Worth the price to beef up a 650 twin?

[DiabloBlanco]

Ok so it's been a few days. I was just tooling around on the Wunderlich site and came across these...

Here are the ones labeled for the 650, 1,199 for hydraulic and 899 for "regular"
http://www.wunderlichamerica.com/mm5...e=F650GSTWIN-U

Now reading the information it seems they cost more than the 800's because " It has been determined that the front springs need to be upgraded in order to ensure good handling and make the most of the improved shock." So they come with new springs for the front.. so this could be a "total" fix for me, yeah?

And these are labeled for the 800, 999 for hydraulic and 699 for "regular"
http://www.wunderlichamerica.com/mm5..._Code=F800GS-X

So what says you amigos? Anyone heard good things or had good experiences with these or Wilbers in general? Worth the dough?
Probably a question better suited for the manufacturer, but think I could get that extra inch of clearance through this too?

Furthermore, Huck, Gio, if I got this, would you still recommend the Intinimators?

Thanks guys

[huckleberry]

well if you only want rebound adj. like you have now, and if its actually for the twin not the single, cause that looks like a 650 single shock, why not? still think you should go to the hardware store and buy a 1 foot piece of 1.25" pvc pipe and cut it to 1/2" (2 pcs) install in forks and adj rear preload to give the same sag, ride bike and see what you think would cost all of $2.00 and help you understand whats going on.I personally would lean to the hyper proshock because of the high and low speed compression adjusters, really you should read up on what these adjusters do to understand how the suspension works which i think will help you make up your mind as to what you want!

[DiabloBlanco]

Yeah it's definitely for the 650 twin, I'll try to do some more research, get a little suspension smarter. Thanks

[huckleberry]

Originally Posted by DiabloBlanco

Yeah it's definitely for the 650 twin, I'll try to do some more research, get a little suspension smarter. Thanks

the only reason i say it looks like the 650 single shock and that you should check is cause i ordered a wp shock from wp america and it looked just like that 1 and it turned out to be for the 650 single the twin shock has an eye on the bottom like on top [IMG][/IMG]

[markymcd]

Originally Posted by DiabloBlanco

Yeah it's definitely for the 650 twin, I'll try to do some more research, get a little suspension smarter. Thanks

Just responded to your PM...

One thing I forgot to mention was to get the Intiminator from Ricor for the front. Try the Discount Code advrider. might still be activated. It was a 50% discount.

I put them in myself. Not too hard if you've got the basic tools and it makes quite a good difference.

Overall, I say yes, it is worth beefing the bike up. It's kind of a hobby over time and as you ride you'll figure out what you want to change. It will never be a dual sport bike just like the 800gs will never be a dual sport bike. It's an ADVENTURE bike and with a little tweaking a damn good one.

[huckleberry]

really far too many people sell the 658 short 7" of very good suspension travel is better than 8.5-9"" of shitty travel plus you get into the bike feeling heavy as it gets taller, the big thing in my mind again is a bike that fits and does what you want it to do, i don'k care if it has snorkels down the sides or not what i want is handeling and good suspension and power that works where i want it the 658 can do this but it takes a few bucks just like on the 8

[DiabloBlanco]

Good tip Mark! the code wasn't for 50% off, but 30%, still, it's a $90 savings

I agree the two rear springs do look similar, but the Wunderlich site for that Wilber is full of saying "650 twin", yada yada, and essentially because the front forks are so weak on the 650 compared to the 800 it costs more to buy this (650/800) shock because we throw in new front fork springs too.

I couldn't agree more, this bike does get sold short, the numerical distance in inches that it travels isn't what's most important, I just want it to handle the bumps better (i.e. not bottom out) and gain maybe an inch in additional clearance. And true, I'm not looking to make this a dirt bike/crazy dual sport, I'm not a huge off roader, but I do think of myself as an adventurer and sometimes that takes you off the paved path which I don't think they the factory 650 is all that ready for. During the trip there were some really sketchy long stretches of absolute shit road that just had me nervous on her. But the more I read the more I agree, it probably was that damn charcoal canister that had me stalling through and for miles after the big river crossing I did, but a few other people reported it dying out in rain, so I guess I'm lucky it took being submerged on mine and torrential rain hasn't ever done it.

But really you guys have been amazing with your advice with a guy (me) who loves to ride but has never had any instruction on the mechanical workings of suspension systems and whatnot. Kudos

[markymcd]

ya. it's a great bike and all the folks that say it's not able to do 'this or that' are mostly full of crap. I'll bet 95% of the riders on the 650twin or 800 ever come remotely close to pushing it's limits. It's a case of ego bigger than balls.

But it's all fun and good. I find making improvements to be more of an issue of making the bike unique to yourself and your riding style. These bikes are awesome for that. So many options.

My next step is to get the rear spring from 'Sasquatch' then get my ass down to Idaho in the summer and have him valve it.

Ride on!
Mark

[DiabloBlanco]

Definitely let me know how that goes for you when it happens. As I said in here before, I don't "need" to do my rear anytime soon since besides a semi-simple trip to Alaska this summer I won't have a major adventure for probably two years so I can hold off on doing the back for a while.

Does anyone know, once a thread has been created, can the name be changed? Maybe I make a change to this one's title and it can become a more general thread for 650 twinners to look for info on upgrading the suspension. If not whatev.

[The Griz]

Originally Posted by JoelWisman

There is more then meets the eye thats different between the 650 and 800.

The 800 is set up to ride aggressively. Many details add to the bike feeling as feisty as it does.

The 650 is set up to be very tame.

One is not superior to the other, they have different character by design.

Test ride the 800, if it's character is what you are looking for then trade. You will spend thousands more to mod the 650 to feel and respond the same.

You will never get back the money you put into farkles but every single one will bolt onto the 800 so just transfer them.


the 650 is almost as big of a seller, at my dealership at least, as the 800 so we wouldn't beat u up much at all for that trade, especially if u traded for an 09 new bike or one of our used 800's

other dealerships that have big inventory of 650 and 800gs's including used should treat you nice as well.

Test ride the F8 then call around, you may be pleasantly surprised.

+1 In my opinion there is so much that is different between these two bikes that you'd spend far more to get the F650GS2 to behave like an F800GS than you'd spend on just trading it up to the F8, regardless of what the F650GS2 owners say. I've ridden both and own an F8. A countersprocket change won't cut it! Some of the more pain in the ass upgrades you'd have to do to the F650GS2 would be somehow upgrading to the 21" front wheel and somehow getting USD forks on. Yes, the F800GS USD forks are not the greatest in the world, but they are definitely better than F650GS2's telescopic forks. And all the upgrades you'd do to the F650GS2 won't raise the resale value one bit! Regarding suspension upgrades, as of now there are many suspension manufacturers that make aftermarket rear shocks and fork springs for the F800GS and the F650GS2. They include WP (yes, WP, there's proof all over), Ohlins, Hyperpro, Wilbers, Bitubo, and Elka to name just a few.

[markymcd]

Originally Posted by The Griz

+1 In my opinion there is so much that is different between these two bikes that you'd spend far more to get the F650GS2 to behave like an F800GS than you'd spend on just trading it up to the F8, regardless of what the F650GS2 owners say. I've ridden both and own an F8. A countersprocket change won't cut it! Some of the more pain in the ass upgrades you'd have to do to the F650GS2 would be somehow upgrading to the 21" front wheel and somehow getting USD forks on. Yes, the F800GS USD forks are not the greatest in the world, but they are definitely better than F650GS2's telescopic forks. And all the upgrades you'd do to the F650GS2 won't raise the resale value one bit! Regarding suspension upgrades, as of now there are many suspension manufacturers that make aftermarket rear shocks and fork springs for the F800GS and the F650GS2. They include WP (yes, WP, there's proof all over), Ohlins, Hyperpro, Wilbers, Bitubo, and Elka to name just a few.

I agree Griz. I'd say get the one that's closest to where you want it to be and modify it from there. Don't try to make one be the other cuz it won't be worth it.

[huckleberry]

Originally Posted by The Griz

+1 In my opinion there is so much that is different between these two bikes that you'd spend far more to get the F650GS2 to behave like an F800GS than you'd spend on just trading it up to the F8, regardless of what the F650GS2 owners say. I've ridden both and own an F8. A countersprocket change won't cut it! Some of the more pain in the ass upgrades you'd have to do to the F650GS2 would be somehow upgrading to the 21" front wheel and somehow getting USD forks on. Yes, the F800GS USD forks are not the greatest in the world, but they are definitely better than F650GS2's telescopic forks. And all the upgrades you'd do to the F650GS2 won't raise the resale value one bit! Regarding suspension upgrades, as of now there are many suspension manufacturers that make aftermarket rear shocks and fork springs for the F800GS and the F650GS2. They include WP (yes, WP, there's proof all over), Ohlins, Hyperpro, Wilbers, Bitubo, and Elka to name just a few.

wp does not yet make a shock for the 650 twin! ya know griz if you would slow your fingers down to the speed of your brain you might come off a little smarter and the 8 is not that much different. if i bought wp 48mm forks and a wp shock both set up with the same travel as the 8 add a spoked 21 and 18 wheels and put a 16 counter sprocket on it how much difference is there? a couple hp at 7,000 rpm? you 8 guys have to buy new rims cause they bend like butter, the fork is a piece of crap along with the shock so you guys have to change this stuff too. and we get ours for 2 grand less to start! you can stick your 8 is better attitude where the sun don't shine!

[The Griz]

Originally Posted by huckleberry

wp does not yet make a shock for the 650 twin! ya know griz if you would slow your fingers down to the speed of your brain you might come off a little smarter and the 8 is not that much different.

Originally Posted by The Griz

as of now there are many suspension manufacturers that make aftermarket rear shocks and fork springs for the F800GS and the F650GS2. They include WP (yes, WP, there's proof all over), Ohlins, Hyperpro, Wilbers, Bitubo, and Elka to name just a few.

They do for the F800GS! You'll notice I was speaking of both bikes about suspension upgrade manufacturers, not just the F650GS2. I think you need to practice what you preach, and read the post before you respond to it!

Originally Posted by huckleberry

if i bought wp 48mm forks and a wp shock both set up with the same travel as the 8 add a spoked 21 and 18 wheels and put a 16 counter sprocket on it how much difference is there? a couple hp at 7,000 rpm? you 8 guys have to buy new rims cause they bend like butter, the fork is a piece of crap along with the shock so you guys have to change this stuff too. and we get ours for 2 grand less to start! you can stick your 8 is better attitude where the sun don't shine!

You just pointed out that WP does not make a shock for the F650GS2! ... Even if they did, you think you can do all that for less than $3500?? Good luck. And it won't add squat to the resale value!

No need for the remarks, my friend. We're all just trying to help out on this forum. You act as if I attacked you personally! I was talking to the OP, not you.

[huckleberry]

Originally Posted by The Griz

+1 In my opinion there is so much that is different between these two bikes that you'd spend far more to get the F650GS2 to behave like an F800GS than you'd spend on just trading it up to the F8, regardless of what the F650GS2 owners say. I've ridden both and own an F8. A countersprocket change won't cut it! Some of the more pain in the ass upgrades you'd have to do to the F650GS2 would be somehow upgrading to the 21" front wheel and somehow getting USD forks on. Yes, the F800GS USD forks are not the greatest in the world, but they are definitely better than F650GS2's telescopic forks. And all the upgrades you'd do to the F650GS2 won't raise the resale value one bit! Regarding suspension upgrades, as of now there are many suspension manufacturers that make aftermarket rear shocks and fork springs for the F800GS and the F650GS2. They include WP (yes, WP, there's proof all over), Ohlins, Hyperpro, Wilbers, Bitubo, and Elka to name just a few.

do you even know what you said? And yes i can put an 8 shock on the 650 don't you read?pull your head out of the mud oh who said anything about rersale but you

[DiabloBlanco]

Yeahhhh so I'll just let you guys hug that one out.

I would say that yes, if what I wanted was an F8 clone, I would just ditch the 650 and take the butt pain to get the 8 and I spent weeks and weeks researching the two before they came out and was at a dead 50/50 until I walked into the dealership and they had the 650 and not the 8, I rode it, loved it. There are definite aspects of the 8 that I am envious of, but if I can improve the 650's off road manners with better suspension, while maintaining its pavement advantage that's a win-win for me. I've got 10,000 on the odometer and probably only 600 is in shitty off road conditions, so if 94% of my riding is pavement, I still see the advantage of the 650.

Furthermore, while a 21" front wheel is attractive for some obvious reasons, I do have a lot of faith in my solid wheels (and the option of TPMS) and considering my higher tendency to be on pavement...

After a year and a half of having these two bikes in my face, one thing has never changed and that's seeing the obvious advantages of each. The more time I spend researching products and options ad self evaluating, the more I see my sweet spot is somewhere right in the middle of these two sisters (and who doesn't want to be between two sisters? Although a friend who thought the same thing a few weeks ago decided trying to put a hand in each of those cookie jars will get you in more trouble than you care to chew )

30-45 more days Griz!