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Old 09-18-2003, 08:00 PM   #76
NAVIGATOR
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Know your capacities and limitations, help within the margins of your knowldege.

Trying to do more, usually will get mistakes on the scene, keep a cool head. Sometimes the best way to help is minimal action and fast reaction.

Be prepared with a basic first aid kit and on the basics of CPR and when riding with a group know who can help in case of an accident.
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Old 09-19-2003, 11:39 AM   #77
figment
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Don't ever take an accident lightly, especially if any speed above 20mph is involved. The victim can believe they are OK with internal injuries and bleed out. Also, swelling takes a while before it causes pain, so the victim may be relatively pain free for the first few minutes. MAKE them stay still even if they think they are OK.

Have everyone park ahead of (away from) the accident, not behind it. This leaves room for emergency vehicles when they arrive.

Have someone flag traffic. Get everyone off safely the road and watch for oncoming traffic.

Do NOT remove the victims helmet. (you may cause more damage)

If the helmet absolutely MUST be removed, and I'm talking only when the person is not breathing, use two people. One person will stradle the patient. Do NOT sit on the person. Work your hands into the helmet as the other person is pulling the helmet FROM BOTH SIDES away from the persons head so the other person's hands can be inserted careful not to move the patient's head, it isn't possible to NOT move the head but try to as little as possible. If at all possible, try to get your hands in enough to cup the ears. Once that's done, hold the head firmly as the other person gently, slowly, and methodically works the helmet off. Once the helmet is off, continue to hold the head in position (C-Spine). The other person will come over and place his/her hands over yours and take over C-Spine as you slide your hands out. Once this is done you can dismount and start CPR using the jaw-thrust maneuver. Most good CPR courses will cover helmet removal during the course. Practice it at home.


Broken ribs and collarbones are common. Check to make sure the victim can breathe. [What should be done if not?]


Move the victim as little as possible.

Have a cell phone. 911 starts LEO and EMS response. LEO is usually first responder.

Have a rescue vehicle for two bikes lined up. I heard there is an AMA registry for this. (see next)

Someone needs to be with the victim in the emergency vehicle to handle the contacts and logistics.

Do not relay anxiety, calm the victim.


http://www.bikesafe.co.uk/bikesafe/f.../firstaid.html
List of contents:

1 abdominal pad 12cm x 22cm
2 sterile gauze pads 10cm x 10cm
4 non-adherent pads 7.6 x 10.2cm
1 sterile compress bandage 10cm
2 rolls Cling™ Wrap
2 Triangular Bandages
1 roll 2.5cm x 4.6m waterproof adhesive tape
1 Water-jel burn dressing 5cm x 15cm
3 pairs of medical examining gloves
6 Q-tips
1 Scissors, surgical, 15cm stainless steel
3 Sting stop prep pads
4 BZK antiseptic towelettes
4 Povidone-Iodine prep pads
1 Knuckle bandages, 3.8cm x 7.5cm, sterile
1 sterile fingertip bandages, 4.4cm x 5 cm
4 sterile elastic adhesive bandages 2.2cm x 7.5cm
2 Butterfly closures
1 Rubber elastic bandage, 7.5cm x 4.6m
1 Wire splint
1 CPR Airway
1 "Call Police" banner
In the Road Rash Bag:

2 Bactigras™ treated antibacterial gauze packs
2 rolls of Cling™ Wrap
6 BZK antiseptic towelettes
6 Povidone-Iodine prep pads
4 non-adherent pads 7.6 x 10.2cm
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Old 09-19-2003, 06:41 PM   #78
Law Dawg (ret)
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Help when you can.

I noticed a bunch of posts fretting over the lawyer junk. I say forget about it and help when you can. If the jerk or their family wants to sue I'll wait for The Higher Court to settle it. Besides, if you take it to the box (jury) imagine how a panel would feel about the jerk or family pulling that greedy stuff. Now, this all depends on your use of common sense. Most of you seem reasonably sound....do not do more than you are trained to.

As to the mega kits posted, WOW, simply amazing! I certainly hope if I smash up bad one of these fellows is at hand. For the rest of us K.I.S.S. is the concept. Remember the ABCs (airway,breathing,and circulation). Your victim must be able to breath, do what ever it takes to make that happen (AB covered). Circulation is a ditto. The heart is first priority here. If that is not a problem then bleeding must be controlled, fix it. Shock will kill next, keep them warm and keep blood flowing to the head area (do what it takes, C covered). I know this is a simplistic explanation but anyone who has first responder training knows exactly what I am talking about. Also, anyone who has done this for a living knows that the text book only works in class. When you get on scene there is always going to be a SNAFU and often a FUBAR involved. If this simplistic explanation dusts you off...TAKE A CLASS. If you have not taken a Red Cross First Responder class (at minimum) you better just phone someone like me (911).

Common sense is the ticket. I'll stop to help every time because that's what people like me do and I could not look into the mirror again if I could help and rode on. Improvise, adapt, and overcome this is what my kit does in my hands.

RWLWFWH
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Old 09-21-2003, 03:57 PM   #79
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Doc Riverz

Do you actually carry the kit pictured on your bike,or do you have a smaller one? Dude, I am really impressed with your set up. If the excrement hits the rotary blade you would be the man!

RWLWFWH
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Old 09-21-2003, 07:03 PM   #80
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Re: Doc Riverz

Quote:
Said Law Dawg:
Do you actually carry the kit pictured on your bike,or do you have a smaller one? Dude, I am really impressed with your set up. If the excrement hits the rotary blade you would be the man!

RWLWFWH
Dawg
I guess this is the post that some will not let die.

No thank you, I don't want to ride with someone who has a kit that duplicates the bandages in the ED for two reasons:

1. The enormous kit means that they never really go anywhere because they have no adddtional room for the necessary gear to actually go on a legitimate trip.

2. But mostly because, armed with a bunch of bandages and some ointment, there will be the tendancy for untrained people or minimally trained people to play doctor at the side of the road and deprive the victim of their one slim chance for life and that is to be rapidly transported to an appropriately staffed treatment facility.

The non-physician with the "great set-up" may well be your worst enemy.

I carry very little and stop infrequently because I, actually, know what i am doing.

LR
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Old 09-21-2003, 07:55 PM   #81
Law Dawg (ret)
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LVR

You may be an expierienced MD or what ever, but you are not the only one who knows what they are doing. Give me a combat corpsman/medic any day I am trashed and possibly 75 miles from services. I do not whip out my skills(admittedly limited as they are) for just anything and if help is available, I"ll wait (if I can). But what do you expect one to do with serious arterial bleeding or sucking chest wound during the time it takes for an ambulance to arrive? I am a Deputy Sheriff and often encounter situations that require help NOW. Some of us do not have the luxury to wait. It would be nice to never have to do CPR on a bleeding puking victim or keep blood off my nice uniform by waiting for a professional.

Works in theory sir, but the real world for some of us isn't theoretical. This string is for Adventure riders, do the math.

RWLWFWH
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Old 09-21-2003, 08:13 PM   #82
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I really like the courses offered by Wilderness Medicine. I was certified WFR and WEC, time to go back and get re-certified, but the knowledge is still there. Their courses are good for the adventurer since they focus on improvising with what you have available. I would like to take their WEMT course if I can swing that much time off.
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Old 09-22-2003, 12:12 AM   #83
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Re: Re: Doc Riverz

Quote:
Said LVR:
...
The non-physician with the "great set-up" may well be your worst enemy.

I carry very little and stop infrequently because I, actually, know what i am doing.

LR
Funny, I was (replenishing) my "kit" and was noting how small it actually is. (Ortlieb first aid) but it's packed tight... and mounted on the tail bag for ANYONE to access quickly.

Your remark remind me of the "medics" that would come after a crash at the track... I'd scramble to my feet to get out of there before they come after me with that NYLON BRUSH.. Ohhh I still feel the pain of the brush as they scraped out the rocks form my hips... shoot. Now I just leave the rocks in my hips... to match the rocks in my head.
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Old 09-22-2003, 08:58 AM   #84
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Re: LVR

Quote:
Said Law Dawg:
Works in theory sir, but the real world for some of us isn't theoretical. This string is for Adventure riders, do the math.
RWLWFWH
Dawg
I keep my personal and professional lives separate, so we won't compare credentials, but let me tell you that I live at the absolute opposite end of the "theory-real life" spectrum.

As far as the "math" goes, I was there for the creation of this branch of "math", I've contributed to the evolution of this "math" for decades, I teach this "math" and I live this "math" on a daily basis.

Yeah, I've done the math and I'm the one that gets to try to salvage victims not only from their initial injuries, but from the errors of well-intended, "frequently wrong, but never in doubt" passer-bys.

As far as I'm concerned, this thread is dead.

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Old 09-22-2003, 01:37 PM   #85
figment
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Re: Re: LVR

Quote:
Said LVR:
...

As far as I'm concerned, this thread is dead.

LVR
good.
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Old 09-22-2003, 02:15 PM   #86
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Re: Re: Re: LVR

[QUOTE]Said LVR
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as I'm concerned, this thread is dead.
LVR
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Said figment:
good.
I agree w/ figgy and thanx for sharing LVR *



* you can unsuscribe from a thread through your control panel
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Old 09-22-2003, 05:39 PM   #87
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Re: Re: LVR

Quote:
Said LVR:
As far as I'm concerned, this thread is dead.
Just like the poor rider who will bleed to death on the side of the road because his friends listened to some doctor's advice about waiting for the ambulance?
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Old 09-22-2003, 08:25 PM   #88
Law Dawg (ret)
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Hopefully if one of us is ever down and bleeding when you pass by you will bless us with your help and massive knowledge. Hope you don't decide to keep your business and personal life apart at that point. As to a dead string: any string can be dead for anyone as soon as he does not click on it. Careful of the door when you go,perfeser, as it may strike you on your six.

This string has been good 411 on improving equipment and skills in first aid and I appreciate the contributors taking the time.

P.S.
I'm not ashamed of my profession and so do not hide it. Know when Y'all ride with me I've got your back and hope for the same in return.

Thanks Y'all
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Law Dawg (ret) screwed with this post 09-22-2003 at 08:31 PM
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Old 10-22-2003, 08:40 PM   #89
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Just as a note for the unwilling: My mother dropped dead on a sidewalk 13 years ago. >45 minutes of CPR by a well trained husband and wife team. Supoposedly unheard of, but she survived.

Still drives.

Now has the best life-saver kit - an installed defibulator (ACid) unit, She went into V-fib twice sin ce then - both this year. Didn't even pass out.

Anyway, try to save a life, if you can.
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Old 10-23-2003, 04:43 PM   #90
doc riverz
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Re: Doc Riverz

Quote:
Said Law Dawg:
Do you actually carry the kit pictured on your bike,or do you have a smaller one?
No, that is my car kit. My moto kit fits in one large Ziplock bag.
Quote:
Dude, I am really impressed with your set up. If the excrement hits the rotary blade you would be the man!
RWLWFWH
Dawg
Thanks for the kind words.




The thread is never dead...
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