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Old 07-29-2002, 03:22 PM   #16
Rubber Cow
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Med kit

I carry a kit on each bike and I took EMT courses at my local community college to know how to use the gear and to make certain that I wouldn't get my ass sued in the event that I did use it.
You can put together a simple (less expensive) kit at REI. The specialty stuff can be had at your local emergency supply shop or from a catalog shop like Gall's Inc.
http://www.galls.com
I carry most everything that has been mentioned but you should definitely carry:

-latex or nitrile gloves
-cpr mask
-Leatherman tool
-large trauma dressing
-several rolls of gauze
-piece of nylon webbing to use as a tourniquet
-sammy splint
-waterproof tape
-waterless hand cleaner or antibacterial/antiviral wipes
-matches

I also carry some meds:
-2 vicodin (enough to get me home even with broken bones)
-Benadryl for insect stings.
-Occuhist or Visine AC
-Claritin Readytabs for allergies
-Advil or Aleve for muscle aches and injuries
-Excedrin for headaches
-An Epi-stick for friends with bee sting allergies.

What I've mentioned is a MINIMUM kit. I also pack airways, butterfly bandages, Band-Aids, betadine/iodine soap concentrate.

The R100GSPD has a great storage compartment in the fuel tank. On the Adventure I carry all of my med gear in a small red stuff sack in the left saddlebag. If I'm off-road w/o the bags, I put the minimal kit in a Mountainsmith fanny pack with shoulder straps. I am looking at the Wolfman tool pouch for a med kit as well.
It's really important that you learn how to use this stuff correctly and expeditiously. Most of these items are easy enough to use but some can cause more harm that good if used incorrectly or at the expense of patient stabilization.
In the Bay Area UCSF and Stanford offer wilderness first-responder and first aid courses through the student activities centers. Cal Adventures at UCSF/UCB usually has them every six months and the emergency gear vendors usually attend to sell their wares.
Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Jorge
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Old 07-29-2002, 03:28 PM   #17
Chopperman
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Re: Med kit

The trainig is part of what I lack. Doesn't do a damned bit of good to have the fancy equipment if you don't know what the hell you are doing.

I'm looking in on the community college stuff now. REI might have some links to classes as well.



Quote:
Originally posted by Rubber Cow
I carry a kit on each bike and I took EMT courses at my local community college to know how to use the gear and to make certain that I wouldn't get my ass sued in the event that I did use it.
You can put together a simple (less expensive) kit at REI. The specialty stuff can be had at your local emergency supply shop or from a catalog shop like Gall's Inc.
http://www.galls.com
I carry most everything that has been mentioned but you should definitely carry:

-latex or nitrile gloves
-cpr mask
-Leatherman tool
-large trauma dressing
-several rolls of gauze
-piece of nylon webbing to use as a tourniquet
-sammy splint
-waterproof tape
-waterless hand cleaner or antibacterial/antiviral wipes
-matches

I also carry some meds:
-2 vicodin (enough to get me home even with broken bones)
-Benadryl for insect stings.
-Occuhist or Visine AC
-Claritin Readytabs for allergies
-Advil or Aleve for muscle aches and injuries
-Excedrin for headaches
-An Epi-stick for friends with bee sting allergies.

What I've mentioned is a MINIMUM kit. I also pack airways, butterfly bandages, Band-Aids, betadine/iodine soap concentrate.

The R100GSPD has a great storage compartment in the fuel tank. On the Adventure I carry all of my med gear in a small red stuff sack in the left saddlebag. If I'm off-road w/o the bags, I put the minimal kit in a Mountainsmith fanny pack with shoulder straps. I am looking at the Wolfman tool pouch for a med kit as well.
It's really important that you learn how to use this stuff correctly and expeditiously. Most of these items are easy enough to use but some can cause more harm that good if used incorrectly or at the expense of patient stabilization.
In the Bay Area UCSF and Stanford offer wilderness first-responder and first aid courses through the student activities centers. Cal Adventures at UCSF/UCB usually has them every six months and the emergency gear vendors usually attend to sell their wares.
Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Jorge
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Old 07-29-2002, 04:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by fish
[I also pack a pair of latex gloves just in case.
HTH.
Ditto

I carry a small back packing first aid kit with me when I travel. It is the same one I take kayaking and cross country sking. I don't carry one on my daily commute to work but I always keep latex gloves in my tank bag.
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Old 07-29-2002, 04:08 PM   #19
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Beeing a "Red Cross" DAT team leader, I'd also recommend you check with your local chapter, they have three levels of first aid available, and during my EMT tranining, several park rangers were getting the same tranining. To really make the most of the class room (and get an EMT certification), you will then have to invest several months onboard an ambulance. I have had a lot of hands-on experiance that does make a difference. But it all starts with some action... it's not enough to say, "I want to do it", pick up the phone (now) and enroll. Serriously, we are a high risk group and it's very likely that you will use some level of first aid, and as mentioned earlier, law-suite avoidance.

BTW- refeshers cources are only a few days, and also need to be done annualy.
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Old 07-29-2002, 04:14 PM   #20
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Hmph I must be stoopid. I'm only seeing CPR courses at my community colleges. no first aid/trauma/survival

BTW this kit seesm to cover about 90% of the gear? Looks like adding some maxipads, an emergency blanket and a penlight and it would be a goer.
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Old 07-29-2002, 04:35 PM   #21
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Re: Med kit

Quote:
Originally posted by Rubber Cow
-2 vicodin (enough to get me home even with broken bones)
Where do you get them? I was under the impression that they were prescription only?

Your list is amazingly complete. I wanna ride with you! :):

Seriously though, if one takes all the first aid gear one might need to deal with any situation, I could see that filling both side cases and most of a tankbag. There must be some "medium" sized kit, no?

And since this is the Safety Forum (tm), let's also remember that the gear you choose to wear and the way you choose to ride will definitely have an effect on your need to use a first aid kit. Wear full gear? Probably no roadrash. Don't go balls out down dirt roads? Probably won't wrap yourself around a tree. Etc.

I understand that since some of you guys are trained medics, you are carrying that gear mostly in the event you come across an accident and need to provide care. I think that's absolutely commendable. I'm not there yet. Not sure I'll ever be.
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Old 07-29-2002, 04:36 PM   #22
Rad
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The vast majority of us should only carry your basic care and comfort type of first aid gear. Most of what is listed in this thread is just that. Training is vastly more important than the first aid kit. There is nothing in the standard kits that will save a life other that bee stuff, etc. On the other hand, proper training can help you save your buddies life.

I carry my kit only as a minor injury repair/infection prevention kit so I can get myself or someone else back on the road.
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Old 07-29-2002, 05:19 PM   #23
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Kits

My kit is extremely basic, but is the basis for treating everything I am qualified to do with the training I have. Yes a Saqer splint would be nice and I would have given my eye teeth for a backboard last week. But with the space limitations on a bike only the basics are permitted.

Getting the training is an excellent idea, and riding with a squad to increase you exposure is even better. Being calm and doing the same things every time insures that you do not overlook anything. The only way to get there is with lots of practice.

I commend you guys for wanting to learn how to help others. see the safety forum is proving its merit already.

Way to go Freak.


PS the name still sucks.
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Old 07-29-2002, 05:43 PM   #24
Pinarretta
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Wilderness Medical Associates

These guys have some great courses on how to use all that stuff in your kit: http://www.wildmed.com/main.html

The Wilderness Advanced First Aid or the Wilderness First Response courses are excellent for anyone who wants to learn a ton of usefull stuff without going into the full EMT domain. Most city-bases first aid classes focus on 'calling 911 and waiting'. There are some harsh realitites to backcountry emergencies that these guys cover well.

Generally speaking you should only have stuff you know how to use or you run the risk of causing more harm than good. Of course in the backcountry you sometimes have to try whatever you can to get your buddy out.
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Old 07-29-2002, 05:55 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chopperman
Hmph I must be stoopid. I'm only seeing CPR courses at my community colleges. no first aid/trauma/survival
I have put two of my sons through EMT training. Your best start is the local volunteer fire house. From there they can point you in the right direction on where to find medical training locally.

To give you an idea, a commercial EMT course set up to provide you with a state EMT certificate if you pass the test is about $350 and a shit load of work - state tests are a intensive, 50 percent drop out rate on the course and less for the pass rate on the tests.

One of my kids was a Navy Corpsman and got his VA EMT while in highschool with the local volunteer fire dept. He now works in an ER and keeps me straight on shit and maintains my stash of oh shit meds.
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Old 07-29-2002, 05:58 PM   #26
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I wanna hear from Sig on this topic. Paging Dr. Sig...Dr. Sig, to the Trauma Ward please!
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Old 07-29-2002, 06:06 PM   #27
Chopperman
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I'm not worried about the oh shit meds...I hang with racers. Everybody has sched 4 carepackages in the med kits.

I'm not looking to be an EMT either. Just be a "trained civilian" so that I can take care of a bud, or even myself. not healed, just stabilized, treated for shock and have a good chance of surviving until help can get there. When I go offroad, I almost always go with another person, so that means should trauma happen, one is gonna have to go and get the vet.

this one looks to be the most complete for the price and size to my untrained eye

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commer...91&prmenbr=226
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Old 07-29-2002, 06:27 PM   #28
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Good discussion!
I highly recommend Nitrile Gloves over latex. Much tougher and they last a lot longer in your kit. Nothing like going for the gloves and finding holes in em from the heat.

I carry two, one for comfort and usually in my shaving kit (drugs, Neosporin, and the like) and a second one with a needle and thread and bandages and such. I wouldn't use the thread to sew you up but I would use the dental floss Better than bleeding to death...

Gerg
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Old 07-29-2002, 06:45 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gerg
I wouldn't use the thread to sew you up but I would use the dental floss Better than bleeding to death...

Gerg
Wow. Do you really think you could administer stitches in the field?

Thanks for the tip on Nitrile. I'll get some when I finish running through the 200ct. box of powderless latex gloves I got at costco.
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Old 07-29-2002, 07:00 PM   #30
Rubber Cow
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Re: Meds

I have asked physicians to write me prescriptions for 2 vicodin tablets at a time specifically for my med kits, same goes for epi-sticks. I bruised/cracked a rib on GS ride several years ago and I was still 250 miles from home. I'm grateful I had the Vicodin. I didn't enjoy the expansion joint-jostle on the way home but I did make it back.
Most docs understand that I'm not a junkie nor am I selling the stuff. It is a legitimate use of a legitimate product. I have mountaineering friends who have travel all over the world with syringes and vials of lidocaine for treating injured climbers. Again legitimate use of a legitimate product.
I have noticed docs who are unwilling to prescribe high-strength pain meds for nasty things like back pain because they are afraid of the patient becomming addicted. I yelled at one last month who refuse to give my girlfriend a script for 2days worth of vicodin to help with back pain.
Hell, my neurosurgeon gave me 100 Vicodin after my back surgery. When I raised the real concern of addiction he said he'd rather treat the addiction later than have me re-injure my spine due to me flinching in intense pain and muscle spasms. (It turns out I didn't take a single one because I didn'y have ANY pain.)

It's just like in the GSing crowd. Some docs are really self-absorbed self-protective assholes and others are capable of seeing the bigger picture and not going into hysterics when someone asks for some basic pain meds.
Besides, Vicodin, Tylenol#3, is nothing compared to some of the more exotic meds now used.
Lastly, I also try to pick up a few boxes of Paracetamol with 20 milligrams of codeine phosphate (Tylenol#2) when I'm in Europe. This stuff is sold over the counter with caffeine for migraines. The caffeine is nice because it counteracts the drowsiness caused by the codeine.

Anyway, I know med talk scares some people so I'll lay off now.
My last pearl of wisdom comes from an ex combat medic and wilderness medicine instructor that said the two MOST valuable items to carry in a med-kit are a well charged cellphone (providing you have AT&T not Sprint/Verizon) and a set of car keys.

Cheers,
Jorge
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