ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Old's Cool > Airheads
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-27-2010, 07:55 AM   #31
Pink Floyd
Air Head
 
Pink Floyd's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: New Jersey
Oddometer: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by herb28
Always been happy with redline. Looked at their site and they offer a lot of gear oil. Which one is the best for airhead boxes? thanks




I wouldn't say that the airhead gear boxes are necessarily "problem" transmissions, but over the years water can find its way into the case and cause some pitting on the gear teeth and also the bearings certainly don't last as long as those in the engine or final drive. Better safe than sorry. If you actually ride the bike a great deal I think you'd have to be nuts to cheap out on your oil in order to save a few bucks.
Pink Floyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2010, 09:47 AM   #32
Pelicanglider
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Oddometer: 231
OK, I looked for someone to raise a concern about GL-5, but so far no one has so here it is from Craig Vechorik at Bench Mark Works.

"All modern gear oil available today in local retail outlets is GL-5 grade. GL-5 grade gear oil contains sulphur compounds that attack brass and bronze. BMW transmissions and final drives made before 1992 contain bushings and thrust washers made of these metals. Any brand of gear oil that is GL-5 rated will attack bushings and thrust washers. At Bench Mark Works LLC, I use only GL-4 gear oil and we have it available for sale to our customers at the online parts store."

After reading this I only use GL-4.
Pelicanglider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2010, 10:21 AM   #33
Airhead Wrangler
Adios Mexico
 
Airhead Wrangler's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Back in Seattle, FINALLY
Oddometer: 6,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanglider
GL-5 grade gear oil contains sulphur compounds that attack brass and bronze.
BMW specified GL-5 in their owners manuals and shop manuals. The persistent myth about GL-5 attacking yellow metals seems to be pretty well debunked on many VW and Benz websites:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Some cage forum
"Jeff, All cars made today have brass syncros that look the same as Beetle syncros. To think that the oil companies would make a product that would destroy every gearbox it went into is rediculous. When I first heard this GL-4/GL-5 corrosion thing, I did some research on the oil co web sites. I couldn't find anywhere that said it was harmful, so I sent a tech message to the Amsoil tech guy. His response stated the history of how that myth got started by the ignorant VW people. When GL-5 first came out it was indeed corrosive to brass syncros. But only at temps above 250F. Now since it is impossible to get any street driven gear oil to that temp (It is hard to get engine oil that hot!), there will be no problems using regular GL-5. However, just to satisfy the ignorant masses, the API came up with another added rating, called MT-1 which is tacked onto the end of all GL-5 oils you can buy today. With this MT-1, GL-5 oil is not corrosive at any temp.
The difference between GL-4 and GL-5 is the extreme pressure capability. On surfaces that have high pressure where metal to metal contact will happen, the GL-5 is way better at protecting. Spider gear teeth and side gear teeth are one place where GL-5's better EP rating is desperatly needed. I've got 5-6 Bus 091 ZFs in my garage right now that have suffered significant wear on the gear teeth from probably using GL-4.
The nay-sayers like to point out their Bentley recommends GL-4. Of course it does, that's all there was 30 years ago. It also recommends using only mono-grade engine oil, bias ply tires........
The use of synthetic or dino makes no difference. I highly recommend you use syn over dino, you can really feel the difference in the way it shifts. If you buy a fresh gearbox, first put in dino for about 500-1000 miles then dump it and put in syn. It stays there long enough to warrant the extra cost, unlike syn engine oil.
I put my money where my mouth is. My last gearbox was a full out Berg 5 with close 2nd and a near NOS ZF. You couldn't pay me enough to risk damaging it with GL-4's inferior EP performance. Argueably, that gearbox is worth $3500-4k.
I always challenge the guys that say GL-5 is bad by asking them to tell me who do they know that had a failure using GL-5. Still waiting."
__________________
R80ST Gets The HPN Treatment
Seattle to TDF on an airhead

Current rides: HPN #834, '93 R100GSPD "red rocket", '73 R75/5 Toaster mongrel, '80 Ducati Pantah 500SL, '92 DR350, '67 Honda SS50, '80 Honda Chaly.
Airhead Wrangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2010, 11:38 AM   #34
Pelicanglider
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Oddometer: 231
From the quote in Airhead Wrangler's post - "When GL-5 first came out it was indeed corrosive to brass syncros."

Well, I stand corrected, but the statement above surely points to the origin of the concern using GL-5 gear oil in older gearboxes. And after becoming a general belief and accepted truth, no matter how many suffixes API puts on the back of the GL-5 spec, it will take a lot of time before it dies. BTW, thanks for the info!
Pelicanglider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2010, 06:15 PM   #35
AntonLargiader
Beastly Adventurer
 
AntonLargiader's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Oddometer: 4,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sox Fan
Anyone know the meaning of the term "hypoid"?
FWIW your bike does not have hypoid gears. But you should still use GL-5.
__________________
Anton Largiader largiader.com BMWRA.org
AntonLargiader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2010, 08:09 PM   #36
Jay.T
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Oddometer: 59
I emailed Redline last year for recommendations on my 93 GSPD. There was an immediate improvement in the gearbox. Better shifting, quiet 1st to 2nd shifts. The gear box has 95k on it. About 2500 miles or so on the oil and the gear box began to get notchy again.

Jason,

Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, in your BMW I would recommend the 20W50 Motorcycle oil and the ShockProof Heavy, also packaged as V-Twin Transmission oil in the transmission and final drive.

Regards, Dave
Red Line Oil
Jay.T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2010, 12:58 AM   #37
Joerg
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joerg's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland
Oddometer: 1,356
Bluhduh Oh yes it does!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonLargiader
FWIW your bike does not have hypoid gears.
Anton - when was the last time you opened a final drive?

__________________
- Joerg

--
1990 BMW R80GS and K100LT * Lausanne, Switzerland
My Motorcycle WebPages - LED voltage monitor (aka charge light)

Joerg screwed with this post 04-28-2010 at 01:04 AM
Joerg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2010, 03:57 AM   #38
AntonLargiader
Beastly Adventurer
 
AntonLargiader's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Oddometer: 4,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joerg
Anton - when was the last time you opened a final drive?
Just about every week! Every one of them has been a spiral bevel made by the Klingon process, but if I find a hypoid one I'll be sure to let you know. I keep thinking some prewar model was truly hypoid (with an offset pinion) but I can't find a picture to support that.
__________________
Anton Largiader largiader.com BMWRA.org
AntonLargiader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2010, 04:00 AM   #39
AntonLargiader
Beastly Adventurer
 
AntonLargiader's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Oddometer: 4,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay.T
I emailed Redline last year for recommendations on my 93 GSPD. There was an immediate improvement in the gearbox.
Just from an email? Sweet! What's the address?
__________________
Anton Largiader largiader.com BMWRA.org
AntonLargiader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2010, 05:33 AM   #40
Joerg
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joerg's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland
Oddometer: 1,356
Thumb Gotcha

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonLargiader
Just about every week! Every one of them has been a spiral bevel made by the Klingon process, but if I find a hypoid one I'll be sure to let you know. I keep thinking some prewar model was truly hypoid (with an offset pinion) but I can't find a picture to support that.
Oups ...

Until a few minutes ago I thought that "hypoid gear" was equivalent for "spiral bevel gear". I overlooked that in a hypoid gear, the axes do not intersect ...

That's one of my aims: learn something new every day. Thanks for the hint!
__________________
- Joerg

--
1990 BMW R80GS and K100LT * Lausanne, Switzerland
My Motorcycle WebPages - LED voltage monitor (aka charge light)
Joerg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2010, 08:31 AM   #41
Airhead Wrangler
Adios Mexico
 
Airhead Wrangler's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Back in Seattle, FINALLY
Oddometer: 6,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonLargiader
Every one of them has been a spiral bevel made by the Klingon process,
I'd have to correct you by saying that they're a Klingelnberg Palloid profile. Unless of course you got some new gears from these guys:



__________________
R80ST Gets The HPN Treatment
Seattle to TDF on an airhead

Current rides: HPN #834, '93 R100GSPD "red rocket", '73 R75/5 Toaster mongrel, '80 Ducati Pantah 500SL, '92 DR350, '67 Honda SS50, '80 Honda Chaly.
Airhead Wrangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2010, 10:16 AM   #42
Beater
Mighty Unclean
 
Beater's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Oddometer: 3,160
I bought mine from her. Does this count?

__________________
Fred
'85 R80RT G/Sified <|> '91 R100GS Bumblebee (103K miles and climbing) <|> '73 R75/5 LWB
Airhead Zen: Ride - Repair - Ride - Maintain - Ride - Repeat
Beater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2010, 12:41 PM   #43
AntonLargiader
Beastly Adventurer
 
AntonLargiader's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Oddometer: 4,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airhead Wrangler
I'd have to correct you by saying that they're a Klingelnberg Palloid profile. ..
You did look at my Google link, right?
__________________
Anton Largiader largiader.com BMWRA.org
AntonLargiader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2010, 12:55 PM   #44
robsmoto
Motorcycleton
 
robsmoto's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Oddometer: 328
Four pages on airhead transmission oil and no one has mentioned Dow Gear Guard M? Well, here is a re-post of info that I put on the BMW MOA website some while back -

Although the question was about synthetic gear oil, I'll tell you what works well for me. I use the same for my airheads and my oilhead. For the transmission, driveshaft (airheads), and final drive I use Valvolene 80W-90 gear oil. It is readily available at auto parts stores.

I also use a bit of Dow's Gear Guard M with the gear oil - recommended 5% by volume. The airheads have much improved shifting with the Gear Guard M (not recommended with synthetic gear oil).

I change all oils (engine, transmission, driveshaft, and FD) at the same interval.

Dow Corning M-Gear Guard is Part # 1897519-0594.
And the product is called M-Gear Guard, also known as
Molykote. Call Dow-Corning at their toll free number
(1-800-248-2481)

If you call Dow and give them your Zip code, they can look up the local
supplier for you. Or you can click on the link below and enter your state.

http://tinyurl.com/eswwk


More info here -
http://www.dowcorning.com/content/pu...it/80-3373.pdf

Another link back to ADV, but for oilheads -
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=367936
robsmoto is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2010, 06:21 PM   #45
BrianK
F'in' half ass lookie boy
 
BrianK's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Boston, Manxachusetts
Oddometer: 856
Plenty o' Moly in Redline Shockproof Heavy....no need for additives.
BrianK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 04:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014