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Old 06-27-2012, 03:06 PM   #8896
tricepilot
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Originally Posted by einnocent View Post
All advice is anecdotal, but first-hand accounts seem to be the least-unreliable.
Had to read that twice.

I think for the casual reader it may be more facilitating to say, that first-hand accounts are the most reliable.

If that wasn't your intent, let me know.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:11 PM   #8897
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Ever since Miss Franklin's english class, I've always had trouble with double negatives
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:12 PM   #8898
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Riding at night in Mexico has never been a wise idea. Pretty much the whole country is open range, so you've got donkeys, cows, goats, sheep, loose dogs, cars/trucks with no lights and the occasional drunk wandering around on the roads.
Add all that to the occasional bad people and often poorly signed, poorly lit and poorly constructed roads means don't ride at night.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:15 PM   #8899
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I agree with Dennis.

Much better to ride at night in the Texas Hill Country.................
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:18 PM   #8900
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Originally Posted by tricepilot View Post
Had to read that twice.

I think for the casual reader it may be more facilitating to say, that first-hand accounts are the most reliable.

If that wasn't your intent, let me know.
In the same way that "democracy is the worst form of government except all the others" (W. Churchill, http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/364.html), I consider first-hand accounts to be merely okay for safety knowledge, but better than anything other than having been there yourself. It would have been clearer to state it your way, but my way is more precise as to my intent. I do think though that sometimes I go overboard on precision at the expense of clarity, so you've got me there, tricepilot
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:23 PM   #8901
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Its 5:23. I will go have 2 shots of tequila and come back to read that again
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:25 PM   #8902
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Crap. I am out of tequila.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:30 PM   #8903
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In Related News.....

Reminder to all Texans and intrepid out-of-staters, and northern Mexicans, that two weeks from Saturday is the state-wide motorcycle RTE BBQ here at Casa Tricepilot.



This is the 3rd annual. We'll continue to hold it here as long as we can, but its getting bigger every year
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:41 PM   #8904
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Originally Posted by tricepilot View Post
I agree with Dennis.

Much better to ride at night in the Texas Hill Country.................
HaHa !
Trice,
I've spent time in the hill country. I know what wanders around out there. To my previous list just add deer.
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:14 PM   #8905
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Originally Posted by gswash_pilot View Post
That is the exact route I'm planning for this winter . I hope you're ready, because here are the questions: what were the roads like (as I'll be on a no-questions road bike)? What about the ferry, prices, schedule, ease of finding or recommended company? Any must-see recommendations, places to stay, particular fried-fish stands not to be missed?

Also, are you doing a ride report, if so, link please!

The advice is solid and seems to be in line with both what everyone here says and common travel/life sense, though I'll have to ditch my riding at night habit .
Roads gave been fine, most people here ride cruddy Italikas and do okay, I have fantasies of taking a Concours 14 down here with TKC-80's. Dual-sport is good for occasional potholes, frequent topes (speed bumps), and the odd unpaved stretch of construction zone. There are dirt roads but you can more or less avoid them. I've not ridden a sport bike here but I would do it.

I don't know anything about winter here, so I can't speak to that but I'd double check to make sure that works.

Ferry stuff is really easy, just check out their website, you can book online, prices are all right there. Prices are in pesos (13 MXN ~= 1 USD). Get a room if you can, the cheaper ones are fine. Book in advance. There's only one company, you should take it. Finding the ferry terminal is easy enough, just follow the signs.The ferry is huge so you'll see it in the water.

My favorite place to eat so far has been here: http://goo.gl/maps/9Wuq My 2nd least favorite place was at a trendy-looking restaurant up the street. Least favorite was at a late-night taco stand in the Zona Luz of Villahermosa where I got tacos of dog or brains or maybe dog brains.

I also discovered my love for fish tacos at this little stand in Guerrero Negro just east of Hotel Malarrimo on the north side of the main drag. But really most places do a decent fish taco, they're hard to muck up.

Places to stay? Try to stay in hostels, they're cheaper and more social. Our pattern has been: go to a town, find its center (signs say "centro" or "zocalo"), bust out the guide book for suggestions, find the place, take a shower, get beer, find women. We are partiers, though. Hotel Yeneka in La Paz is cool and comes with two free shots of tequila.

Ride report here: http://bit.ly/sf2tdf

My don't misses are the city of San Miguel de Allende (find The Mint, bring earplugs to your hostel), Guadalajara (hot women), Mexico City (go here https://foursquare.com/v/expendio-de...64a520c7e93be3). If you like Mayan ruins, do Chichen Itza, though if you are down near Yachitlan that's an experience. If you go to Puebla, be sure to go to Cholula for the nightlife (catch a cab), it's a college town, we had a blast on a Tuesday when school was out of session. If in Holbox, go to Bar Arenas, a roof bar with a hottub.
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einnocent screwed with this post 06-27-2012 at 04:24 PM Reason: Added Bar Arenas
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Old 06-27-2012, 08:12 PM   #8906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gswash_pilot View Post
Hello to all the advriders out there! As prep for a trip I'm planning this winter I've been roaming through the posts and threads here: really loving the Central America Road Wisdom Jeff Munn compiled. I'm currently following dwj Donnie's trip as a source of relevant first-hand info. Obviously though, a trip through mx and central america is not without its concerns and a few of my crew are anxious about safety, especially concerning the infamous drug cartels all over the news.

Thus I was wondering if anybody knows of any more great threads packed with juicy info on mexico and central american road biking, articles or first-hand knowledge which might help dispel this crippling fear of riding in mexico. I'm psyched for this trip and really believe that with common sense and courtesy a ride through central america can be magnificent. Now I just have to prove it, jaja.

Hey keep up the great reports here and the adventurous spirit!
Since you clearly seem committed to the trip
I offer to you that your own personal experience will be what really makes the difference here. Follow all the sound advice of seasoned México riders you find here and, using your own good judgment, you should enjoy the experience of a lifetime. Just keep reminding yourself that any adventure requires challenges for you to overcome. Without these it's just another vacation trip.

Buen viaje, Amigo.
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Old 06-27-2012, 08:18 PM   #8907
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Originally Posted by tricepilot View Post
Ever since Miss Franklin's english class, I've always had trouble with double negatives
That woman wrecked you, man.
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Old 06-27-2012, 08:50 PM   #8908
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Originally Posted by einnocent View Post
A lot of the reaction to Mexico violence -- by both Americans and Mexicans -- seems to be to blame the victim to rationalize what happened. After all, if it only happens to bad people and I do don't anything bad, then it won't happen to me, right? Except this isn't true. Case in point, the partially-completed Guadalajara Mother's Day Massacre, as described in the New Yorker.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...urrentPage=all



It does a disservice to the victims to suppose their guilt after the fact. It also ill-prepares those who read these threads. The fact is that the overall rate of violence in Mexico is comparable to that in the US. However, there *are* hotspots, and you can be smart and not be doing anything stupid and still have something horrible happen to you. The rationalizing I read here and elsewhere reminds me of the fault-finding that happens after someone dies in a motorcycle accident. "He suffered from target fixation," "He should have been sitting at the red light in first gear, ready for someone to plow into him from behind," etc etc. The reality is that what we do is relatively dangerous, and where we go can be dangerous, and sometimes shit just happens.

I just hope that if something horrible happens to me, people in the forums don't start picking what happened apart and figure out some way for it to have been my own fault so that they might feel better about what they do. I look at my own trip to TdF and I've accepted that what I'm doing is dangerous. There are bad roads and bad drivers, and despite my best efforts the bike won't always be 100% tip-top. As much as I try to avoid it sometimes I may have no choice but to ride at night. I ask around before I go anywhere for advice, but still I might just get stopped at a fake police checkpoint, or I might hit a mule at 35 mph in broad daylight, and you'll never hear from me again. I've accepted that, and so has Darren, but it sounds like a lot of people here have not.
Really appreciate your recent posts here on México travel. Solid stuff. Hope you stick around.

Your post above is dead-on as well WRT how folks respond to much of the news reports. I will offer this POV: during my years as an active pilot (including flying to México) "local knowledge" of an area was considered invaluable for flight planning. Such "anecdotal" accounts still required final judgment by the pilot as to what what "thyit" and what was "shinola". But a preponderance of consistent anecdotal accounts was considered to transcend the mere anecdotal.

That's what this thread provides. There is strong consistent alignment of views among those who turn off the TV and actually go ride México.

Now, I think you're someone who already gets this so I don't mean to preach at you. Just putting it out there for general consideration.

WRT the Falcon Reservoir shooting my immediate reaction to the news accounts was to question the local knowledge of the victims. Even living in Austin I knew better than to rent a jet ski and ride to Old Guerrero. Not blaming the victims here. Just criticizing their lack of judgment. My views have since been echoed by the Zapata county sheriff and a local bass fishing guide.

Bottom line for me is this tragedy could have been avoided by using sound judgment and local knowledge. There's a lesson here for all who travel México. Or anywhere else, for that matter.
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Old 06-28-2012, 12:41 AM   #8909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchizzMan View Post
Just keep reminding yourself that any adventure requires challenges for you to overcome. Without these it's just another vacation trip.
One of the best fellows I ever met was in an embassy lobby, trying to get a replacement passport too! Aye, and thanks to all the seasoned mexico riders who have contributed here. I have no intention of launching an 'incident-free' vacation - life happens - but I'll not turn down a trick from a rider who has been there. This ride is exploratory, and that means problems sometimes. Oh well. no pasa nada

Quote:
Originally Posted by einnocent View Post
We've run into tons of people along the way who have been to where we are about to go, and their advice has been the most accurate by far.
says it all
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Old 06-28-2012, 05:13 AM   #8910
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Originally Posted by einnocent View Post
I think this topic -- safety in Mexico -- is really important, and I regularly find myself arguing passionately with both sides over this. On one side people are freaking out, and on the other side people are being blithely dismissive, and I believe the truth (as always) lies somewhere in between.

Very well said! I find myself very often in this exact position! I recommend travel to Mexico to just about anyone I come in contact with, but at the same time have a problem with how "blithely dismissive" some folks can be of the problems that do exist.
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