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Old 05-25-2008, 12:54 AM   #151
Sparrowhawk
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This might not be the best place to post the question but, I changed my oil a few hundred miles ago. I check the oil level frequently. Everything is fine until I run it at high speed (75 mph+) and 85 F for an hour or so. I let it cool while I get some Mexican dinner, check the oil, and it is over the fill line but still clean looking. Seemed odd gaining oil and I was thinking I should have burped it again or investigated what is causing it to gain oil but didn't because it was getting late and dark and I had several hours left so kept on riding.

After another 150 miles it gets a little noisy, like some kind of sheet metal vibrating. It is only noticeable at slower speeds traveling in small towns. I am thinking it is either the skid plate of the new license plate and I keep riding on in the dark. Later, the noise gets a different sound to it like the decompression is engaged or, God forbid, like a big end bearing going. Not sheet metal rattle but a bigger clunkier rattle. 17,000 miles on the bike, a '00 LC4E.

Two questions: is it common for air to get into the frame at sustained higher cruising speeds and the the oil level raising in the engine? What happens when you ride any distance with too much oil in the engine?

Tomorrow I get into things and see what I find but any thoughts you have about what to look for are appreciated.
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Old 06-11-2008, 11:50 AM   #152
meat popsicle
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Did you get your answer Sparrowhawk?

The engine cannot create oil, and unless your coolant is getting into the oil (that'd be obvious) then you have no other source of volume save air. But I don't think air can get into the system and not out again so

There are some things that could have happened...

- maybe you overfilled it to begin with, not by putting more than 1.9L in but perhaps you did not get all the old oil out?

- there is a thread on this currently, well sort of, but it has an interesting post at the end:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...=339127&page=4

If you ride with too much oil in the engine it gets kicked into one of the ventilation tubes that is routed to the airbox. Check in there to see if it actually was overfilled - OR - maybe the dipstick reading was not correct.

Not sure what the phantom noise might have been. I am sure you check to make sure things are secure. I can't imagine how too much oil could cause noise.
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Old 06-11-2008, 11:21 PM   #153
Sparrowhawk
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I have not gotten a good answer yet but have not had the quality time with the bike to chase it down because of family/job/house/family/job/house ... interventions.

I readjusted the valves and re-burped the upper frame oil filler bolt and the oil level is back to where it was before and the ulgier noise has gone away. Never any oil in the air box. My best guess is that somehow I got air in the frame, raising the oil level in the engine but I'm not sure how that could occur. The oil drain was done right and all was torqued afterwards. I'm running 16/45 sprockets so RPMs are up a bit at 75 mph from stock but not crazy so.

I just seem to remember reading somewhere here that if the oil level is too high in the engine the oil gets frothed like a homebrew with too much primer and something doesn't get oiled as a result. I couldn't remember if it was the crank or the cam that misses out on oil.

I have one theory about the ugly noise but have no way to test it since it went away. When you adjust the valves you have to take off the decompression cable on the front valve cover. I am wondering if I had it adjusted too tight or maybe the cable housing was not seated right and was partially engaging and getting some knocking noise as a result.

I've still got some rattly noise happening at about 3,000 RPM+ but it has been hard to find the source even using a mechanics stethiscope. I hear it most riding it but then I'm in no position to find a noise. I can't tell if it is coming from the exhaust pipe/muffler or some other part. Next step it to tighten all the frame nuts and bolts.

So far it's just lots of questions and theories but no facts. Now back to children/wife/old parents/job/house/children/wife/old parents/job/house/children/wife/old parents/job/beer/house/family/job/house ...

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Old 06-11-2008, 11:46 PM   #154
meat popsicle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrowhawk
I have not gotten a good answer yet but have not had the quality time with the bike to chase it down because of family/job/house/family/job/house ... interventions.
I am right there with ya... Nobody even checks my repair thread anymore. I think they got tired of the cobwebs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrowhawk
I readjusted the valves and re-burped the upper frame oil filler bolt and the oil level is back to where it was before and the ulgier noise has gone away. Never any oil in the air box. My best guess is that somehow I got air in the frame, raising the oil level in the engine but I'm not sure how that could occur. The oil drain was done right and all was torqued afterwards. I'm running 16/45 sprockets so RPMs are up a bit at 75 mph from stock but not crazy so.
Crazy would be over the redline. The only bit I have read about the RPM is Jerome said his valve lash drifted more when he recalled running for extended periods over 6,000 rpm. Nothing about making oilshakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrowhawk
I just seem to remember reading somewhere here that if the oil level is too high in the engine the oil gets frothed like a homebrew with too much primer and something doesn't get oiled as a result. I couldn't remember if it was the crank or the cam that misses out on oil.
If you come across that I'd appreciate a link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrowhawk
I have one theory about the ugly noise but have no way to test it since it went away. When you adjust the valves you have to take off the decompression cable on the front valve cover. I am wondering if I had it adjusted too tight or maybe the cable housing was not seated right and was partially engaging and getting some knocking noise as a result.
If you manual decompression cable is adjusted too tight it will not "clack" when released. The arm that the cable rotates bottoms out against the engine. You can see this by looking through the tank hole, upper starboard side. You would also be able to feel the engagement through the manual decomp lever. If you slightly pull the lever a bit while the bike is running you will feel what I mean, and if you release it but leave your finger on the trigger the vibration should go away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrowhawk
I've still got some rattly noise happening at about 3,000 RPM+ but it has been hard to find the source even using a mechanics stethiscope. I hear it most riding it but then I'm in no position to find a noise. I can't tell if it is coming from the exhaust pipe/muffler or some other part. Next step it to tighten all the frame nuts and bolts.
Try removing the skidplate to see if the noise goes away or lessens. If so then it is being reflected by the skidplate, which may help you narrow it down some. Don't forget to tighten the exhaust bolts too, and take a look around the engine to see if anything is letting go. You could probably spend the better part of a day checking all the bolts but its better to do so at home when you want than when the fastener lets go... if that is what's making the noise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrowhawk
So far it's just lots of questions and theories but no facts. Now back to children/wife/old parents/job/house/children/wife/old parents/job/house/children/wife/old parents/job/beer/house/family/job/house ...
not enough beer... 2000 LC4 - say did you upgrade the roller bearing?
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73558
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Old 06-11-2008, 11:53 PM   #155
jcrider48
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Same thing here

I get that same banging sheet metal noise. I've got a 2003 with 6000 miles on it and since I'm new to this bike, I was thinking it was normal. I changed my oil about 400 miles ago and just noticed the noise. let me know if you figure out what the noise is noise.

thanks,
jeff
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:46 AM   #156
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Creeper, maybe a stupid question but...
Did a long trip last year, about 6,000 kms all up. The bike needed an oil change, but I was in the middle of nowhere. When the time came to put oil in the down tube, I lay the bike on its side and did the deed. Picked the bike back up, burbed it and job done. Since then I've done the same thing twice at home.
Would there be any adverse effects to this procedure?
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Old 06-15-2008, 01:31 PM   #157
Sparrowhawk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
I am right there with ya... Nobody even checks my repair thread anymore. I think they got tired of the cobwebs.
Oh yes we do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
Try removing the skidplate to see if the noise goes away or lessens. If so then it is being reflected by the skidplate, which may help you narrow it down some. Don't forget to tighten the exhaust bolts too, and take a look around the engine to see if anything is letting go. You could probably spend the better part of a day checking all the bolts but its better to do so at home when you want than when the fastener lets go... if that is what's making the noise.
This will be the first move.


Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
not enough beer...
Never is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
2000 LC4 - say did you upgrade the roller bearing?
Thanks for the reminder, the parts are on order! The rattly noise seems like it is originating in the subframe or under the seat (not the engine) so I'm going to follow through with that but, .... could it be that the noise is a result of the bike vibrating a little more than before?? A slight increase in vibes in the left foot peg?? More problems with bikes ridden hard?? Hmmm... From reading the thread you may have just hit it.
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Old 06-15-2008, 02:42 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterdark
Creeper, maybe a stupid question but...
Did a long trip last year, about 6,000 kms all up. The bike needed an oil change, but I was in the middle of nowhere. When the time came to put oil in the down tube, I lay the bike on its side and did the deed. Picked the bike back up, burbed it and job done. Since then I've done the same thing twice at home.
Would there be any adverse effects to this procedure?
Nope... but the simple logic of laying your bike on it's side just gave several people who's bikes have not hit the ground (yet) to have a traumatic episode.
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Old 06-16-2008, 08:09 PM   #159
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Pissed Hello?

I'm not meaning to sound too precious here but I did post a question on the previous page and recieved no response.

I understand I'm new here but by my reckoning the idea of a forum such as this is to enable bike owners to benefit from others knowledge and experience and I will endevour to do the same for others, not crap on about completely unrelated subjects.

I know the thread is now back on the point but I still have no response!!

I have read a similar complaint on another thread to which the response was 'no replies as your profile is incomplete', petty, but I have completed mine in the hope of any answers.

I have now hijacked the thread just as I am complaining about,
I apologise and hope some may understand my frustrations
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Old 06-16-2008, 09:03 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIRTYNIDGE
Just wondered if this is the same system on my 93 EGS LC4.

I have the oil piping entering the frame as shown in your pictures but I don't have the screw-on type filter shown on the bottom of the frame, I have the paper element type filter under the carby in addition to the strainer type filter element you show on the side of the engine.

I was uncertain what the oil change procedure would be as it doesn't fit with either lube system shown in my Cd ROM manual, so I took it to my local KTM dealer who told me the screw on type filter is only for dry sump models and gave me the impression it isn't a frame oil model, If this is the case; why the piping to the frame???

Should I need to bleed it in case they haven't. I have run it for a few minutes and the dipstick oil level looks fine
You can always quote yourself to give your message a bump! Some things slip by our notice; we ain't perfect...
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:54 PM   #161
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Cry

Thanks mate, apologies for getting shirty!
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Old 06-17-2008, 05:36 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIRTYNIDGE
I'm not meaning to sound too precious here but I did post a question on the previous page and recieved no response.

I understand I'm new here but by my reckoning the idea of a forum such as this is to enable bike owners to benefit from others knowledge and experience and I will endevour to do the same for others
It's not 'cos you're new. Most likely it is because no-one knows the answer. People tend not to reply when they have no help to offer. Face-to-face, people would reply, "sorry mate, I can't help" but on forums you often get silence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DIRTYNIDGE
I have read a similar complaint on another thread to which the response was 'no replies as your profile is incomplete', petty
In your case, I don't think it is relevant. You asked a good, complete question.

However, it is very much not 'petty'. The profile information is often very useful, particularly when the answer depends on information omitted from the question but available in a completed profile. For example, when someone asks "where is the closest whatever to me" and doesn't have their location listed in the profile, how are we supposed to answer that?? The world is a big place, and we don't know where they are.
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Old 06-17-2008, 05:53 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIRTYNIDGE
Just wondered if this is the same system on my 93 EGS LC4.

I have the oil piping entering the frame as shown in your pictures but I don't have the screw-on type filter shown on the bottom of the frame, I have the paper element type filter under the carby in addition to the strainer type filter element you show on the side of the engine.

I was uncertain what the oil change procedure would be as it doesn't fit with either lube system shown in my Cd ROM manual, so I took it to my local KTM dealer who told me the screw on type filter is only for dry sump models and gave me the impression it isn't a frame oil model, If this is the case; why the piping to the frame???
My guess would be that the oil system is like the RFS (Racing Four Stroke) bikes. They use the 'toilet roll' filter behind the barrel. Your EGS is a fairly early model, so may be an orphan and not properly documented by KTM; and you should also consider the possibility that a DPO has done an engine swap, plumbing in the frame oil reservoir to an RFS engine to increase the oil capacity. Check some RFS manuals to see if it matches yours. And/or check your engine number to confirm what series it is.

And AFAIK the LC4 is not dry sump, and it does have the screw on fitler.

Also, have you asked at ktmtalk.com? Lots more specialist KTM knowledge over there.
Do let us know what you find, now you have piqued my interest!
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warewolf screwed with this post 06-17-2008 at 10:38 PM
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Old 06-17-2008, 08:09 PM   #164
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Thumb

Thanks for an answer

I also thought maybe it had had an engine swap, which would explain the peculiar set-up but both engine and frame numbers designate a '93 EGS. The previous owner had it in his head the bike was a '96 model (the bike not being registered it wasn't obvious to him).

Just out of interest, the KTM dealer I took the bike to for a 'major' service didn't replace the 'toilet roll' filter (they rinsed the old one!!) as they couldn't find a new one (surely a standard service consumable)!!

They soon found four filters when I bought one from their spares dept a week later and finished the job myself. That is the last service they will get out of me!

I will try KTMtalk for an answer, thanks for your thoughts.
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Old 06-22-2008, 04:46 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creeper
Nope... but the simple logic of laying your bike on it's side just gave several people who's bikes have not hit the ground (yet) to have a traumatic episode.
Thanks for the response Mr Creeper. I have 'traumatic episodes' on a regular basis.
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