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Old 02-06-2013, 01:41 PM   #12841
PirateJohn
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Jack, you might review the comments about bandits and carjackers around Alamos. I wouldn't discourage you from going there, but be aware that there may be some troubles on that little road between Alamos and el Fuerte. Also, someone on one of the RV forums discussed a recent pickup theft but it sounds like someone targeted the man's truck specifically.

(Sending copy privately as well)


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Old 02-06-2013, 02:31 PM   #12842
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Hey folks,

I got a legal notice about this thread, couldn't tell if it was from a lawyer or individual, who said they were subject to violence when they went. The complaint was that some posters created a false sense of security. The ask was to have the thread removed or put a disclaimer in each post.

I don't want to remove it because it seems like a really important topic and a lot of knowledgeable people have spent a lot of time weighing in. And I don't have a way to put a disclaimer in each post and anyway I wouldn't want to editorialize your posts. So I guess the thing to do is make you aware that some people feel you're giving a false sense of security and you might want to add a disclaimer.

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Old 02-06-2013, 03:13 PM   #12843
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Hey folks,

I got a legal notice about this thread, couldn't tell if it was from a lawyer or individual, who said they were subject to violence when they went. The complaint was that some posters created a false sense of security. The ask was to have the thread removed or put a disclaimer in each post.

I don't want to remove it because it seems like a really important topic and a lot of knowledgeable people have spent a lot of time weighing in. And I don't have a way to put a disclaimer in each post and anyway I wouldn't want to editorialize your posts. So I guess the thing to do is make you aware that some people feel you're giving a false sense of security and you might want to add a disclaimer.

Thanks,
Baldy
Thanks Baldy for stopping by

As you probably know better than anyone, this is simply an internet forum where people post their opinions, observations, likes, dislikes, and everything else including the kitchen sink. There are a lot of regulars who post here who enjoy riding a motorbike in Mexico, and many friends have been made, in person and online.

With over a million hits, there must be something to the overall theme that is appealing. Mexico, our neighbor, has been a long-time destination for millions of visitors. Each of those visitor, whether they go by motorcycle, air, or by land, is de facto making a decision, consciously unconsciously, that traveling to Mexico is right for them. Conversely, there are sure to be legions of folks who feel Mexico isn't safe and therefore do not go. If this thread has any denominator, it is that neither side is right or wrong - everyone makes the correct decision for themselves.

The basic premise of riding a motorcycle is an example. As ADV is a meeting place on the internet for folks with all types of interests, not all of them motorcycle related, it does share at least a motorcycle DNA among its many branches. Is riding a motorcycle safe? Can a site guarantee safety on a motorcycle or should each thread and post created under its banner come with a warning or a disclaimer?

If there is something that might look at the outset as a disclaimer, it might be this found in Post #2:

***********************

Is Mexico Really Safe?

There exists a broad spectrum of opinion out there as to just how dangerous Mexico is for the motorcycle traveler.

Here in the "Is Mexico Safe" thread we respect both opinons. And we don't care if you change horses in the middle of the stream, that is to say, you once thought it safe to ride there but have now decided to take a pause on travel south. That's fine. Or, maybe reading about the adventures of the regular posters here you decide to saddle up and see Mexico and/or points south. That's fine too.


Many of us ride Mexico regularly. We love her people, her culture, her landscape, her food, her customs and often those things you just can't put your finger on. Most of us comment on how "safe" we feel once we cross the border out of the US of A and enter Mexico. There are some of us who only ride a couple of hundred kilometers inside the border, see a few things, and come home after a few days. Some, like Sjoerd, plot extensive routes inside Mexico and keep a history of off-the-beaten-path travels on a well worn map (he showed it to me at Casa Tricepilot). A lot of us have favorite areas of Mexico. Some of our current favs is the area surrounding Durango where SR lives, the area in and around Veracruz where MikeMike lives, and many of us enjoying my personal favorite part of Mexico, Oaxaca.


Not one of the regulars here say that travel in Mexico by motorcycle is without risk. Mexico is indeed in the midst of a drug war and some would say in certain areas the climate borders on civil war. BUT, and the reader of this thread has to listen here, the task is to size up the risk individually and make a personal decision to go or stay home. My decision to ride through Mexico to Guatemala in January is not a signal to everyone else that the same decision is right for them. Once in Mexico, I generally do not go out late at night to parts of town I don't know and stay late into the night. Others have this practice, its just not normally mine. Different risk management choices. Some people take great pride in riding solo in Mexico. I have ridden many miles solo in Mexico. Although under the current climate, and in a tip of the hat to concerns of Tricewife, I have modified my risk management profile to endeavor to ride with another rider as much as possible.


Participation in the Is Mexico Safe thread is not a stamp that those who regularly post here believe Mexico is without issues. Regular riders believe the risks can be managed and they press on. I have personally posted stories and follow-up commentary on those who have encountered danger in Mexico. I recently posted the letter to the editor of BMW ON magazine regarding the robbery near El Fuerte experience by Tope_Stomper and her riding partners. The more we share these actual, credible experiences the more data points we have to use to make our go/no-go decisions and to adjust our habits and practices on the motorcycle should we decide to press on. Based upon her report, for example, several riders reengergized their practice of spreading money around their bikes and once again committed to carrying a "throw-away" wallet. Stories like hers have a definite home here in this thread. Also welcome is commentary by anyone who takes in such stories and changes their attitude about riding to Mexico.


It is true that most of the posts here in this thread are by frequent Mexico riders. Out of that association a bond has grown and we look forward to hanging out at the "bar" so to speak and having a virtual coffee or beer together. And from that, many of us have met via this thread and have gone "downrange" across the Rio Bravo and gone exploring Mexico together. These days, what we often like to do is point the bike towards an expat's house in Mexico and go and enjoy their hospitality and share in the discoveries they've made and go meet and enjoy the friendship of their neighbors. We often meet here in virtual space to shoot the breeze, have a laugh, and do what most regulars do on all threads that have legs on ADV.


Don't think that all the while, we're not keeping an eye ourselves on the news, the State Department warnings, intel from those living inside the country, and sending PMs to each other with "what do you think?" We keep in mind what we read from everyone here who post "this happened to me" stories.


What is not helpful here is the broad brush on Mexico, one way or the other. The recent post including wording to the effect that Mexico "has the smell of death, eminating from its bowels" is a perfect example. This is disrespectful, untrue, insulting and does not make a contribution. We will address these posts and posters, and attempt to draw out a more meaningful dialog. By the same token, if anyone can send me a PM with a link to a post where a regular on this thread made any kind of statement that Mexico motorcycle travel is completely risk free and without concern, provide your address in that link and I'll send you a case of your favorite beer, and I will personally issue you a public nod that we haven't done our job here in our endeavors to keep perspective in balance.

***********************
Suffice to say while at once most of us are enthusiastic about Mexico, and post a lot of positives about it here, it is my contribution of opinion, meager as it is, that anyone who is old enough to ride a motorcycle is also bestowed with enough intelligence to be able to sift through the ocean of data and opinions out there about all things Mexico, of which this thread is but a very tiny part, and take that data and come to his/her own decision on whether riding (flying, sailing, bicycling) to Mexico is right or wrong for themselves. In the end, each person makes a decision that is right for themselves.

A final point: we're not selling tours here. If we were leading tours to Mexico for profit and claiming the destination, as well as riding a motorcycle, were risk free, that might be an interesting discussion. But I'd bet even Skip at Motodiscovery doesn't guarantee that.

Let me say what an excellent community we have on ADV and thanks for keeping the soup on all these years. Many of us have favorite parts of the banquet table you set for us, and we appreciate all the work you do in keeping it warm.

Tricepilot
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:24 PM   #12844
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Well said Trice.

Seems to me if an individual encountered violence down here they should visit this thread and share their experience.

A legal threat to close the thread? Who does that benefit?

I'm going to have my lawyer demand the Oil threads are taken down. I used vegetable oil as advised by one inmate and now I'm being enveloped by a constant smell of french fries when I ride and I think I'm being stalked by Ronald McDonald.

IMHO YMMV
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:07 PM   #12845
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[QUOTE=PirateJohn;20664708]Jack, you might review the comments about bandits and carjackers around Alamos. I wouldn't discourage you from going there, but be aware that there may be some troubles on that little road between Alamos and el Fuerte. Also, someone on one of the RV forums discussed a recent pickup theft but it sounds like someone targeted the man's truck specifically./QUOTE]

Alamos is safe. They just had a billion (hyperbole) people there for 2 weeks at the end of January for the big music festival. And yes, the road to el Fuerte has been written about here several times. The incident happen the last week of March a year ago. No other incidents I have heard of since which doesn't mean there have not been any. I know the riders and heard the stories 2 days later in person.

I also heard about the pickup truck. It was quite new, 4 wheel drive and the owner, who has lived in Mexico for many many years had geo tracking on it and knows where it is high up in the sierra. The story is that the police and the military are not interested in going after it.

Disclaimer: This post is opinion. Read the State Dept warnings about Mexico travel. Read them carefully. They are opinion as well.
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Turkeycreek screwed with this post 02-06-2013 at 04:17 PM Reason: Legal
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:20 PM   #12846
MikeMike
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I'm gonna lawyer myself up.

I have absolutely no idea why, other than it is Thursday.

I can say that I'll be on the road early tomorrow heading to Cordoba (if it's Friday, it must be Cordoba) with the Mystery Rider to meet another rider.

Red Bulls at dawn. I think I'll sue myself for having too good a time. Xoxocotla...that is the cool thing about Mexico, you can ride places before you learn how to pronounce them!
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:59 PM   #12847
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Thanks Baldy. You're a good man.
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:29 PM   #12848
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Sticky?

Sorry boys. WTF is a sticky and why is important? There is a lot of jargon that I just plain am not interested in or don't have time for... this inside baseball stuff is a load of crap when there is so much real stuff to deal with. IMNSHO.
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:47 PM   #12849
Craneguy
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Originally Posted by rockymountainoyster View Post
Sorry boys. WTF is a sticky and why is important? There is a lot of jargon that I just plain am not interested in or don't have time for... this inside baseball stuff is a load of crap when there is so much real stuff to deal with. IMNSHO.
It's not a secret. A sticky is a thread that stays at the top of the list in a section of the forum. It's usually the rules or a thread that contains useful information.
Apparently there's too much banter here now so now we'll just have to keep it at the top with misleading information and by comparing topes.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:02 PM   #12850
acejones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldy View Post
Hey folks,

I got a legal notice about this thread, couldn't tell if it was from a lawyer or individual, who said they were subject to violence when they went. The complaint was that some posters created a false sense of security. The ask was to have the thread removed or put a disclaimer in each post.

I don't want to remove it because it seems like a really important topic and a lot of knowledgeable people have spent a lot of time weighing in. And I don't have a way to put a disclaimer in each post and anyway I wouldn't want to editorialize your posts. So I guess the thing to do is make you aware that some people feel you're giving a false sense of security and you might want to add a disclaimer.

Thanks,
Baldy
Hey Baldy,
As Trice pilot said; thanks for weighing in here. As to whether or not the contact was from a lawyer is interesting. I think lawyers should have disclaimers as to their ability, veracity, etc.
This is an important thread as you know and motorcycle riding is inherently risky, even in your own driveway. I think everyone riding one agrees. The sticky is sure a handy way of accessing useful info quickly. That said; Thanks for supporting our interests.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:11 PM   #12851
Craneguy
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Oh, by the way, I'm setting up a legal defence fund for MikeMike.

Donations by PayPal to craneguy@....

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Old 02-06-2013, 06:46 PM   #12852
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Sticky etc.

OK, maybe I get the sticky part but how many of you know what a C-47 clip is and what is it used for... jargon that does not communicate well in even a limited audience public forum is worthless, it does not communicate, it alienates.
I have personally found this forum very helpful. Thousands of people go to Mexico every year in all kinds of vehicles. This place is great for learning a bit about the joys and sorrows of riding in Mexico. Caveat viajero. Can we use that lawyer as the landing zone for tope jumps? Maybe I will have a different song to sing when I finish my ride in Mexico in April. That chapter has yet to be written. If you live in a big city like LA and listen to the traffic reports there are motorcycle accidents with people just trying to get to work everyday. Some of them are fatal. Riding a motorcycle is inherently dangerous, especially in a place where they allow you to split lanes but the car drivers think it is illegal and just want to whack you for getting away with something. Question the whiner's values not the thread's usefulness. Some people will look for any excuse to cover their seriously sorry ass's total inadequacy and lack of preparedness.
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:04 AM   #12853
tricepilot
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Question the whiner's values not the thread's usefulness. Some people will look for any excuse to cover their seriously sorry ass's total inadequacy and lack of preparedness.
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:37 AM   #12854
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A big plus juan for the Oyster.
Question the whiner.
Grill the whiner.
Get the whiner in a small room and shine a light in their face for hours.
Deny them sleep, and food.
And then...waterboard the whiner!

And that will take care of that.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:30 AM   #12855
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Sitting on the beach in Zipolite right now having breakfast and coffee. ;)
Sitting in Creel right now having breakfast and coffee
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