Camping w/o paying

[Cliff-77]

Only time i pay to camp is when i need a hot shower& it's very nice setting,otherwise i camp free in the boonies.

[Mongle]

I'm going to stir the fire here

Let me start by saying I have never camped anywhere I had to pay so I haven't cheated the system.

BUT! We are talking about STATE and NATIONAL parks right? We already paid for them...it is called taxes. I understand there are upkeep fees for showers, toilets and such, but why not just charge for those things? I have a hard time paying for something twice; especially when it is nothing more then a patch of dirt to lay my head.

My last state park experience didn't go so well: We were riding street bikes in the NC mountains and heard there was a cool river and waterfall in one state park ( on 181 north of blue ridge) so we decided to stop and get some pictures. When we pulled in there wasn't a booth or anything, but there was a sign talking about a fee for camping, rvs and such. We just drove in, parked and walked down to the river. We spent 15-20 minutes and were on our way out. Some guy claiming to be a park ranger came storming up to us about being paid. We tried explaining we just took some pics and were leaving but he wouldn't let it drop saying there is a fee and we had to pay it. When we refused he started saying he was going to call the cops. Well, what he didn't know was one of my friends was a cop (and intimidating at 6'4" 240lbs) He spoke up and told him to go ahead and call and we would be more then happy to tell them he was keep us there against our will ( I think that was just some bullshit he came up with off the hip). But the guy backed down and let us go.

Thinking back on it I think the guy was pocketing the money the way he backed down when we called his bluff on calling the cops. I think it was terrible he was trying to charge us a camping rate for 20min spent there. Not a great way to get return customers!

[machinebuilder]

Originally Posted by Mongle

I'm going to stir the fire here

Let me start by saying I have never camped anywhere I had to pay so I haven't cheated the system.

BUT! We are talking about STATE and NATIONAL parks right? We already paid for them...it is called taxes. I understand there are upkeep fees for showers, toilets and such, but why not just charge for those things? I have a hard time paying for something twice; especially when it is nothing more then a patch of dirt to lay my head.

My last state park experience didn't go so well: We were riding street bikes in the NC mountains and heard there was a cool river and waterfall in one state park ( on 181 north of blue ridge) so we decided to stop and get some pictures. When we pulled in there wasn't a booth or anything, but there was a sign talking about a fee for camping, rvs and such. We just drove in, parked and walked down to the river. We spent 15-20 minutes and were on our way out. Some guy claiming to be a park ranger came storming up to us about being paid. We tried explaining we just took some pics and were leaving but he wouldn't let it drop saying there is a fee and we had to pay it. When we refused he started saying he was going to call the cops. Well, what he didn't know was one of my friends was a cop (and intimidating at 6'4" 240lbs) He spoke up and told him to go ahead and call and we would be more then happy to tell them he was keep us there against our will ( I think that was just some bullshit he came up with off the hip). But the guy backed down and let us go.

Thinking back on it I think the guy was pocketing the money the way he backed down when we called his bluff on calling the cops. I think it was terrible he was trying to charge us a camping rate for 20min spent there. Not a great way to get return customers!

Was it a camping fee or a "day use Fee"..................personally I think the explosion in all of the fees and the inconsistant application of them is stupid.

BUT when the budgets for the parks and national forests are cut and then "local" fees are allowed all of the "local" superintendents try to make up the budget cuts. the fee's don't take into account that someone might only stop for a very short time take a couple pictures and move on.

On the other hand without the fee's there wouldn't be any money for basic maintenance and even more areas on public lands would be closed to the public

[clapped_r6]

Originally Posted by machinebuilder

On the other hand without the fee's there wouldn't be any money for basic maintenance and even more areas on public lands would be closed to the public

this reminds me of how the monies generated by the ORV tags here in WA don't actually go towards the ORV areas, and they're being closed down.

but that's a different thread

i feel that motorcycles get treated unfairly in respect to the "additional vehicle" fees, it's as if i'm subsidizing the mad max encampment down the way.

[catweasel67]

+1 on it being theft. You guys that don't pay are making it harder for the rest of us. You're why I see a lot of sites saying "no bikers". You're why I pay more for my night. You're why bikers have a negative stereo type.

[ABHulgan]

I do a lot of camping, be it on the bike, in the car, or with a backpack (and by the way, that 5th wheel or Greyhound RV ain't camping, it's RV'ing. Not even close), and user fees chap my ass too. When you're paying 20 or 25 per night, that's getting into Motel 6 territory. But, Motel 6 doesn't offer the natural 'amenities' that the woods offers. And occasionally you may find that a favorite spot has been 'improved' and price has increased accordingly. This happened to me in Moab this past fall.


On the other hand, you pull into the camp spot and set up your gear knowing about the fee. By choosing to camp there, you enter into an agreement, an obligation, whether you agree with the fees or not. Not honoring the agreement is stealing. Making a habit of it means that you are a thief. And having my hard-earned shit stolen several times, I have zero tolerance for a thief.

I wouldn't squeal if I saw you do it, but karma comes back around. Be good boys and girls, and play by the rules.

[olyflyer]

If you don't wanna pay, wild camp, and leave no trace

If you wanna pay, camp in the camping areas

Camping in camping areas? Is that really camping if you have a dunny (toilet) and a water tap on hand? I prefer undeveloped camping areas that you have to hike into, but in the US your population is quite big and threatens areas if there is no infrastructure in place, I guess I'm just lucky at the moment I live in a place where you can ride for days and see no one

oh and catweasel67 not just the no paying guys but guys who ride like idiots wrecking trails, loud exhausts... If you have a road legal bike can they really stop you going in, that doesn't sound legal to me but..?

[duck]

I camped at Bodega Bay once. Showed up at 11pm. Was ready to go in the morning by 6am. Didn't pay and have always felt guilty about it. In January I stayed at a Sonoma County campground. I was the only person there, the host wasn't around and the place didn't have a self-registration station. Would've been an easy free night but I left a check. I still think it's weird that campground didn't have a place to self-register.

[NorthernTraveler]

Late last summer I camped in a FS primitive campground near Tiller, OR - it was posted as free.

There were pit toilets and picnic tables, nothing else.

Talked to the ranger in the morning.... the FS was planning on adding garbage cans.... and introducing a fee of something like $12 a night!

This place was wedged between a somewhat busy paved road and a river.... not exactly quiet or remote.

Personally, I would prefer it be left as is - no trash cans and no fee!

[Lone Rider]

I wonder if there's any Gov-run campground that is actually self-supporting/funded, no matter what fees are charged. The overhead and waste is ungodly.

[BikePilot]

I rarely camp in camp grounds, but when I do I usually pay. If I'm on a road trip alone I prefer to find unimproved grounds and camp in a very "tread lightly" manner. As far as calling it stealing and all, that's a bit of a stretch. I'd be willing to be that most folks here are paying far more than their share of the taxes... Perhaps a more useful argument in favor of paying up is to avoid making bikers less popular than we already are.

[Hootowl]

Forest Service campgrounds in the west used to be (mostly) $5-8.

Since the FS has contracted out the management of many campgrounds to for profit companies the camping fees have risen to too high a level.

Higher fees affect low income people more than middle or upper class people, perhaps limiting their ability to enjoy camping at campgrounds and forcing them to free, dispersed camping.

Because of the trash and human waste I see at many dispersed camp sites, I expect the FS & BLM attempt to restrict free camping in the future.

Richard

[EdOriginal]

I camped probably 40 times in the past 2 yrs. Litter (paper, beer bottles and cans) and crapping in walkways at all campsites it a major cost factor for private land owners, state and federal campgrounds.

Our tax dollars go to federal and state parks, rarely if ever do our tax dollars go for maintaining facilities at campgrounds. I have a National Park Lifetime pass and have been to most of the Natl Parks and don't recall ever seenig free camping sites that have any facilities. But I'll stay in a Motel-6 before paying more than $20.00 to camp.

Some state parks (such as Nebraska and Iowa, I know of) AND private campgrounds have started banning bikers from campsites due to the litter, trash, and Harley/Davidson type LOUD PIPES.

Another one that gets in my craw is camping on PRIVATE PROPERTY without permission, especially private or public cemeteries, (that shows no class at all) and farmers fields...and then litter. I have some land and offered to let campers (relatives) camp and hunt on the property....after having to pick up their trash and beer bottles myself I finally had to put up "No Trespassing" signs.

Like everything it is about 5% of the crowd that does the littering and crapping, and run up the cost for everyone else.

[hugemoth]

The only national park I know of that has free camping with facilities is Death Valley. A couple of the free campgrounds have picnic tables, water, outhouses, garbage and recycling containers. One has flush toilets, tables, water, garbage, recycling.

Q

Originally Posted by EdOriginal

I have a National Park Lifetime pass and have been to most of the Natl Parks and have never seen free camping sites that have any facilities.

[Jamie Z]

Originally Posted by hugemoth

The only national park I know of that has free camping with facilities is Death Valley.

Buffalo National River which is administered by the National Park Service waives the camping fee during the off-season months. Campgrounds are pretty basic, but most have bathrooms and trash containers. I don't know if the bathrooms are locked during the off-season, though I suspect they are,

Originally Posted by Ed

Another one that gets in my craw is camping on PRIVATE PROPERTY without permission, especially private or public cemetaries, (that shows no class at all)

This could be a thread all its own. Oh, and it's cemeteries with three Es.

Jamie