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Old 04-09-2010, 07:58 AM   #121
DAKEZ
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Thumb Braking. Practice every day during your normal riding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue&Yellow
3. Get a feel for the brakes: While on an empty road and traveling at the speed limit try getting a feel for the front brake. You should squeeze with your knees and straighten your arms and back while at the same time squeeeeeezing the front brake. I recommend also pulling the clutch at the same time if you feel you can manage it. It should take maybe 0.5 second to go from no front brake to maximum front brake, this will allow time for the weight to transfer to the front wheel.

Start easy and then brake harder and harder, be prepared to release the brake if you feel that the front wheel locks up or the rear of the bike is coming up. During this exercise you don't need to use the rear brake at all, the rear brake is the good for small speed adjustments, works well at low speeds and on gravel and can also help stabilizing the bike in a corner. But the harder you need to brake the more front brake you need to dial in and the less rear brake you should use. Pro racers use the rear and front brake under maximum braking but for 99% of road riders it's safer to only rely on the front brake for emergency stops. This does however change a bit if you have a low slung cruiser, then you might have to use both brakes.... so essentially you need to practice braking with your motorcycle.
....
While Blue&Yellow makes a valid point about the front brake being the go to brake for stopping a motorcycle. I would only suggest that there is a reason that Pro racers use both.


In the beginning it is easy to lock up the rear brake so much care should be taken. That said, you should not wait too long before beginning to practice with BOTH brakes.


If you know your bike and practice your braking (often) you will never find yourself doing what many call "panic braking". Instead you will instinctively pull off "Threshold Braking"


RIDE SAFE RIDE OFTEN
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DAKEZ screwed with this post 04-09-2010 at 08:54 AM
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Old 04-09-2010, 08:39 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ
[B]While Blue&Yellow makes a valid point about the front brake being the go to brake for stopping a motorcycle. I would only suggest that there is a reason that Pro racers use both.
I've read the statistic that 70% of braking power comes from the front and 30% from the rear.

So a few guys proclaim that the front is the more important one (true) and the only one that counts (not true)

30% of braking power is not nothing, it can make the difference between stopping and hitting a guardrail or other object. Learn to brake hard with both brakes.
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Old 04-09-2010, 09:12 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ
Does this sound contradictory? That is because it is contradictory!

I do not know but it would be my guess that Blue&Yellow learned to ride on the street and not on the dirt.

Ride in a lower gear!!!

RIDE ASSERTIVE. Keep the RPM within the power band!!!

Always have the power at the ready so you can accelerate out of trouble without shifting down.

People that learn to ride in the dirt quickly learn that WAY more often than not it is better to add throttle (to control the inertia of the bike) than it is to slow down and brake. (fighting the inertia of the bike)
I meant that new riders will often shift to the HIGHEST gear possible, keeping the rpm too low, my mistake...

About braking, well I myself use both brakes progressively and dependent on the situation, taking into consideration the available traction at each wheel. It's an instinctive thing that I don't even attempt to teach to beginners, I think it's safest for them to just get into the habit of using the front front brake for quick stops and then as their riding skill increases they will be in a better position to figure it out.

My extremely basic braking advice for beginners is:

Low speed = rear brake
Medium to high speed & medium braking = both brakes
Medium to high speed & hard braking = front brake
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Old 04-09-2010, 10:30 AM   #124
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Braking

I use my rear brake a lot.. ....

I trail brake in corners.. IE I ride the rear brake to create more stability in a corner. (read the physics in Total Control)

I'll lightly use the rear to dump some speed in a corner.


NEVER EVER apply the front brake hard when on loose surfaces.

NEVER EVER slam on the front brake when the front wheel is anything but straight. Try it a 1 mph and see what happens.. instant dump!
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Old 04-09-2010, 11:33 AM   #125
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Maybe it's just me but I found having the proper reaction to a rear wheel lockup (get the bike straightened out before releasing the rear brake) came pretty naturally. I distinctly remember the first time it happened to me in a panic stop. It was a situation where everyone on the freeway slammed on their brakes and I had to emergency brake and locked up the rear. I just naturally let the front brake off a tad, steered and shifted my weight until the bike was mostly straightened out and then released and reapplied the rear brake. Given how quickly it all happened I can guarantee you that it wasn't a conscious thought process.

It may be because I spent a lot of time thrashing Stingrays and other bikes as a kid and had a scoot in college. I suspect that's where I learned to straighten it out before letting off the rear brake.

Though I personally have very few dirt miles, I do understand why people recommend getting some dirt experience under your belt to get a better understanding of bike dynamics.
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Old 04-09-2010, 03:22 PM   #126
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On Street Riding

1) Don't Fuck With Right Handers
They are always blinder and sharper and much more likely to have a cage crossing the double yellow and accumulate sand/gravel.

2) Ride The Outside Tire Tracks On Corners
Keeps your head away from on-coming traffic on left handers and gives you the greatest visibility through right-handers. If there's any sand/gravel/debris, chances are that the cage tires have already cut the cleanest path through. And if you need to change your line, it is always easier to simply tighten your line, as opposed to widen and re-tighten your line.

3) Mentally Note The Time of Day and Day Week
Everyone knows Sunday is the best day to ride (least amount of cops for one ). Weekdays means road/utility workers are blocking a lane on blind corners and delivery trucks are everywhere. Morning/evening commute has people in and out of driveways. Weekday afternoons means school buses. Dawn and dusk mean deer. Wee hours mean deer and drunks.

4) For Those In Deer Country - Understand Your Odds
Speaking of deer (my greatest risk by far - I've hit six, 3 on a motorcycle), know your odds of hitting a deer by Time of Day and Month of Year. (Note: stats are about the same for every northern state, and you should take probably traffic flow into consideration.)
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Old 04-09-2010, 04:13 PM   #127
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On Body Surfing (Asphalt)

1) Odds Are That You Will Go Down
Be realistic and prepared. 3 out of 4 enthusiasts hit the deck at some point. I'm certain there are many ATGATT posts above, but understand that ATGATT only gets you so far. It doesn't do all that much in most dangerous crash situation to a rider - the sudden stop..... in other words hitting an immoveable object.

2) Objects in motion will continue in motion, unless acted upon by an outside force
If you lose traction (ie, crash), understand that you will slide in a straight line. The slide won’t kill you, but the sudden stop will. So always pay attention to your run-off room. Think really hard before you push your personal limits on any road which has guardrails, stone walls, cliffs, trees or opposing traffic (itself doubling velocity, see next point) on the outside of corners.

3) KE =1/2 MV^2 (Kinetic Energy = one half Mass times Velocity squared)
The key here is that your kinetic energy is directly proportional to the square of your speed. This means that if you double your speed, you will quadruple the following:
- the braking distance required to come to a stop
- the distance you will slide if you come off the bike (and in a straight line - see above), and
- the impact force your body will experience if you should be so unlucky as to hit an immoveable object.

Tripling speed (eg from 30 to 90) means NINE TIMES the KE .

4) Knowing How To Fall
As an adult, this unfortunately tends to be something you either have, or you don't, based upon the sports you grew up with. If you had a lot of fall practice growing up (esp. at speed), chances are that you've built up some good instincts to protect yourself. If not, well perhaps you should just take it bit easier than most. More here.

We all like to push our limits. Frankly it is the only way to improve skill. Just try and use your head and be very selective when testing new limits... you can corner at nearly 1 lateral G in a 30mph tight corner or a 90mph sweeper, but the consequence of error can be vastly different.
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Old 04-09-2010, 04:29 PM   #128
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Thumb

Great stuff Snapper! Scientific and to the point, me likey!
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Old 04-09-2010, 07:45 PM   #129
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Thanks for the comments guys, I appreciate it. Will try to remember some of the other 2nd tier tips that I live by.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ
Watch out for diesel spills in the corners (they tend to be in the outside line)
Fortunately for me, fuel spills do not seem to be an issue in the good twisty backroads around here. Guess there are just so many corners that any leaky cage/truck piss just dissipates.

Completely agree when it comes to freeway/highway on/off ramps however (I live near NYC). I religiously ride the inside line on those, and never push it. Read at least a half dozen "face plants" from people low siding on these ramps and have no clue what caused it - I call it invisible cage piss.... you can start to see it on the heavily traveled ramps.
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Old 04-10-2010, 09:32 AM   #130
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Check out ADvrider website. You can learn all kinds of stuff from some very cool guys with a lot of experience.
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Old 04-10-2010, 03:34 PM   #131
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Dork ~

[quote=dwoodward]

Hell, I go out of my way to look like a dork. Anyone in Oregon that's seen an FJR rider with a yellow helmet mohawk- that's me. The funny thing is, I know that cagers see it- because they glance in my direction, do a fast double-take, then work very, very hard to not look at me again. The bonus is, they have to know where I am at all times so they can rigidly NOT look at me.

I wanna see! Please! Please!
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Old 04-11-2010, 08:31 PM   #132
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Good comments, disagree with weight on inside peg when cornering. Weight should be placed on the outside peg for maximum efficiency. (See TOTW 2 pg 84 - pivot steering ) I think racers and street riders alike should read Keith Code's work.

The biggest takeaway from his books; The typical/intuitive survival reactions are often wrong on a motorcycle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sink
Great thread.

This is for street riding.

Keep two fingers covering the brake and clutch.

Hold the bars like you are holding a bird in your hand. If you tense up the bike feels it.

If your behind a car at a red light don't be on the bumper of the car in front. Stay a bit behind and to the side. Keep an eye on your mirrors. If someone is coming up fast you can move around the car in front of you and let him hit that

Smooth is fast.

Just keep leaning, you make the curve, at the worst you'll low side, better than going into the trees head on.

If you go down push the bike away from you.

On the interstate don't ride the right lane. Idiots that aren't paying attention will say, wow thats my exit and cut across the lanes sometimes,and people getting on usually just pull on withoutlooking, figuring other drivers will make way

When raining don't ride in the middle of the lane. Thats where all the oil is.

Put weight on your inside peg when cornering.

Be careful when you pull off to the side of the road and keep wheel straight. If its soft or sandy its eassy to fall over.

Have fun.

Practise braking in an empty parking lot, and slow speed manuvers.

When turning tightly at low speeds lightly ride the rear brake.



Enjoy

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Old 04-12-2010, 07:23 AM   #133
luni
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Well after a weekend of riding and a morning commute I've noticed one constant.

Vehicle drivers automatically lose 50 IQ points when making left hand turns of any kind. And some of them don't have to many to start with...

Had 3 people pull out in front of me or almost pull out in less than a half mile on my way to work this morning.
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I got a feeling the KTM would be like a hot girlfriend so fun to be with just not trust worthy.
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Old 04-12-2010, 09:19 AM   #134
luni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ
Try Lateral motion (Lane Weave) It will put a stop to the LBFTS left turning cages.


(Looked But Failed To See)
Yup read the article you posted up before I even had my license. Some good info. Tried the weave a couple times and you can see the driver hold their look longer. A good tool in the tool box for some unsure situations. Still doesn't beat a good safety margin and situational awareness.
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I got a feeling the KTM would be like a hot girlfriend so fun to be with just not trust worthy.
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Old 04-12-2010, 02:44 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luni
Yup read the article you posted up before I even had my license. Some good info. Tried the weave a couple times and you can see the driver hold their look longer. A good tool in the tool box for some unsure situations. Still doesn't beat a good safety margin and situational awareness.
Does anyone have the link to the article? A quick search on my part revealed nada.

Thanks.
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