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Old 06-22-2006, 07:47 PM   #76
Manny Carp
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Ya, I guess I'm being a little too uptight about it.

Thanks
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Old 06-22-2006, 08:07 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Manny Carp
Ya, I guess I'm being a little too uptight about it.

Thanks
Up until a few years ago, KTM didn't even recommend synthetic oil. As long as what you put in isn't Pep Boys paraffin base sludge but rather something decent... it'll be fine.
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Old 07-09-2006, 12:17 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creeper
...

Additional information as of 05-07-06
After discussing the options, it's possible that the best way to burp the frame on an '02 and earlier 640 would be to install the filler bolt loosely in the frame, in other words, threaded in, but not quite all the way, then start the bike and wait for the oil to flow out past the threads. As soon as you see the oil, tighten the bolt... then shut off the engine.
Have a rag or two handy to soak up the oil that slides past... but if your quick about it, there should be a minimum of mess.



...
Questions:
Why is this not a good idea on the 03 and later bikes? I see they have a different sized bolt/hole but for the life of me can't understand why that would matter.

Also, is it critical to tighten the bolt and then shut off the engine (in that order)?

Danke
(now back to the Cup...)
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meat popsicle screwed with this post 07-09-2006 at 02:05 PM Reason: syntax
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Old 07-09-2006, 01:59 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
Questions: Why is this not a good idea on the 03 and later bikes?
Dunno... been doing my '03 like that since oil change numero uno...
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Old 07-09-2006, 04:07 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
Questions:
Why is this not a good idea on the 03 and later bikes? I see they have a different sized bolt/hole but for the life of me can't understand why that would matter.
Also, is it critical to tighten the bolt and then shut off the engine (in that order)?

Danke

Meat my friend... the first paragraphs I wrote involved tearing you a new asshole.
Then I remembered something that I try very hard to remember and as often forget... something I need to remind myself of so often that the last paragraph is actually that reminder.
And the first few paragraphs are a toned down version of the original asshole tearing.

It's a fine idea on '03 to present... as Chris has already indicated.
What makes it extra fine for '02 and earlier is that the smaller size of the filler bolt makes the more complicated "burp hose" method somewhat less effective.
Allowing the oil to simply bleed past the filler bolt is a quicker, simpler and only slightly more messy method... if your timing is good.

When I wrote that DIY guide, I said right up front that nothing is chiseled in stone, that there may be a better or different way that works for you.

I learn new and better ways to do things every day, and although the method may not be new and better for some... it's a perfectly viable alternative to the more finicky, neat freak burp hose thing that I came up with a few years ago as my first alternative to the book method.
If you'll recall at the time, there was no guide anywhere other than the owners manual and there were a buttload of people spinning out about changing their oil... so much so that they were paying a dealer to do it.
My original intent was to provide a simple, clean blow by blow methodology for the novice oil changer.

Some people can only do, or even think about one thing at a time, so for those folks, would you rather stop the oil from spewing all over your bike first, or shut off the engine first... which does stop the pump, but does nothing for the oil level that's an inch above your filler bolt by now?

I've lost track of how many times I've tried to explain how the LC4 oiling system works.
Every few months, or at least every model year, someone questions the procedure, wondering why KTM made it so comparatively complicated, and why can't they just cheat... and not dick around with the frame fill/burp or-fuckin'-deal.
If those same people would take the 10 minutes they spend bitching about the system and procedure, and look at the oil system schematic and read the point by point description that KTM provided......
Or... maybe I'm being too presumptuous where mechanical aptitude is concerned. Perhaps, what skills and knowledge I take for granted may be an ability not readily found in others.
Maybe I should remember that a common question means a common lack of understanding, and that figuring out an oiling system, although a natural process for me, is the equivalent of rocket surgery for the majority.
I can't play a musical instrument to save my life... it doesn't make me an idiot, just a guy that has no aptitude for musical instruments.

And so it goes... I apologize for almost tearing you a new one.
C
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Old 07-09-2006, 04:17 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creeper
Meat my friend... the first paragraphs I wrote involved tearing you a new asshole.
This post is much less interesting without pictures...
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Old 07-09-2006, 04:30 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creeper
Meat my friend...

It's a fine idea on '03 to present... as Chris has already indicated.
What makes it extra fine for '02 and earlier is that the smaller size of the filler bolt makes the more complicated "burp hose" method somewhat less effective.
Allowing the oil to simply bleed past the filler bolt is a quicker, simpler and only slightly more messy method... if your timing is good.
Understood. Your burp hose offers a few seconds of leeway. I hope that the loose frame filler bolt doesn't act like a thumb on the end of the hose does... Hopefully the pressure isn't that high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by creeper
...
Some people can only do, or even think about one thing at a time, so for those folks, would you rather stop the oil from spewing all over your bike first, or shut off the engine first... which does stop the pump, but does nothing for the oil level that's an inch above your filler bolt by now?
...
My bold font is the bit of information that I needed to understand why one might want to tighten the bolt ASAP - and why your burp tool makes that unnecessary. Crystal. Sorry but the oil diagram didn't show that to me; perhaps my eyes did glaze over when I looked at it, repeatedly. So if your burp tool isn't used, one should be prepared to tighten the bolt - have the wrench on the bolt perhaps - because the time taken to shut the bike off and prepare to tighten it = more oil leaking out.

No apologies necessary. I did not consider there might be some methods you would rather not discuss in front of your intended audience... my bad.
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meat popsicle screwed with this post 07-09-2006 at 06:17 PM Reason: second thoughts
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Old 07-09-2006, 05:15 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
My bold font is the bit of information that I needed to understand why one might want to tighten the bolt ASAP - and why your burp tool makes that unnecessary. Crystal. Sorry but the oil diagram didn't show that to me; perhaps my eyes did glaze over when I looked at it, repeatedly.
Sorry... that bit wasn't directed at you, but rather a generic rant/preface to my "rocket surgery theory of musicanical aptitude" speech.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
So if your burp tool isn't used, one should be prepared to tighten the bolt - have the wrench on the bolt perhaps - because the time taken to shut the bike off and prepare to tighten it = more oil leaking out.
Abso-fuckin'-bingo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
No apologies necessary' you musta had your kid gloves on, or you are going soft on us... The bike should be done dripping, and my beer is almost done. Back at it.
Beer? That's the real problem. Too bad Prohibition is so hard to enforce.
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Old 07-09-2006, 06:56 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creeper
...
Beer? That's the real problem. Too bad Prohibition is so hard to enforce.
That might be why I took the cartridge filter out before taking off the spin-on and, well, my drip pan wasn't quite big enough... It's hard to know what's a plug and what's a cork, and where more oil might be lurking up above something that shoulda been opened after!

Musta been why you put those in the order you did.

PS - saw a poster awhile back; it was a vintage picture of a anti-prohibition march somewhere. It was a sea of men and every last damn sign said:

"We want beer"



Here:
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meat popsicle screwed with this post 07-09-2006 at 07:01 PM
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Old 07-09-2006, 07:57 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by ChrisC
This post is much less interesting without pictures...

Better?
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Old 07-09-2006, 08:06 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creeper
Better?
Guess it beats Meat gettin' a new bunghole...
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Old 07-09-2006, 08:42 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by ChrisC
Guess it beats Meat gettin' a new bunghole...
you said "beats meat"

I'm layin' 30:1 odds that someone pics that up as an avitar.

Oh yeah, the chuckwagon has been doped; news at 11. Thanks creeper!
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Old 07-09-2006, 08:46 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by meat popsicle
I'm layin' 30:1 odds that someone pics that up as an avitar.
Dagwood wants it... but he can't figure out how to shrink it without loosing the movement.

('Course... I can't either. Did I mention I'm not really super duper good with 'puters 'N shit?)
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Old 10-18-2006, 03:31 AM   #89
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Dry Rebuild Oil Capacity

Interesting observation with a dry rebuild.

The engine manual says the oil capacity on a LC4 Adventure R is 2.1 litres

Actually if you have stripped and rebuilt you engine it is more like 2.6 litres

Wondering why the system wouldnt bleed completely, 'til we added 500mm more oil . . . . . . .

Just thought I would add this to the thread

Pezz :)
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:49 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pezz_gs
Interesting observation with a dry rebuild.

The engine manual says the oil capacity on a LC4 Adventure R is 2.1 litres

Actually if you have stripped and rebuilt you engine it is more like 2.6 litres

Wondering why the system wouldnt bleed completely, 'til we added 500mm more oil . . . . . . .

Just thought I would add this to the thread

Pezz :)
This must be a Southern Hemishere issue...
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