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Old 09-26-2011, 12:00 PM   #4591
dwj - Donnie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchizzMan View Post
Some food for thought:

During the weekend before the body dump in Cabo del Rio there were 67 homicides reported in NY City. 67 vs. 35. And the 35 deaths in CdR were likely single-cause homicides involving 2 criminal orgs.

Now I don't have specific knowledge of the deaths in NY City other than they were not a single incident. Therefore the diversity of individuals involved, of causes and locales make it potentially much harder to identify the risks and avoid them compared to the drug violence in Mexico.

Just my dos centavos.

You may be correct my friend, but cutting peoples head off and taking the skin off their face tears at a primal level that regular stabbing and shooting can't touch. Its like our exaggerated fear of snake bites, shark attacks and bear attacks. They don't happen very often, but the fear of the possibility is way beyond the statistical possibility.
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Old 09-26-2011, 01:14 PM   #4592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwj - Donnie View Post
You may be correct my friend, but cutting peoples head off and taking the skin off their face tears at a primal level that regular stabbing and shooting can't touch. Its like our exaggerated fear of snake bites, shark attacks and bear attacks. They don't happen very often, but the fear of the possibility is way beyond the statistical possibility.
Exaggerated fear greater than the risk. Good way to put it. And totally understandable. I got some "what if" questions from a friend over the weekend after I explained my risk management approach to riding Mexico. Told him there are two things you can't solve for: being stupid and being unlucky.

But I'm not a cartel member. They start doing that stuff to gringo tourists then everything changes for me. Like this story of a rider being chased through Tamaulipas last Friday. Has me rethinking my route to Oaxaca next month. Sounds like the "business model" may be expanding to include highway robbery and possibly kidnapping. At least in that area. We'll see how things develop.
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Old 09-26-2011, 01:35 PM   #4593
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Originally Posted by GeezerStank View Post
Evidently the Mexican bad guys are much better shots than the drug pukes here, plus they really have a way of following up and making sure the job is done. You cut a person's head off, they definitely aren't wounded anymore. Glad you find solace in that, kinda weird, but it makes you feel better, that's what counts.
What I take solace in, as you put it, is that the brutality we see going on in Mexico is clearly not related to gringo tourists or even the population at large. Recent killings of bloggists excluded.

From the details you posted it would seem that avoiding violent crime in NY City should be as doable as in Mexico.
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Old 09-26-2011, 01:36 PM   #4594
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I also found it odd that the military kids just laughed at him, and the US Customs guy told him to shut up and wait in line. Do motos have to wait in line at Reynosa? Whatever the case, that was a seriously bad day.

Rt. 97 actually empties at the Pharr crossing, rather than Reynosa/Hidalgo. He may be understandably confused. Pharr is where the missionary couple wherein the wife was shot and killed in San Fernando came to rest when they raced back into the USA.

Yes, motorcycles are usually expected to wait with the cars at Reynosa. There is a seldom-used VIP lane that some will take and I have seen riders get chewed out for using it and then cutting through the barriers.

The rest of the story I frankly find hard to believe. The Mexican military takes this stuff too seriously. And while I find that attitude of the US guys not out of the question surely if you said that you were being chased by someone that was armed they will go on alert. They too have M-4's and like to show them off.


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I was looking on my Guia Roji map and couldnt find a "Corral" either. So, does anyone have an idea exactly where this happened? Was it on the entire stretch from San Fernando to Reynosa?
In fairness, I have seen the name somewhere and can't place it at the moment.

I'd love to get Arte's input on all of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crashmaster View Post

Maybe catfishingguide can post up on this thread with some more details. It sounds like he was chased for 100 miles or so.

If in fact kidnapping foreigners is a new game for the Zetas, that pretty much changes everything for riding in that part of Mexico. Its the Gulf Cartel and the Zetas in that part of Mexico, correct?

If it's going to happen, it's going to happen in precisely that area. Frankly I have been telling folks to avoid riding around San Fernando and especially on that stretch of Rt. 180 that goes by La Pesca.

With that said and done I still have troubles with this tale. Unless something have shifted dramatically in the last several months, or unless I am missing something (this didn't happen at night, did it?) the Federales were at thick as fleas at that motel at the intersection of Rt. 97 and Rt. 180, according to one of the guys that posted here not long ago (wasn't that Bato?).

I just find it hard to see the sort of "relay" of bad guys that would chase someone for 100 miles with everyone using walkie talkies. I guess it's not out of the question, but the range on the average Motorola-type radio is only a few miles and hey ... wouldn't disposable cell phones make more sense in this day and age? Those certainly aren't rare in Mexico, unless the Feds have cut all the cell service down there (along with controlling access to the Pemex stations, which we knew about).

Very strange.
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Old 09-26-2011, 01:50 PM   #4595
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Exciting story. Good thing they were not shot at, but I found that a bit odd given how many times they passed by guys in the road with guns, some close enough to tell the pistol was a Colt 1911. But I sure as hell wouldnt have stopped to see what they wanted either. I also found it odd that the military kids just laughed at him, and the US Customs guy told him to shut up and wait in line. Do motos have to wait in line at Reynosa? Whatever the case, that was a seriously bad day.

I was looking on my Guia Roji map and couldnt find a "Corral" either. So, does anyone have an idea exactly where this happened? Was it on the entire stretch from San Fernando to Reynosa?

Maybe catfishingguide can post up on this thread with some more details. It sounds like he was chased for 100 miles or so.

If in fact kidnapping foreigners is a new game for the Zetas, that pretty much changes everything for riding in that part of Mexico. Its the Gulf Cartel and the Zetas in that part of Mexico, correct?
+1 This account really concerns me as I'm planning a run the Beemer Rally.
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Old 09-26-2011, 01:53 PM   #4596
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Originally Posted by dwj - Donnie View Post
You may be correct my friend, but cutting peoples head off and taking the skin off their face tears at a primal level that regular stabbing and shooting can't touch.

It's really nothing amazingly new. I have seen accounts of several US outlaws in the 1800's that sought easy pickings in Mexico and they were beheaded and their heads placed strategically along the trails as a warning to other US outlaws to stay out.

For that matter, not only were the medieval Spanish really talented when it came to torturing someone, but read up on drawing and quartering. That's a charming English tradition that wasn't taken off the books until the early 1900's as I recall and involved slowly dismembering a person while they were alive, and keeping them alive as long as possible as the executioner slowly cut off their tongue, genitals, and all four limbs. Most folks died about the time their bowels were burnt.

Anyway ... in this day and age of media the various factions are going for maximum shock value. And they are getting it.

Moral of the story: If you want to stay in one piece then stay the hell away from drugs and drug traffic. Many of these "innocents" are actually lookouts for the various gangs (mostly the Zetas around here) and their families are in denial that Junior got beheaded because he or she tried to make an easy $20 and it cost them their lives.

Yeah, it sucks to be poor and unemployed in Mexico right now but that doesn't apply to the majority of gringo motorcycle tourists.
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Old 09-26-2011, 02:10 PM   #4597
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+1 This account really concerns me as I'm planning a run the Beemer Rally.
If you are from West Texas, and heading to Durango, then you aren't going to be anywhere near San Fernando.
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Old 09-26-2011, 02:27 PM   #4598
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Originally Posted by SchizzMan View Post
They start doing that stuff to gringo tourists then everything changes for me. Like this story of a rider being chased through Tamaulipas last Friday. Has me rethinking my route to Oaxaca next month. Sounds like the "business model" may be expanding to include highway robbery and possibly kidnapping. At least in that area. We'll see how things develop.

I agree with you, with a couple of points:

- The violence against bloggers in Nuevo Laredo has me a bit nervous, since I am obviously a gadfly here and elsewhere. I took the Buccaneer Press logos off my bike about 2 years ago. With all that said I don't post anything that I would think would get any of the cartels excited and it's not going to scare me away from exploring NL.

- The tale of a possible robbery in San Fernando is painfully consistent in many ways; almost like someone patterned their story after much of what has been in the media and discussed here. Anyway, San Fernando is where two busloads of folks went missing and surprised the hell out of a lot of local folks that an entire bus (never mind two) could be AWOL and it not make the news. What surprises me the most about that tale is that I would have sworn that all signs were that the military and the Feds had the upper hand down there now.

Maybe not. But until I heard this story, although I was discouraging other folks from riding there, I personally wouldn't have had any problems with doing it myself as long as I could have gotten off the road pretty early in the day.
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Old 09-26-2011, 02:57 PM   #4599
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^^

Good points.

Still, not my risk profile.
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Old 09-26-2011, 04:11 PM   #4600
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Question

I am starting to reevaluate my thoughts of going down to Veracruz in November. I may just head over toward Saltillo and Zacatecas. I just like the warmerweather around Veracruz.

Also, I'm just not sure if I really believe the current story. Too many guns to be no shooting. I also wonder how close the guy was to be able to ID a M1911. If he was riding as fast as he claimed, watching traffic, etc, how would he have time to see what kind of gun the guy had , much less be close enough to ID it ?
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Old 09-26-2011, 06:18 PM   #4601
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This sucks if it is true.

But it does read more like a movie script: 3 trucks, 2 cars, an old tire shop guy, and a Suburban, and he dodged them all. Not one shot fired despite all of the brandishing. A military checkpoint with just three young guys. In Baja you have at least one crew served weapon at each military checkpoint, and more generally two.
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Old 09-26-2011, 07:19 PM   #4602
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I'm sayin' it's a fantasy
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Old 09-26-2011, 07:43 PM   #4603
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There is a lot of talk about it has not happened to a gringo rider yet. In that sentence, "yet" is the key word. There is very little anyone is going to do when it includes gringo riders, so how long will it be, that is the question.

I am still planning my Dec/Jan trip to Baja, but I will continue to monitor. I have a 3,500 mile route laid out for Baja covering the entire peninsula. I will be there three to four weeks excluding the ride to and from Mississippi. I always avoid spending time in border towns and I certainly am not involved in drug trade, but it seems that using that format may no longer be sufficient. What roads/areas should I avoid in Baja outside of the border/drug trade situations already mentioned?

I will be riding solo unless someone from Austin comes along.
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Old 09-26-2011, 09:01 PM   #4604
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Originally Posted by PirateJohn View Post
Rt. 97 actually empties at the Pharr crossing, rather than Reynosa/Hidalgo. He may be understandably confused. Pharr is where the missionary couple wherein the wife was shot and killed in San Fernando came to rest when they raced back into the USA.

Yes, motorcycles are usually expected to wait with the cars at Reynosa. There is a seldom-used VIP lane that some will take and I have seen riders get chewed out for using it and then cutting through the barriers.

The rest of the story I frankly find hard to believe. The Mexican military takes this stuff too seriously. And while I find that attitude of the US guys not out of the question surely if you said that you were being chased by someone that was armed they will go on alert. They too have M-4's and like to show them off.




In fairness, I have seen the name somewhere and can't place it at the moment.

I'd love to get Arte's input on all of this.




If it's going to happen, it's going to happen in precisely that area. Frankly I have been telling folks to avoid riding around San Fernando and especially on that stretch of Rt. 180 that goes by La Pesca.

With that said and done I still have troubles with this tale. Unless something have shifted dramatically in the last several months, or unless I am missing something (this didn't happen at night, did it?) the Federales were at thick as fleas at that motel at the intersection of Rt. 97 and Rt. 180, according to one of the guys that posted here not long ago (wasn't that Bato?).

I just find it hard to see the sort of "relay" of bad guys that would chase someone for 100 miles with everyone using walkie talkies. I guess it's not out of the question, but the range on the average Motorola-type radio is only a few miles and hey ... wouldn't disposable cell phones make more sense in this day and age? Those certainly aren't rare in Mexico, unless the Feds have cut all the cell service down there (along with controlling access to the Pemex stations, which we knew about).

Very strange.
Something does not fit here.
Rt 97 is only 78 miles from the Pharr border up to where it meets with Rt 101, and he talks about some "still 100 miles before get to the border" (and after being chased more than 10 miles).

There is a "Corral Quemado" (Burn Corral) place on the map, just right off the intersection of Rt 97 and 101, but not even me knew this existed, unless there is a gas station named after it, which I doubt it.

and there are about 180 miles from Aldama to the above intersection. I have riddend that route on almost 3 hours, in a rush (avg 70 mph due the towns crossings). So to make 2 hours sound hard (at least for me).

and the last but not the least, south of Rt 97, 101 and 180, it is supposedly still z territory, so how did z managed to enter Reynosa in a full pursuit process whitout become the chased ones? or is any new Etiqueta business to drop off your pray to let your competitor takes over?

something does not fit
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Old 09-26-2011, 09:37 PM   #4605
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Originally Posted by dwj - Donnie View Post
There is a lot of talk about it has not happened to a gringo rider yet. In that sentence, "yet" is the key word. There is very little anyone is going to do when it includes gringo riders, so how long will it be, that is the question.

I am still planning my Dec/Jan trip to Baja, but I will continue to monitor. I have a 3,500 mile route laid out for Baja covering the entire peninsula. I will be there three to four weeks excluding the ride to and from Mississippi. I always avoid spending time in border towns and I certainly am not involved in drug trade, but it seems that using that format may no longer be sufficient. What roads/areas should I avoid in Baja outside of the border/drug trade situations already mentioned?

I will be riding solo unless someone from Austin comes along.
Funny word that "yet". My Guatemalan friend in Mexico City has never figured out what it means or how to use it and I found I was ill-equipped to explain it.

But you're right. "Yet" is the key word.
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