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Old 03-18-2010, 04:22 PM   #46
Hannda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motornoggin
I have to finance primary vehicle, but I still talk price, not payment. If you talk payment alone, you're ripe for a good screwing.

Our local GM dealer is one of those one price, no dickering places. I do my homework beforehand and am always treated well and I know I got a good price. Last one I bought there took less than an hour.
I tried talking price with a salesman one time, when we were buying Laurie a Jeep, and the salesman told me he wasn't allowed to have a calcuator at his desk. It. Was. Forbidden. He was just supposed to keep running back and forth between you and the sales manager until you capitulated and took the car. I told him what we would pay, what we would put down and what those payments would be. Told him to take it to his sales manger and come back with a yes or no answer, no counter offer. I thought he was going to cry. When he came with "no" I shook his hand and started to leave. He asked that we wait. He took the same offer in again and came back with "yes."

It amazes me that people allow it to be such a game. It's only a game if you agree to play.
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Old 03-18-2010, 04:32 PM   #47
Motornoggin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannda

It amazes me that people allow it to be such a game. It's only a game if you agree to play.
I hate it and won't do it any more. It amazes me how many dealers can't be honest, straightforward and upfront. I feel like I need a shower after car/bike shopping most of the time. Bleh...

It's to the point I won't even go look at new toys because of the slimey salespeople who won't take no for an answer.
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Old 03-18-2010, 04:35 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffy109
So let's make sure I have this right. You called a dealer and asked them about buying a car. They didn't get back to you as fast as you wanted and then they did, they offered you a price that was less than the price they listed. Oh yeah... that's a great reason to jump on the ol' interweb and spout biggotry against tens of thousands of hard working people who have chosen a profession that pays the mortgage and feeds the family.

Do I have it right or did I miss a detail?
Slander would be a better choice...



























if they weren't car salesmen.
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Old 03-18-2010, 05:36 PM   #49
infoatnmmoto
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Fuck that guy. I can get you that same car with similar miles for $39K even.
Give me a call.
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:47 PM   #50
RedRocket
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdub1242
They are the lowest form of life on earth.


Sorry, I know I'm stating the obvious but F&#@ I hate them!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdub1242
I have sent them several offers online. I have a friend that sells/brokers for a BMW dealership so he has access to their prices.
Let me explain it to you. If you've sent SEVERAL offers, and you've obviously been turned down on all of them, then your offers aren't high enough.
If you don't like the guy's price, then go buy somewhere else.
It sounds like your friend doesn't even want to do business with you.

RedRocket screwed with this post 03-18-2010 at 06:57 PM
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Old 03-19-2010, 06:10 AM   #51
cliffy109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannda
I tried talking price with a salesman one time, when we were buying Laurie a Jeep, and the salesman told me he wasn't allowed to have a calcuator at his desk. It. Was. Forbidden. He was just supposed to keep running back and forth between you and the sales manager until you capitulated and took the car. I told him what we would pay, what we would put down and what those payments would be. Told him to take it to his sales manger and come back with a yes or no answer, no counter offer. I thought he was going to cry. When he came with "no" I shook his hand and started to leave. He asked that we wait. He took the same offer in again and came back with "yes."

It amazes me that people allow it to be such a game. It's only a game if you agree to play.
And you played it! You played the freakin' game. When you stop doing it, they will stop.

Do you know why they didn't accept your offer right away? Because when a deale does, the customer feels like they left money on the table and often the deal goes sour. It is called a "courtesy bump" and it helps most customers feel better about the deal. They are happier than if the offer was just accepted. If the salesman runs into the 1 in 100 customer who wasn't lying about his offer, its easy enough to still accept it. The only drawback is that the customer often runs straight to the internet to berate the dealer, salesman and the experience.
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Old 03-20-2010, 08:44 PM   #52
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I am going over to the dark side....

Car salesman are just like you, they are employees of a company that has policies and procedures that they must follow. It has not always been this way! In the day, when you went into a dealership there would always be a couple of old pros, guys that had been salesman in the same store for years. Raised their families, bought their houses, sent their kids to college and were solid reliable members of their communities. When I first sold cars, we averaged about $100 a car in commission, now 40 years later, with inflation taken into account, salemen should be making about $546.00 a car. In fact they are making about $250 a car. This is why you can't find educated professional salesmen in a mainline car store. in the 60's the markup on a domestic car was 20 -25%, and the luxury marks as much as 35%, and a salesman was paid 25% - 35% of the gross profit. Now, markup ranges from as little as 7% and to a high of 20% and the salespeople get 15 -25%. I made as much money as a salesman in 1972 as most salesman make today, and that doesn't include any adjustment for 40 years of inflation. The other thing that happened is the advent of the "desk system". In the day, you would sit with a salesperson and work out the whole deal, and do the paperwork. Now, the salesperson has no authority to answer any questions regarding price or payment, he has to run back and forth to the manager, the man in the little office that you can't see! It reminds me of the Wizard of Oz, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain". Anyway, All of these techniques are because and designed to overcome the increased information available to consumers. No other industry in the world, not one, has it's costs and wholesale pricing published and readily available to anyone that wants to see it. Most customers say they don't want to play the game, but it is the customers that have created the game. If customers simply paid the price that is being asked, the entire process would be clear and simple, and everyone would get an equal, therefore, fair deal.

But the question still remains, what is fair, and what is a good deal? The one you got, because you agreed to it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. The dealer didn't make you sign, he didn't twist your arm, he didn't threaten your family! In the end, YOU made the decision and you are responsible for your deal. If you didn't like it, you shouldn't have signed! It's really that simple! The dealer has to make a profit in order to stay in business, and you don't want him to! Are you being fair to him when you say you want to pay only $200 over invoice on a $30000 product? What sort of profit margin to you have in your industry? Would your business survive without a profit? Would you invest $30000 to make only a 6 tenths of one percent return, no I don't think so, but you think a dealer should do it? And on top of that, you think he should be happy to have an argumentative, aggressive, uncooperative customer accross the desk from him, or worse, just on the phone asking for "his best price". Why would he give it to you, you're not there, and you most likely won't actually buy the car over the phone. You still have to go sit and sign. It's a no win situation for the dealers, and they have only the weak willed dealers among themselves to thank for it. Look at how Harley has been able to maintain retail pricing and excellent resale value, compare that to a Ford or Volkswagon or Nissan. But who has the most loyal and satisfied owner body? Do you think they go hand in glove? Let's talk about another industry for a moment...In retail fashion, who has the best reputation, of course Nordstorm's, and who has the highest markup, and profit and prices, yes that's right, Nordstroms! Always, the most satisfied customers are always the ones that spend the most.

I rant, a little, but it is the truth..............
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Old 03-20-2010, 09:31 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by California
I am going over to the dark side....
(insert rant here)

I rant, a little, but it is the truth..............

Fuckin'A right! I've been saying that for 25 years.
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Old 03-20-2010, 09:50 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by California
I am going over to the dark side....

Very informative. Good post.
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Old 03-20-2010, 11:14 PM   #55
funhouse
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try it yourself..............

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdub1242
They are the lowest form of life on earth.


My wife and I are looking for a CPO BMW 5-series. She finds a 2008 model with the features and mileage we want. Give them a call....3 times. We are looking to buy, like right now. Never heard anything. Had to call the sales manager and finally got hooked up with a "saleman".
He gives me the rundown on how the CPO deal works, etc. Stuff I already know because we have researched the cars for months. I ask him to give me a walk-out-the-door-right-now price. I again tell him we are ready to buy right now.
He calls back about 15 minutes later and tells me "I can sell the car for $35,500. Thats the right price for the market in a 200 mile radius."


The price on the car was $35,900..........
I would think with the economy like it is and car sales being way down these guys would be jumping over each other to get a sale.
Sorry, I know I'm stating the obvious but F&#@ I hate them!
Strokers use the phone, buyers do it in person.....you must work for the gov't someplace!
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Old 03-21-2010, 02:32 AM   #56
Ristretto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by California
I am going over to the dark side.......
That post trumps all before any that may try to follow.
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Old 03-21-2010, 03:23 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffy109
.....tens of thousands of hard working people who have chosen a profession that pays the mortgage and feeds the family.

Do I have it right or did I miss a detail?

no; alongside barristas and hookers, you've nailed it
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Old 03-21-2010, 06:27 AM   #58
Uncle Pollo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funhouse
Strokers use the phone, buyers do it in person.....you must work for the gov't someplace!
20% of my income is from the phone
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Old 03-21-2010, 06:31 AM   #59
Uncle Pollo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motornoggin
I hate it and won't do it any more. It amazes me how many dealers can't be honest, straightforward and upfront. I feel like I need a shower after car/bike shopping most of the time. Bleh...

It's to the point I won't even go look at new toys because of the slimey salespeople who won't take no for an answer.
I'll shower you ...
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Old 03-21-2010, 06:42 AM   #60
Tinfish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funhouse
Strokers use the phone, buyers do it in person
I bought my last two (new) vehicles over the phone. Some dealers, even the fleet managers, won't give prices over the phone, but most will so it's a super easy way to buy. All you have to do then is show up, sign papers etc, drive home. Easy peasy.
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