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Old 01-13-2013, 07:10 AM   #136
RTLover
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Originally Posted by 100mpg View Post
the first one found him guilt and he was sentenced to 10 or 11 years....but somehow he is getting a new trial.

while this is inexcusable, I don't consider the P/T LEO the same as a criminal who has the mindset to shoot anyone who gets in the way of their crimes. I do consider him to be total unfit and unprepared to carry a weapon. But I dont know what the punishment should be.

What has happend to that guy and the manner that it happened will affect him for ever. Everyday he wakes up paralyzed he will think, holy shit, I was shot by a cop.
'Somehow he is getting a new trial.' It's not that complicated and this is not inexcusable, it's part of the judicial system. The Appeals Court ruled that the jury may have been improperly instructed. So now there will be a new trial and the jury instructions will be different.

For what it's worth, as a retired LEO and based on the video and news article, I concur with the other LEO group that the officer was way out of line.
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:26 PM   #137
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'Somehow he is getting a new trial.' It's not that complicated and this is not inexcusable, it's part of the judicial system. The Appeals Court ruled that the jury may have been improperly instructed. So now there will be a new trial and the jury instructions will be different.
the same part that lets pedophiles, rapists and murders out? Guess it is fair then...

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The panel ruled that the jury was not given proper instructions of law and so did not have proper information before deliberations.
Really? WTF?! You would have thought someone would have mentioned that 2 minutes into the trial!!! And I am wondering if the cop gave the guy on the bike proper instruction before shooting him in the spine.
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:59 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by 100mpg View Post
the same part that lets pedophiles, rapists and murders out? Guess it is fair then...



Really? WTF?! You would have thought someone would have mentioned that 2 minutes into the trial!!! And I am wondering if the cop gave the guy on the bike proper instruction before shooting him in the spine.
No one ever said the system was infallible, or at least no one who has at least a room temperature IQ. Do a bit of research and you'll find case after case of people who have been convicted of, even executed for, crimes they didn't commit. And on the other side, people acquitted of crimes they did commit.

Officer White was convicted and sentenced. As was his right, he appealed the conviction. Appeals are reviewed on the legal aspects, not on the evidence. In this case, the court split 2-1 that the jury instructions may have been faulty. BTW, jury instructions are given just before the jury retires to deliberate, not two minutes into the trial. Instructions can be very lengthy and technical. Think of them as guidelines. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_instructions

Since the same jury cannot serve on the re-trial, a new jury will be empanelled for the second trial. Both the prosecution and the defense will have fine-tuned their presentations but essentially the same evidence will be introduced. This is not a complicated case as I see it. The facts are minimal. The issue is whether White was justified in what he did. The case will turn on whether or not the jury believes him.
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:57 AM   #139
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Its not that uncommon for an officer to draw his weapon on a traffic stop. There is no such thing as a "routine" traffic stop, it is always an unknown danger. I will pull mine sometimes as I exit my police car and approach a vehicle. However I dont point it at somebody unless they pose some sort of threat. I generally hold it down behind my leg and the citizen rarely ever realizes my weapon left the holster.
Wow, that's messed up. I have never seen that before. I love the US but certain aspects freak me out.
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:52 AM   #140
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Wow, that's messed up. I have never seen that before. I love the US but certain aspects freak me out.
I've had one pointed directly at me and been told to "GET ON THE GROUND!".

For good reason though. As soon as I stopped, I jumped out of my truck and stuck my hand behind the seat, all in one quick motion. I knew that's where the lic. plate that had fallen from my rear window was located. The cop didn't.

Oh how we laughed.

30 seconds later we were both laughing about it. Seriously. It was tense for a second though.
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:30 AM   #141
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Wow, that's messed up. I have never seen that before. I love the US but certain aspects freak me out.
Reiterating what he said- traffic stops are [widely believed*] the most dangerous thing your average police officer will do. Having stopped someone, they never know if they've got Aunt Linda hurrying home from bible study to get supper on, or a sociopath that ran out of their prescription and self-medicating with meth and an LSD chaser.

*A fast pass through teh Googles suggests somewhere between 10-18% of LEOs being killed are in traffic stops- an average of eight a year, with assault (against the officer) being 6000-8000/year- about 1 stop in 10,000.

http://blog.lib.umn.edu/jbs/Criminal...sAssaulted.pdf
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:41 AM   #142
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Reiterating what he said- traffic stops are [widely believed*] the most dangerous thing your average police officer will do. Having stopped someone, they never know if they've got Aunt Linda hurrying home from bible study to get supper on, or a sociopath that ran out of their prescription and self-medicating with meth and an LSD chaser.

*A fast pass through teh Googles suggests somewhere between 10-18% of LEOs being killed are in traffic stops- an average of eight a year, with assault (against the officer) being 6000-8000/year- about 1 stop in 10,000.

http://blog.lib.umn.edu/jbs/Criminal...sAssaulted.pdf
That's all nice and dandy, but the police officer still needs to be relied upon to make a correct assessment of the situation.
Otherwise we'll get to the point where *being stopped by the police* is the most dangerous thing that can happen to you.
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:13 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by 100mpg View Post
the first one found him guilt and he was sentenced to 10 or 11 years....but somehow he is getting a new trial.

while this is inexcusable, I don't consider the P/T LEO the same as a criminal who has the mindset to shoot anyone who gets in the way of their crimes. I do consider him to be total unfit and unprepared to carry a weapon. But I dont know what the punishment should be.

What has happend to that guy and the manner that it happened will affect him for ever. Everyday he wakes up paralyzed he will think, holy shit, I was shot by a cop.
At a MINIMUM the same punishment an every day citizen would get for shooting a man in the back. It should actually be MORE since he is supposed to be a trained LEO...
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:46 AM   #144
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That's all nice and dandy, but the police officer still needs to be relied upon to make a correct assessment of the situation.
Otherwise we'll get to the point where *being stopped by the police* is the most dangerous thing that can happen to you.
Violent agreement. In the case in question, Barney there should have kept his bullet in his shirt pocket.

Also read carefully what I wrote- "widely believed". It appears that actual attempts to pin down numbers has been difficult. I can certainly agree that it's probably one of the more anxiety inducing things a LEO does.

Makes me wonder about the applicability of part time / volunteer / reserve officers on the front lines(sic).

[He types, while watching half a dozen LEOs and two K9s doing a door-to-door looking for a home invasion suspect...]
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:51 AM   #145
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At a MINIMUM the same punishment an every day citizen would get for shooting a man in the back. It should actually be MORE since he is supposed to be a trained LEO...
The (overturned) conviction was for "Felonious Assault with a Firearm", which sounds about like what I'd expect a ganbanger to get charged with.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:19 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by 100mpg View Post
the same part that lets pedophiles, rapists and murders out? Guess it is fair then...



Really? WTF?! You would have thought someone would have mentioned that 2 minutes into the trial!!! And I am wondering if the cop gave the guy on the bike proper instruction before shooting him in the spine.

Jury instructions are given before they head back to deliberations.

It is a common tactic among defense attorneys. If their client is found guilty, they will turn around and claim that the jury wasn't given enough options under which they could have found the defendant not guilty, or guilty of a lesser offense.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:38 AM   #147
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Jury instructions are given before they head back to deliberations.

It is a common tactic among defense attorneys. If their client is found guilty, they will turn around and claim that the jury wasn't given enough options under which they could have found the defendant not guilty, or guilty of a lesser offense.
True, but then appeals are often frivolous. The overwhelming percentage of appeals are denied. An appeal is often how the defense attorney shows the client how hard-working he/she is, knowing that it's a long shot. Appeals courts don't deal with evidence, just points of law.
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:43 PM   #148
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I can feel my blood boil on this one, that is all I can say.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:04 PM   #149
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BAD COPS...
Not so much with the old school cops, but the new breed are scary.



The officer will not be fired and the woman has filed a civil suit.

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Old 01-14-2013, 03:05 PM   #150
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I bet he feels like a big man now, throwing a 90lb woman to the ground like a doll. what a fucking psycho.
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BAD COPS...
Not so much with the old school cops, but the new breed are scary.



The officer will not be fired and the woman has filed a civil suit.

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