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Old 03-05-2010, 07:56 PM   #16
Pro_Marinero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting32
FWIW
the 01 321 (if it still has the stock shock) takes a taperd spring, check out eurodirt, in silt colorado (http://www.thewhimsicalwagon.com/eurodirt/). I bought all 3 springs I have had over the years from that guy, good guy. Another source could be, ol Adrian at http://www.lewisportusa.com/

I have had the 99 321, an 01 321 and then the 04 300 pro and my current 06 pro. the springs cost about 120 I think, which of course means I bought 3 different springs over the years. they also have stronger front fork springs available. I simply added to the springs in the forks and run heavier oil in the compression fork, really lightweight in the rebound fork.

I wish I had saved the ones I bought over the years, Id offer to sell you them... but all I have is a collection of stock ones that I replaced, lol.
I appreciate the info. I'll give them a call. The guy I normally use is striking out on finding stuff and I would really like to stick with him, but I may have to move on.
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Old 03-08-2010, 09:40 AM   #17
Sting32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borgmanr
Thanks Pro

Brew and Sting.....I believe you have a problem....too many bikes. You only have one ass to not put on those bikes- care to sell to someone trying to get into the game

OK, you have all been helpful so I have a new bike deal to pose. I had a guy contact me about a 2001 Montesa Cota 315 for $1800 that he says is in great condition. I have yet to see it, but assuming he means mechanically and not just cosmetically is this worth it in the opinions of those in the know.
Borg,

Im gonna have to instruct you to re-read my post, noting the "had" in there right at the start!

Im actually bike poor at the moment, we have 4 riders in the family, 3 bikes... my 15 yo son who lost interest seems to have decided it might be time to try again. Unfortunately we have given the use of HIS bike to the the kid that is dating his older sister. So now I get to be like Team Honda and see who will work harder to ride the 06 125 pro, lol!

That older bike doesnt sound unreasonable to me for a beginer. note that my riders are amatuer or better, and the kids are light body type, so the older montessa just isnt in my scheme of things for us, but could be just the ticket for you.

I have some insight to share, there will be "T.M.I.", and I get long winded, so browse onto other threads if you get too bored...


just so you can see where I come from:

From an age of 5, I have been riding motorcycles with my dad and brother, by age 6 Dad had discovered Trials. This was roughly 1973 ish. by 1974 we had completely changed our riding thoughts to trials, I was given a TY80 trials bike to replace my XR75 honda. It is a totally different mindset. My brother who loves to ride motocross still, never took to it, But dad & I did, my brother, he still races in Colorado, he's 51 if my math is right.

I live to, & love to compete at trials. I would venture to say that I live in the best state for trials, Kansas, for at least one aspect, we ride ALL year round, we dont fight the enviro whako's you do in major population areas/ states. And many states take time off for hot or cold months. we dont, you know the only meet that was ever called at AVTA (since it was founded in 1970-something, was because that sunday AM there was a sheet of ice on the roads and it was -20f, it was because we didnt want to risk people's lives on the highways really. Otherwise the trials is on.

So you might say Im a die hard Trials rider! Well, in the mid 80's I graduated from HS, and trials tapered off by the 90's I got married and trials was over, lack of time and money. I got divorced in 02, started looking to buy a nice used bike, took up trials again.

I was in your shoes, but again my goals were MOST LIKELY much different from yours. I couldnt wait to start COMPETING again.

Since all I had at the time was an '80 Sherpa T and dad had his '76 version, that we still rode and still played trials around the farm with. I actually took the old Bul to a trials, and was instantly shown that I was in a terrible disadvantage with everyone else on new bikes.

Anyway, I had to re learn what bikes were out there, and which one I would want. Rememeber Im not a really a beginner trials rider now, although in some respects I was.

So, I went back to AVTA a time or 2 and rode peoples bikes. I liked the montessa 315 at the time, as well as the gasgas 321 (the 99 model). I bought a 99 321 from a different club's rider in Missouri (MATT is the club's name). When the bike got home, dad was interested, in fact he was pushing me to start trials again.

longer story short, I work 8-5, he's a retired farmer, still farts around on the family farm... so he had time to play with my 321 while I was at work, long enough to decide to get him one (the 01 321) and start riding again with me. The 321's were the closest to what we had in the sherpa-t, a big grunting big cc bike, with the new jump-a-rock monoshock suspension. I worked to detune the 321 even more, thicker base gasket, a fatter jet in carb, all made this bike more like my Bul.

Now it is 8 years later and frankly quite a few bikes have called our garage home over the years. Dad is now 74 and still rides a LOT, travels to ride trials now! in 07 he rode the nationals. in 08 he broke his collarbone getting ready for the nationals (which at his age doesnt want to heal). He swears (and I believe him) that the newer bikes are the best way to go, lighter better etc.. but again, your probably not 74, nor thinking to ride the nationals soon.

So, would I buy that montessa for 1800? I don't know it is a great deal but it could be a good deal IMHO; if I was in your shoes, and I am only assuming a "kinda want to see what it is about" mindset. My brother might be more like you, we did sell him our older 04 gasgas pro last year, hoping he'll get started soon. Family pricing wouldnt be fair to post here you know... I still feel that the 04 would be worth close to 2500 for pricing. 04-08 are similiar bikes, with year to year tweaks, so the 04 is still pretty viable bike.

Is it the deal of the century? I dunno, I think you get a good deal now and again, 1800 doesnt sound all bad, probably a little high but who's gonna squabble over a couple hundred, a beat up version could cost 1200 but need 400 in parts.

Sure that 06 pro for $ 2500 that the MATT rider posted up on page 1, pissed me off {joke}, cause I hoped my 06 is worth > 3000 when all cleaned back up, so I can combine the money I been saving to get the '10 raga. Oh well.

(Hey xrmattaz) See you soon, @ Ken's place!!! (check that, same weekend as our club, Shame on you MATT riders!!! LOL)

Sting32 screwed with this post 03-08-2010 at 09:55 AM
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:13 AM   #18
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Very nice post. I was going to argue with you that New Mexico was actually Trials Heaven, then I got to the point that you do not have enviro-whackos to deal with much in your riding areas. Took the wind out of my sails, that's for sure. Freakin' Prius-driving bunnyhuggers......
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:37 AM   #19
leanin
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Hi Sting,
I was able to figure out who you are thru the autobiography. Your dad and several of his AVTA competitors are an inspiration to us 45+ yr old "young bucks". I rode with him the day before the last NEOTT event. He credited his lightweight '09 GasGas for keeping him competitive. But, after watching him ride, I expect he would've won our Sr Am class regardless of what he was riding. He sure is smooth. I didn't see him after the event, tell him congrats on the win.

Charles
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Old 03-09-2010, 09:06 PM   #20
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Say hi to your dad for me. I rode with him here in Austin the 20th and 21st of last month. We had a great time.
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Old 03-10-2010, 08:22 AM   #21
Jim Paley
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2001 315r

Iím new to trials, so take that into account when you consider my opinion.

I bought a í97 Montesa 315R a few months ago for $1500. Iíve been riding off road for about 27 years, but last year was my first introduction to a trials bike. Like many others, Iím hooked. I have not yet competed, but have been practicing to get myself ready for competition this season. $1800 for a 2001 sounds like a pretty good price compared with many of the prices I was finding in my area.

Iíve been pleasantly surprised with the í97. I expected it to be a significant disadvantage compared with the newer (í04 Ė í05) Shercoís that my friends are riding. No big deal, I thoughtÖ Iíll just work harder. After spending some time on the 315, then going back to the newer bikes; I donít think that my Monty is going to be any disadvantage for getting started. It may not be the best for the more advanced classes, but I plan to start from the bottom and will work my way up as my skill allows. My opinion may change if I ever make it to the higher classes. I suspect this bike will be just fine for me for the next couple years.

I believe the Montesa will make a great bike to start on. It isnít the latest and greatest, but it will do what you need it to.
Jim
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Old 03-10-2010, 08:10 PM   #22
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Jim the 315R is a great bike.
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:07 AM   #23
Sting32
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Ill mention you sent good will fellas! I wish I had gone with him, maybe next year...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Paley
Iím new to trials, so take that into account when you consider my opinion.

I bought a í97 Montesa 315R a few months ago for $1500. Iíve been riding off road for about 27 years, but last year was my first introduction to a trials bike. Like many others, Iím hooked. I have not yet competed, but have been practicing to get myself ready for competition this season.

(snipped for brevity)
We've had over 25 riders get started at trials over the years, some have kept at it, all from dad getting people interested. He's infectious that way. So over the last 30 years, we kinda have a theoretical gameplan.

I think you get to where you can balance the trials bike standing still for at least a 5 count, can do a figure 8 in the space about 1 lane road wide, & get to where you can put your front tire "EXACTLY" where you "want" it, when you want to, then you goto a meet and ride a competition, novice wont probably be too hard if you been riding bikes all those years.

Please note, the 3 things above are goals, not hard fast rules, especially the last one.

But you need to get to a competition before you practice a bunch of stuff, that may not help ya. Kinda like being the best free-throw shooter before they pick the starting lineup, if you cant dribble, it really doesnt matter as you will be on the bench, not being fouled if you get my drift.

Same with trials, I know people impress the hell out of themselves jumping logs, or rocks and ledges, but in the trials itself, cant make the turn involved in the section to jump the log, etc, etc,...

2 things you have to force yourself to do as a beginner, learn to take advice, passively-actively, and what to ignore . Passively is kinda complexely easy; you have to figure out (usualy it stand out fast) who the rider in your class that has 'trials' figured out, or rides best. You passively(watching)-Actively(get off your bike and shut up and learn):
1. learn from him as you watch how he looks at the section.
2: you watch how (WHERE) he rides the section.

Seems simple enough, but this will wear you out, mentaly as well as physically at first.

But my point is now, youre home, NOW you know what skills you need to work on! Was it turning that got you in trouble? was it the small hill you got stuck on? or was it the little log that bothered you. couldn't you keep your balance?

Otherwise I have seen people work too hard at things they assumed they would need to be able to do (not saying you wont need it).

My last bit of advice is: Get a buddy started, it is much more fun with friends learning and pushing each other.
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:26 AM   #24
leanin
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Great advice Sting.
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Old 03-12-2010, 07:19 AM   #25
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Great advice indeed. In fact, that is some of the best Noob trials advice I've ever read. Advice and teachings such as this would make an excellent sticky in the trials forum IMHO.
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Old 03-12-2010, 11:59 AM   #26
Jim Paley
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Awesome advice and greatly appreciated. Reading over the 3 points gives me a lot of confidence:
1. Balance: I could get close to a 5 count on my old PE175 before I even got on the 315R. I can stand still as long as I want to on the 315R. I still make mistakes and still require more practice, but it is going well. Iíve played around some with front wheel hops while standing still, but still have a long ways to go with them.
2. Figure 8: I should be good here too. The ground has been covered with snow since I got the bike. The only place to ride outside without trying to plow through several inches of snow was the driveways. I found figure 8ís in the driveway a great way to make sure I practiced turning left and right. The snow/ice on the driveways also forced me to be smooth while practicing, which I suspect may be helpful.
3. Front tire placement: This is one I had not thought to practice. It makes perfect sense, I just hadnít thought of it. Now Iíll have something new to work on tomorrow morning.
Having never competed in or even watched the novice class, I donít know exactly what to expect. These 3 basic items are a great help in preparing for my first season.
What I see as my biggest obstacle for the year is my own head. Even just going out to practice with friends is getting me nervous/excited enough that I have trouble doing anything right for the first Ĺ hour.
Jim
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Old 03-12-2010, 03:36 PM   #27
Sting32
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When my dad started trials in 70's he rode a year or so on a suzuki 250 green tank enduro bike that he had been racing the years before on... conversely, the Pro or at least Master class trials rider, that was at the the MATT trials 2 day (quarry cup '09) rode a section, that I had to ride as a Sr Expert (I scored a 2, 3, 3 in competiton that day). He cleaned it riding his wife's pampera...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Paley
Awesome advice and greatly appreciated. Reading over the 3 points gives me a lot of confidence:
1. Balance: I could get close to a 5 count on my old PE175 before I even got on the 315R.

My advice above and in this post, works for the people you meet that may or may not be as good a rider as you...
Remember, over 30+ years of this, I have met people that "have ridden motorcycles" and I have met people that "RIDE" motorcycles. there is a huge swing in "talent" no matter how they answered the question, .

What I worry about is trying to type a quick glimpse, without glossing over some fine points. balancing, turning, tracking (aka bike control)... on a trials bike is totally different at 0mph. I knew guys that could race past you at 50mph, could run over a quarter in a turn everytime or anything they wanted to, but at 0mph, couldnt get within a foot. In trials it is going to be just about as important to be on the right line, as being on the right line when racing, sure with some skills that come later you can readjust your line, just like MX guys to in mid air, but lets keep this simple for now.

Rule #1 of beginner trials, if it looks like you could get hurt trying this section TODAY, DO NOT TRY IT TODAY!!!
you will be back in a month to try more as you get better!

(I came back to edit this, this is the #1 rule no matter what class you try, from master to beginner.)

Many clubs around me, dont have enough new riders to have "Beginner sections" But most will make them if they know there will be beginner riders wanting to ride, that cant handle NOVICE sections...

Near me, (KS, OK, MO, and NE) novice is going to be like a harder "trail ride" made tricky. Many clubs the novice is easier enough to let beginners ride, just remember rule #1 above!!!

harder and tricky, this is different than being made "Dangerous". Most novice rides usually will have some kind of hill, a turn or 2, and possibly an obstacle, to cross, that unless you have NO BIKE CONTROL, should NOT even come close to risking anything but a brused ego, or elbow if you manage to fall akwardly. SOmetimes the "Loop" can be more frustrating for novices than the trials.

So if you are one of those people (like me) who likes an insight, here is another...

"What was the person who set up this section thinking...": (the novice class edit)
(In good terms, not the one you say when you fell off and got a five, lol...)

The trials master or section builder is an experienced, upper class trials competitor. But today, he has taken on the job of "extracting points" from all riders, without undue risk of your bodily injury.

Again for Novice sections, he's laying out the section, he wants you to drive along/over/around this hill, by these trees that he knows the main thing that will trip you up is balance, speed, and ability to put the front wheel where you need it to be. after you drive that, he's probably going to make you turn kind of sharp, and go around a tree or rock or something or 2, to prove your balance this far, wasn't a fluke. Novice obstacles will be about a normal railroad tie in size or manner at worst usually. Nothing too hard, usually well traveled (read not loose rocks and what have you). really, nothing in any one part of the section to make you squirm, but putting the turns, and everything i one section, it will make you work to go clean...

What is nice is, every trials the trials master has a natural "something" about trials that occurs without him even having to work at it. It is something for most of us to deal with: I mean, once we put up ribbons, for boundries, a start and a finish, you walk it a few times (you know you cant practice it or nothing before you ride for score). Well, that trail you can do in your sleep, all of a sudden becomes something your mind and body has to "beat" today. I laugh all the time, that I can ride over some things all day long in practice, but put up tape and have someone watch you, and you dab, five and what have you.

well, hopefully that will help... Lost my train of thoughts (I type so much slower than I think, by the time I get it typed then corrected, I forgot what I was trying to get across some days...) might follow up later...

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Old 03-15-2010, 12:58 PM   #28
brewtus
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I'm telling you boys and girls new to Trials- This is VERY good advice.


What do you think, Sting? It's own thread??
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:34 AM   #29
42mike
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Has already helped me with what should be obvious.
Sting, I am two hours away S of Topeka. You decide to have a "training" session for a noob let me know.
Thanks for the well written and easy to understand advice.
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Old 04-06-2010, 01:59 PM   #30
Sting32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42mike
Has already helped me with what should be obvious.
Sting, I am two hours away S of Topeka. You decide to have a "training" session for a noob let me know.
Thanks for the well written and easy to understand advice.
Mike!!! hope the email for you is right, I sent a note in your profile, on how to get in touch with me!

Trials this weekend (SATURDAY) at a farmhouse about 20 miles west of Leavenworth KS. Goto www.matt-trials.com and study/print out the map! Last I knew there are a few novices to ride with, Im bringing the novice son with me.

Then sunday we're going to ride at www.avtatrials.com, they have maps as well, the site is less than 5 miles south and west of Douglass Kansas!


PS, Ill send a PM in case it doesnt get to you I guess. Contact me, there are lots of people around, even one in topeka (right south of interstate 70) that drives to wichita each month, you could probably buddy up with!? Plus another outstanding rider, that occasionally comes down, lives in north topeka...

I think I have my 3 recent buddies almost ready to ride again this month at wichita, Fingers crossed.
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