatic" slipper clutches, like the Rekluse, certainly have some advantages in a pure off-road environment... But please tell me the true advantage either has on a large-displacement "adventure" style motorcycle that spends most of its time on the the streets and roadways of the world?

Dallara



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Mark, just say "Like on the new BMW" and maybe they will go away.
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:50 PM   #14972
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Mark, just say "Like on the new BMW" and maybe they will go away.

"Like on the BMW" hardly constitutes a class as large as "Ducs, Triumphs, KTMs, Honda, you name it."...

Dallara



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Old 12-26-2012, 04:08 PM   #14973
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Mark, just say "Like on the new BMW" and maybe they will go away.


Maybe YAMAHA will just do a SUZUKI and just keep the S10 going for 10 years as is. Then put some new improved plastics on it. They are not allowed to charge what the Europeans charge so why bother chasing them.

Where I live the same happens in the 4WD market. In the city it's all European wiz bang BS. In the country it's all basic tough and reliable. It's in the bush where REAL 4WD's dominate. About the only modern thing the "bushies" have taken to is Aircon, GPS/Epirbs and Sat Phones.

They still think carpet sucks and bikes without racks are just a waste of space.
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:11 PM   #14974
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"Like on the BMW" hardly constitutes a class as large as "Ducs, Triumphs, KTMs, Honda, you name it."...
Ducati Multistrada 1200, KTM 1190 Adventure, 2013 R1200GS. I don't think the Tiger 1200 has one, but it likely doesn't need one as the Triple doesn't build as much compression and therefore engine braking as the big twins.

And for what do you need it? Big twin engine braking is quite harsh. If you ever start riding a bit faster and downshift hard you'll notice your rear wheel hopping and losing road contact because the engine braking is too much. But as you old farts are going so slow anyways, Yamaha has probably decided it's not worth the effort ...
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:18 PM   #14975
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But as you old farts are going so slow anyways, Yamaha has probably decided it's not worth the effort ...
Back in the day when we ran single cylinder 5Litre bikes Sonny...We learned throttle and clutch control

We didn't didn't need no stinkin' slipper clutches or syncro on the first gear...or bloody suspension for that matter...

Young Pussies.. .
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:38 PM   #14976
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Originally Posted by twinrider View Post
Those are brands, not "new designs." Can you be more specific?
Sure, Ducati Diavel, all the new KTM 1190's, VFR1200T and X... this is just a cursory perusal, I'm sure there are others. I made (and make) no comment about desirability for this class of bike, but am simply pointing out that this is a sportbike technology that is "trickling down" to other classes of motorcycles, as it appears to be happening with the new GS.

- Mark

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Old 12-26-2012, 04:38 PM   #14977
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Back in the day when we ran single cylinder 5Litre bikes Sonny...We learned throttle and clutch control
And if you weren't so doddery nowadays you could even do it today, I know ...

I've had a R1200GS and have ridden the RT and R models, have ridden the new Multistrada and some big Guzzis. Have to say, the slipper clutch is nice. Not necessary, but certainly a nice feature that makes a bike easier to ride.
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Old 12-26-2012, 05:34 PM   #14978
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The only time I've wished I had a slipper clutch was when I was doing track days on my VFR800, because my downshifting skills coming into corners sucked.

Would be nice on the VFR1200X as that's a more powerful and more road-oriented bike that I'd be tempted to take to the track, but it wouldn't make my top ten wish list of improvements for the next gen Tenere. Unless Yamaha bumped the power up to 130hp.

I wouldn't be surprised if a few years passed before we saw major improvements in the S10. That's traditionally how Yamaha does things with all its bikes outside the super sport category. Personally I don't mind, keeps resale value from nose-diving too quickly.
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:24 PM   #14979
Dallara
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Cool2 There's still nothing like know-it-all squids...

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Originally Posted by cug View Post
Ducati Multistrada 1200, KTM 1190 Adventure, 2013 R1200GS. I don't think the Tiger 1200 has one, but it likely doesn't need one as the Triple doesn't build as much compression and therefore engine braking as the big twins.

And for what do you need it? Big twin engine braking is quite harsh. If you ever start riding a bit faster and downshift hard you'll notice your rear wheel hopping and losing road contact because the engine braking is too much. But as you old farts are going so slow anyways, Yamaha has probably decided it's not worth the effort ...

Here we go again...

I guess I'll just have to forget all about my old AMA Pro MX licenses and my WERA Expert road race licenses... And titles.

I guess I also gotta' forget I've been riding bikes with "Big Twin engine braking" for decades and decades now, too, both on- and off-racetracks...

Of course, to run up front we had to actually learn how to properly execute downshifts, rev-matching, etc. during high-speed corner entry so we didn't have wheel hop or lock-ups. I too often forget that today's lazy young squiddies just prefer technology to do everything for them...

But then again, they're usually just riding from Starbuck's to Starbuck's, so why would they want to invest the time to discover how to ride with style and accuracy? Better to just spend the bucks and let an engineer in a factory somewhere do their riding skill for 'em..

Dallara



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Dallara screwed with this post 12-26-2012 at 08:28 PM
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:39 PM   #14980
GrahamD
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But then again, they're usually just riding from Starbuck's to Starbuck's,...
But only if the temperature is just right. Can't get too far away from the aircon temp range.

Anyway, how long are you supposed to wait to get the photos up into the cloud?
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:49 PM   #14981
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Here we go again...

Of course, to run up front we had to actually learn how to properly execute downshifts, rev-matching, etc. during high-speed corner entry so we didn't have wheel hop or lock-ups. I too often forget that today's lazy young squiddies just prefer technology to do everything for them...

~


No kidding! I have none of Dallara's licenses or trophies, etc, but Dad taught Sis and I that rev matching was part of the driving skills package. Not to mention learning to actually shift! These new pups don't even have to take the driver test with a manual trans any more. No wonder they think a car is a phone booth.

Slipper clutch is one of those things that can help when you screw up, but I don't consider it at the same level as ABS. Sure, I know how to threshold brake and have spent a significant amount of time practicing it, but I still like it plenty when the ABS saves me when I mis-read the road condition or didn't see sand or a diesel/coolant spill on public roads. The slipper clutch is compensating for something I do actually have control over.

Some of the tech is good, some of it is kind of nannyism stuff though. I could do w/o linked brakes, for example. That probably comes from the guys that fear the front brake, and the racer boys telling the noobs not to use the rear on the street.
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:20 PM   #14982
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Rant Removed ...
Wait - that all falls under the "the older I get the faster I was" category. I bow to your memories!
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:31 PM   #14983
Dallara
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Wait - that all falls under the "the older I get the faster I was" category. I bow to your memories!


And I'll just continue to wonder about some folks' apparent inability to execute a proper downshift...

Of course, I often forget about how that "Big twin engine braking is quite harsh" for you folks with limp wrists...





Dallara




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Old 12-26-2012, 08:38 PM   #14984
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Blah blah blah ... I have ridden enough twins to get by just fine. I still like it when proven technology makes things easier.

Do you still use an outhouse or have you advanced to newer technology for the rest of your daily life?
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:07 PM   #14985
Dallara
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Blah blah blah ... I have ridden enough twins to get by just fine. I still like it when proven technology makes things easier.

Do you still use an outhouse or have you advanced to newer technology for the rest of your daily life?

Well, apparently not so much that you aren't still awfully spooked by those "Big Twins" and their engine braking... Maybe you should just really go *all-in* on this technology thing and get ya' one of them "Big Twin" BMW scooters with the CVT trannys... That way you wouldn't have to worry about that dastardly engine braking, or even about that nasty ol' stuff like shifting gears and all!



And me? Well, where I grew up we always had toilets and indoor plumbing... But hey, don't feel bad if you didn't. That ol' toilet flush lever isn't nearly as hard to master as a rev-matched downshift!

Dallara




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