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Old 04-29-2010, 09:45 PM   #31
wanderlost
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CCW and bikes

I have a CCW and multiple firearms but rarely carry when traveling because of concerns when crossing state lines where CCW may not be valid (ie felony in NY state). Also, like most people I shoot right handed which wouldn't work while on the bike. Off the bike there have been a few times I wished I had a weapon for security, but in actuality nothing happened anyway. Now I carry a can of pepper spray which is legal in most localities (except traveling to Canada). That and a knife would cover all eventualities except for full on craziness which I hope I am smart enough to recognize and avoid.

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Old 04-29-2010, 10:05 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderlost
...Also, like most people I shoot right handed which wouldn't work while on the bike. Off the bike there have been a few times I wished I had a weapon for security, but in actuality nothing happened anyway. ......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingspan
Then there is no reason to carry on your person while riding and put yourself at added risk of injury during a fall.
Of course there's a reason...not wanting to expose your weapon *at all* unless deadly force is called for is the most common reason for an interest in carrying while riding. It has absolutely nothing to do with an interest in actually operating the weapon while riding, or with gloved hand, or with your throttle hand. All of that is besides the point. Concealed carry is about absolute preparedness, absolutely concealed. Any deviation from that is an unwanted exposure. So, transfers from off-body locations to on-body locations are undesirable...hence the interest in keeping it on-the-body--continuity of concealment. Unless you're a mall ninja, the preparedness and interest in maintaining concealment is what you're interested in, not the ability to shoot while riding.
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Old 04-30-2010, 04:12 AM   #33
dlh62c
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If you feel the need to carry....by all means do so. Your 'Riding Your Own Ride'. But do it legally. If you don't you should be prepared for the consequences both physically and financially.

I've never felt a need to carry here in the US. But working in Israel was different. There were times I felt everybody was carrying a gun but me. I would give the solders I worked with rides to the nearest bus stop. The car was packed shoulder to shoulder, everyone with either a UZI or M16.

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Old 04-30-2010, 06:02 AM   #34
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Maxpedition?

Maxpedition make a nice CCW bag. I like to carry water, camera, wallet... that type of thing. Rides nice over your shoulder like a courier bag, with a strap to attach to your belt to keep it in place when drawing.

I guess in reality it's just a fancy fagbag, but I own one and ride with it.

http://www.maxpedition.com/store/pc/...sp?idproduct=6
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Old 04-30-2010, 06:42 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunz
I have my CCW I carry everywhere I go.
the question wasn't 'Do you?' the question was 'how do you?'
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Old 04-30-2010, 07:05 AM   #36
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Guys, I understand the importance of conceilment and do CCW myself. I am not saying people shouldn't carry. However, there are ways around the issue that don't involve having the gun on your body. It just takes a new routine, some forethought, and practice. All things that should be a part of everyones CCW habits. Fanny packs and the like only scream "gun" to gun guys. The rest of the public will only question your fasion sense. That is the real reason most guys dismiss the idea, better to risk falling on your sidearm than have people think you carry a purse.

As for the glove comment, I was not suggesting people shoot while riding like some sort of hollywood farse. I was envisioning an attack when stopped, but geared up (think carjacking or a parking lot attack while gearing up, threats come when you don't expect them). FWIW, the only time I've felt a potential
need for a firearm while riding was when I was mobbed by three homeless crazies while stuck in traffic in Detroit. Having a gun buried under my gear and inoperable with gloves would not have helped anything had the need arose. To each their own, but I feel if the weapon isn't accessable and usable, then it serves no purpose other than to inflict additional injury in an accident. YMMV.
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Old 04-30-2010, 07:14 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingspan
I was mobbed by three homeless crazies while stuck in traffic in Detroit. .
This is my life....I ride and work in Detroit, and have been rolling on the Cass Corridor, and some scary MF'rs walking in the street right around you.

My S/W 337pd J-frame is carried in the inside pocket on the left side of my Brooks Leather bike jacket in a Uncle Mikes #3 pocket holster. Two safari speed loads in the front left pocket.

I have, when not at work, going to work or the ride home, carried a Glock 36, open carry while on the bike. It is a cop magnet, and a guy I know that rides with the Detroit Highwayman MC, told me I was a stupid MF'r for doing that....so I quit carrying open.

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Old 04-30-2010, 07:18 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderlost
I have a CCW and multiple firearms but rarely carry when traveling because of concerns when crossing state lines where CCW may not be valid (ie felony in NY state). Also, like most people I shoot right handed which wouldn't work while on the bike. Off the bike there have been a few times I wished I had a weapon for security, but in actuality nothing happened anyway. Now I carry a can of pepper spray which is legal in most localities (except traveling to Canada). That and a knife would cover all eventualities except for full on craziness which I hope I am smart enough to recognize and avoid.

Paul
Yeah in Michigan, we'll accept your out of state CCW permit...but you'll need to leave the pepper spray at home. I know some that carry wasp spray for personal protection in lieu of pepper.
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Old 04-30-2010, 07:30 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingspan
To those who carry while riding, have you practiced shooting and jam clearing with your riding gloves on? Something to think about.
I have taken my summer riding gloves to the shooting range before and, yes, I can pull the gun from my riding pants pocket and shoot it with my gloves on.
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Old 04-30-2010, 07:49 AM   #40
DriveShaft
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingspan
Guys, I understand the importance of conceilment and do CCW myself. I am not saying people shouldn't carry. However, there are ways around the issue that don't involve having the gun on your body. It just takes a new routine, some forethought, and practice. All things that should be a part of everyones CCW habits. Fanny packs and the like only scream "gun" to gun guys. The rest of the public will only question your fasion sense. That is the real reason most guys dismiss the idea, better to risk falling on your sidearm than have people think you carry a purse.

As for the glove comment, I was not suggesting people shoot while riding like some sort of hollywood farse. I was envisioning an attack when stopped, but geared up (think carjacking or a parking lot attack while gearing up, threats come when you don't expect them). FWIW, the only time I've felt a potential
need for a firearm while riding was when I was mobbed by three homeless crazies while stuck in traffic in Detroit. Having a gun buried under my gear and inoperable with gloves would not have helped anything had the need arose. To each their own, but I feel if the weapon isn't accessable and usable, then it serves no purpose other than to inflict additional injury in an accident. YMMV.
See, that is a classic straw man argument. Yes, operating a weapon while wearing motorcycle equipment might be difficult (not impossible, but foolish to depend on w/o practice, I agree). But you argue that since that is difficult, there could be no other purpose other than incurring additional injury, and that is simply not true. The fact that you benefit from avoiding open transfer is completely lost on your argument. It makes your routine more manageable, and that in itself is an every day convenience and tactical benefit that some feel is worth the risk of potential injury. The purpose it serves is obviously valued by at least the original poster.

Furthermore, the infliction of additional injury that you refer to is solely a risk, not a certainty. Some would argue it is a pretty remote risk at that. Concealed carry is an activity riddled with inconveniences, responsibility, and risk. The possibility of additional injury can be viewed as yet another risk/responsiblity one bears w/ the right.

Of course your mileage may vary, which is why looking at how to do it is worth a discussion.

DriveShaft screwed with this post 04-30-2010 at 07:57 AM
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Old 04-30-2010, 08:02 AM   #41
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How to blow your balls off while riding
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:27 AM   #42
Dakar Dan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlh62c
If you feel the need to carry....by all means do so. Your 'Riding Your Own Ride'. But do it legally. If you don't you should be prepared for the consequences both physically and financially.

I've never felt a need to carry here in the US. But working in Israel was different. There were times I felt everybody was carrying a gun but me. I would give the solders I worked with rides to the nearest bus stop. The car was packed shoulder to shoulder, everyone with either a UZI or M16.

http://www.serialno3817131.com/

daryl
We had a former Israeli paramedic train with us a few years ago. She found it humorous that medics packed more heat in Israel than tactical cops do here.
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:52 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakar Dan
We had a former Israeli paramedic train with us a few years ago. She found it humorous that medics packed more heat in Israel than tactical cops do here.
You know...Isreal was one place I felt little need to carry, specifically because *everybody* & their mother had something strapped to their back. The girls in the nightclubs packed more heat than our police. Two things were de riguer..heat & dhades
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Old 04-30-2010, 11:57 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DriveShaft
See, that is a classic straw man argument. Yes, operating a weapon while wearing motorcycle equipment might be difficult (not impossible, but foolish to depend on w/o practice, I agree). But you argue that since that is difficult, there could be no other purpose other than incurring additional injury, and that is simply not true.
You're taking that out of context. The comment you refer to was in response to someone who said they carry for protection at their destination and not for the time spent on the bike. I suggest that if you aren't carrying for the ride, then an alternate means of carry is worth exploring. Also, I didn't say one couldn't use a firearm in their riding gear/gloves. I asked how many had actually tried to and trained for the situation? I wouldn't be surprised if some reading this thread had never fired their gun while wearing their riding gear. If one wants to carry on their person while in riding gear, they should practice that. It might not be an issue, or it could be impossible. During an emergency is the wrong time to find out that the armored riding glove your wearing won't allow you to operate a gun correctly.

Quote:
The fact that you benefit from avoiding open transfer is completely lost on your argument.
Wrong. I am offering the third alternative which you seem to dismiss. There are ways of carrying on the bike that don't add risk of injury OR require open transfer. There are several concealment options (such as the fanny pack, etc) that would allow the gun to be carried without ever being openly transferred. It will take some planning, practice, and training but it CAN be done.

We don't have to agree that it's the best option, but at least admit that it's possible.

Quote:
Furthermore, the infliction of additional injury that you refer to is solely a risk, not a certainty. Some would argue it is a pretty remote risk at that. Concealed carry is an activity riddled with inconveniences, responsibility, and risk. The possibility of additional injury can be viewed as yet another risk/responsiblity one bears w/ the right.
Just as needing a gun for protection is a not a certainty. You're correct that CCW is about inconveniences, responsibility, and risk. I'm saying that adding a bit of inconvenience can reduce a risk. To me the "open transfer" argument is a bit like those who don't wear proper riding gear because it's hot and uncomfortable. Sure it is, but for me it's worth it to reduce the risk of injury. Others are comfortable with no helmet and a t-shirt. Some are happy carrying a lump of steel under their arm or on their waistband. I'd rather have it somewhere else, but still accessible.

Do you really feel you're more vulnerable to some threat requiring a firearm than you are of having an accident? We all have our own perception of danger and weigh our risks accordingly. Personally, I'm much more worried about being assaulted by a soccer mom in an SUV than I am a criminal with a gun or knife.

One more time, I am not anti-gun or anti-CCW. I'm saying consider ALL the risks of how you carry and train accordingly. That is 100% applicable to the original poster's question.
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Old 04-30-2010, 12:12 PM   #45
dlh62c
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DriveShaft
You know...Isreal was one place I felt little need to carry, specifically because *everybody* & their mother had something strapped to their back. The girls in the nightclubs packed more heat than our police. Two things were de riguer..heat & dhades
I agree with you....Its just that everybody else had one and I didn't. I offered to sleep with one of the girls if she would take me to the desert and let me pull the pins on a couple of hand grenades. No dice.

When I leave the house in the morning I'm armed with nothing more than my intellect and wit. But I do understand for some this could prove to be disastrous.

daryl
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