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Old 05-01-2010, 11:59 AM   #61
Signal
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So....

Someone needs to invent a rib/kidney support belt, that has a built in frontal/side holster ......
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:46 PM   #62
DriveShaft
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingspan
You're taking that out of context. The comment you refer to was in response to someone who said they carry for protection at their destination and not for the time spent on the bike. I suggest that if you aren't carrying for the ride, then an alternate means of carry is worth exploring. ...

Wrong. I am offering the third alternative which you seem to dismiss. There are ways of carrying on the bike that don't add risk of injury OR require open transfer. There are several concealment options (such as the fanny pack, etc) that would allow the gun to be carried without ever being openly transferred. It will take some planning, practice, and training but it CAN be done.

We don't have to agree that it's the best option, but at least admit that it's possible.
You're right, there are alternatives, and I don't mean to dismiss them. I do share the same notion you (and others) have mentioned, though, that a fag bag does scream "gun," unless of course...the wearer happens to look like a fag...then it just screams...fag.

In general, I think those who typically rely on an IWB tucked CCW approach find it difficult to transition easily off the bike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingspan
...

Do you really feel you're more vulnerable to some threat requiring a firearm than you are of having an accident? We all have our own perception of danger and weigh our risks accordingly. Personally, I'm much more worried about being assaulted by a soccer mom in an SUV than I am a criminal with a gun or knife.
Which threat I'm more vulnerable to doesn't really factor much into my decision, because distracted soccer moms breaking my hip and whackos poppin' a cap in me both fall into a real remote pool of possibilities, whereas the benefits of working out a concealed carry option that *works* with your well-practiced routine is something that you can benefit from daily. I can't tell you how many years have gone by w/o either the crazy soccer mom scenario or the whacko scenario playing out in reality.

Btw, I don't mean to imply that I think you're anti CCW or anything (not that you should care). Sorry if that seemed like the point I was getting at. Obviously you're not. We're just on different parts of the spectrum in terms of what risks we deem comfortable, and where we place our concerns.
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Old 05-01-2010, 03:30 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DriveShaft
We're just on different parts of the spectrum in terms of what risks we deem comfortable, and where we place our concerns.
I agree 100%.
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Old 05-01-2010, 06:16 PM   #64
SkinnyTiger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hugemoth
I feel sorry for those who feel the need to carry a gun. Living in fear must be a drag.
I think it was Grossman who said - "Prepare for the unthinkable as it were inevitable!"



Depending on what size gun you have (SW 38airweight) Good CCW option - Forcefield Back Protector/kidney support belt- with 5.11's all velcro backup holster.

Really - in the infamous words of Eastwood, you just have to ask yourself one question "Do I feel lucky?" - Well do ya, punk?

It's not out of fear that one carries - but confidence
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:25 PM   #65
Law Dawg (ret)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hugemoth
I feel sorry for those who feel the need to carry a gun. Living in fear must be a drag.
You are my bread and butter...thank you very much! Always glad to respond to your location to take a report/call an ambulance/start homicide proceedings/etc. Note how those things don't actually save your bacon? You think I give a poop about that? Heck no, I'm armed all the time as are most other folk who don't like to risk being victims. Thanks for your business though.

I use a "fag bag" and even had a dedicated concealment bag in pink once. That one really threw off folks...like sneaking my gatt into Magic Mountain (they don't let LEOs bring in their heaters). Been carrying that way for the past 15 years and have had zero bad reactions...PERIOD (and I notice reactions for a living). Frankly I don't care what I look like but do care about efficient and safe carry. If it helps me get the drop on the bad guy, I'll even act like a fag. ;)
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Old 05-02-2010, 05:28 AM   #66
scdddvr
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I keep it as simple as I can. Ruger LCP in an Uncle Mikes #3 in the front pant pocket on my riding pants, Its a larger pocket. For years I carried a 38 +P or a 45 ACP. They just became a bit cumbersome. I have carried in the Tank bag and the Panniers. The pants pocket works for me. I have the Firearm with me on refuel stops/Breaks/Chow or overnight stops.

I have to conduct firearm transfer frequently due to work locations and other facilities that do not allow firearms inside. The Small package that I carry is quickly and easily transferred and locked.

This discussion is Great! I like seeing other options. One thing that I regularly seem to find is the use of the word "Weapon" when describing the Firearms crowd. Yes a Firearm is a Form of a weapon or weapons system. But I struggle daily in the use of that term.

1. An instrument of attack or defense in combat, as a gun, missile, or sword.
2. Zoology A part or organ, such as a claw or stinger, used by an animal in attack or defense.
3. A means used to defend against or defeat another: Logic was her weapon.

I am no scholar but I contend that during a violent event, A stick a pen or spoon, whatever you can get your hands on if used, is then considered a weapon. My point? Call the tool what it is. It is a Firearm. Just MHO and a pet peeve for years.

Thanks again for the Posting. BZ
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Old 05-02-2010, 07:48 AM   #67
swingset
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziepan
The reality of using a gun to defend your self in the US is you very well might end up in prison if the police become involved. In your own home in most states you are usually covered but out on the streets? Hope you can afford a jury trail or get you piece to the bottom of the lake.
I don't see where you would form that opinion. Every day people use guns in their defense, and are neither tried nor arrested. If you are in fear for your life or from imminent physical harm, chances are very good you will not be in any trouble with the law if you have to use a gun to defend yourself in much of the US. As long as you're carrying it legally, use it prudently, and legitimately use it for self-defense the chances are pretty good you will not have legal problems....barring a civil suit by your attacker or his family (a whole different matter).

Some states are worse than others, with regard to legal expectations to flee, but as I said if you are using a gun to defend yourself, it's actually pretty rare that you're the one who goes to jail. A lot has to go wrong for that to happen, if you're following the law.
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Old 05-02-2010, 11:06 AM   #68
ziepan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swingset
I don't see where you would form that opinion. Every day people use guns in their defense, and are neither tried nor arrested.
I think Bernhard Goetz is probably the poster child of getting prosecuted for self defense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Goetz

I know one guy who had a car load of gang bangers who were mad because they got thrown out of a party drive by and open fire on his home. He returned fire and an hour later the police came and arrested him and said a 15yr old girl in the car was dead. His trail didn't go so well, He did 5years.

I know another guy that confronted a robber out side of his garage and was attacked he shot the guy and was charged with attempted murder. He won a jury trail but it cost him thousands and many sleepless nights.

Not all self defense situations are black and white. You get in a situation with a group of people and when the police come it is going to be your word against theirs the police arn't probably just going to say we know you are the good guy.

I am all for self defense but it can be risky lots of people say I'll just shot the "bad guy" not everyone who gets in a confrontation with you will be considered the "bad guy" when the police come. Defend your self hell yeah.. but be careful about the repercussions.

Another thing to think about is what happens if you get in a confrontation (say road rage, dinged car in the parking lot ) and some guy starts thrown punches? Are you going to shot him? shot and unarmed man? and claim he hit you?
Grapple with him? what if he gains control of your gun? Your fucked. legally and mortally.

I,m not against self defense I am all for it I am just saying that is is not always black and white and you really have to be careful. All is fair in war and people use every tool they can get and exploit in war, manipulative the story, surround you with a group, mace in the eyes, etc.

A gun is just one weapon in war and not always the ultimate wild card.

ziepan screwed with this post 05-02-2010 at 11:37 AM
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Old 05-02-2010, 11:06 AM   #69
Giuseppe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSD4ME
What type of rounds do you use in the J frame?
I've had good luck with Remington Golden Saber +P in my .38 Special J-Frame. For a .357 Magnum J-Frame, you can also try the Golden Saber .357 125 grain round. It's loaded a little less "hot" than most .357 loads, so it's manageable in a smaller or shorter-barrelled guns.
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Old 05-02-2010, 02:23 PM   #70
swingset
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziepan
I think Bernhard Goetz is probably the poster child of getting prosecuted for self defense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Goetz

I'm well aware of him. He doesn't disprove my point, legally his was a bad shoot. Also, he was in a very anti-gun area to begin with, and is an exception not a rule.

I know one guy who had a car load of gang bangers who were mad because they got thrown out of a party drive by and open fire on his home. He returned fire and an hour later the police came and arrested him and said a 15yr old girl in the car was dead. His trail didn't go so well, He did 5years.

Again, that's a bad shoot.

I know another guy that confronted a robber out side of his garage and was attacked he shot the guy and was charged with attempted murder. He won a jury trail but it cost him thousands and many sleepless nights.

You sure know a lot of guys.

Not all self defense situations are black and white. You get in a situation with a group of people and when the police come it is going to be your word against theirs the police arn't probably just going to say we know you are the good guy.

You're correct, they're not all black and white, but if you shoot to defend yourself from an attacker, more times than not you will be in the right. Which is a worse fate, being dead and legally clear or having to deal with the aftermath and still alive?

I am all for self defense but it can be risky lots of people say I'll just shot the "bad guy" not everyone who gets in a confrontation with you will be considered the "bad guy" when the police come. Defend your self hell yeah.. but be careful about the repercussions.

Another thing to think about is what happens if you get in a confrontation (say road rage, dinged car in the parking lot ) and some guy starts thrown punches? Are you going to shot him? shot and unarmed man? and claim he hit you?
Grapple with him? what if he gains control of your gun? Your fucked. legally and mortally.

If someone attacks you, in most areas of the country where you're legally allowed to be armed in public, you're justified in stopping that threat. Period.


I,m not against self defense I am all for it I am just saying that is is not always black and white and you really have to be careful. All is fair in war and people use every tool they can get and exploit in war, manipulative the story, surround you with a group, mace in the eyes, etc.

A gun is just one weapon in war and not always the ultimate wild card.
For every example you can give me of someone being unfairly prosecuted, I could give you ten legally justified shootings. They happen very very frequently. If it's a good shoot, it's pretty damned rare that you end up charged with a crime, and even then it's better than being dead or severely injured.
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Old 05-02-2010, 03:25 PM   #71
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The jurisdiction where a shooting happens can make a big difference on the outcome. A lot of states have been adopting the Castle doctrine (MO for one) that says you don't have to retreat if confronted and we are allowed to defend our property. I for one will try to avoid trouble. This is the second time today I have recommended this book. In the Gravest Extreme by Masaad Ayoob. He is a police officer that makes a pretty good living writing on gun issues. He is also called upon as an expert witness in a lot of shooting trials. He says that even if the police don't charge the family will probably sue. He is pretty knowledgeable.
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Old 05-02-2010, 04:43 PM   #72
ktrout01
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I carry on a daily basis and train weekly at the range. On the bike I've been carrying a Ruger LCP in the lower cargo pocket of my riding pants in a Nemisis pocket holster. I also carry either a Glock 26 or a Colt Defender 90 in a DeSantis cozy Partner IWB holster. I've used this style holster for years and can't say enough about it. DeSantis makes a quality product and it isn't real expensive as holsters go. Colder weather makes for a lot more options for carry but I like to use the same holster regardless of weapon carried. It allows for easier drawing in a stressful situation and it's always better to keep things as you train.
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Old 05-02-2010, 06:02 PM   #73
ziepan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swingset
For every example you can give me of someone being unfairly prosecuted, I could give you ten legally justified shootings. They happen very very frequently. If it's a good shoot, it's pretty damned rare that you end up charged with a crime, and even then it's better than being dead or severely injured.
I won't debate the point that theirs is tons of legally justified shootings, there is and guns are a great security and safety tool. And I do believe that people carrying guns makes a safer society (at least in the developed world and an civilized society).
But I don't think it is so rare for people to be prosecuted for defending themselves. Most fights I have seen or heard about the police come to they just write tickets.. They don't care who got "attacked" who "started it" they just write tickets and arrest people. The court system can sort it out and make thousands of dollars in the mean time.

A lot of the gun advocates like to publish all of the good stories "Homeowner shoots robber" but they usually don't publish more grey stories like " fight in _____ town leads to one person shot and another arrested"

As for a "good shot" I don't think it is always about how good of a shot you are but how situations unfold.

You make a good point it's better than being dead or severely injured which I agree. But I think a lot of people get delusions of always being the TV white hat cowboy. You have to become a cop (or join the army on the winning team) to always shoot people and be in the legal right.
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Old 05-07-2010, 06:33 AM   #74
Bucho
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If I have my little gun, it goes in the zippered chest pocket on the Aerostich, it sets up for a left hand draw, but I can shoot fairly well w/ my left.

If I have my larger gun it goes in a shoulder rig, Galco "jack ass" holster. I like the shoulder rigs an find them comfortable, but I know a lot of people who say it hurts thier back.
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Old 05-07-2010, 01:24 PM   #75
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Ok so you're riding your bigass bulky ADV bikes w/ bigass bulky aluminum saddle bags, bigass bulky fiberglass tail boxes, bigass bulky boots, bigass bulky pants w/ bigass bulky padding, bigass bulky jackets w/ bigass bulky padding, bigass bulky hydration packs, bigass bulky gloves, and bigass bulky helmets, and you're hunched over bigass bulky tankbags... and someone's gonna see your fag bag among all that junk and say "Ehhhh he's carrying."
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