ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Road warriors
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-09-2013, 08:58 AM   #3451
jas67
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Oddometer: 736
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0ldhippie View Post
I swear there are more Guzzy folks on this forum than the number of bikes Guzzy sells??? Pretty much an Italian sportster in my mind??
The only thing the V7 has in common with a Sportster (aside from having two wheels) is a V-twin engine, but with completely different character, and that is mounted with the crank longitudinally, instead across the frame.

The V7 has shaft drive (Sportster = belt drive), "standard ergos", and is at least 150 lbs lighter than a Sportster. Now, with "mid-mount" controls, a Sportster is fairly "standard" in it's ergos, but still more cruiserish. The character of the engines is completely different. The V7 motor makes its best power above 4,000 RPM (the 2012 and early motor are happiest above 4,500 RPM), and the Sportster motors are tuned more for lower end torque, and are perfectly happy to cruise at 3,000 RPM (esp. the 1200).

Now, every any HD fans get their panties in a twist, I'm not dissing on the Sportster, I'm just pointing out that the V7 and the Sportster are very different bikes.

For that matter, all Guzzi engines are very different in character than HD engines. Guzzi engines (very early single cylinder models excluded) are all 90 degree V-twins, where the HD motors are 45 degree V-twins. This leads to very different exhaust notes and vibrations. The 45 degree twin is what gives the HD the "potato-potato" exhaust note that fans loves so much. A 90 degree V-twin has near perfect primary and secondary balance, where the 45 degree V-twins are far from it. Guzzi engines' best torque curve is typically about 1,000 RPM higher than HD engines. The new California 1400's torque curve starts out much lower, more like a Harley, but still revs quite nicely.
__________________
2013 Ducati Monster 796
Moto Guzzi: 2013 V7 Racer, 2006 Breva 1100
BMW: 1973 SWB R75/5 "Toaster", 2003 F650GS Dakar
Honda: 01 VFR800, 93 VFR400R(NC30), plus many vintage Hondas.
Scooters: 2007 Vespa GTS250ie, 2009 Kymco Agility 125
jas67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2013, 09:54 AM   #3452
Cortez
BAZINGA!
 
Cortez's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Croatia
Oddometer: 6,664
I don't think he meant that comparison in such a literal way..
__________________
'08 Yamaha FZ6n S2 ABS

SOLD: '03 Peugeot Speedfight2, '07 Kawasaki ER6F ABS, '06 Kymco Agility 125, '12 Kymco Downtown 300i ABS
My Flickr gallery --- My 500px gallery
Cortez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2013, 10:09 AM   #3453
Randy
Beastly Adventurer
 
Randy's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Newnan, GA USA
Oddometer: 2,251
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas67 View Post
The only thing the V7 has in common with a Sportster (aside from having two wheels) is a V-twin engine, but with completely different character, and that is mounted with the crank longitudinally, instead across the frame.

The V7 has shaft drive (Sportster = belt drive), "standard ergos", and is at least 150 lbs lighter than a Sportster. Now, with "mid-mount" controls, a Sportster is fairly "standard" in it's ergos, but still more cruiserish. The character of the engines is completely different. The V7 motor makes its best power above 4,000 RPM (the 2012 and early motor are happiest above 4,500 RPM), and the Sportster motors are tuned more for lower end torque, and are perfectly happy to cruise at 3,000 RPM (esp. the 1200).

Now, every any HD fans get their panties in a twist, I'm not dissing on the Sportster, I'm just pointing out that the V7 and the Sportster are very different bikes.

For that matter, all Guzzi engines are very different in character than HD engines. Guzzi engines (very early single cylinder models excluded) are all 90 degree V-twins, where the HD motors are 45 degree V-twins. This leads to very different exhaust notes and vibrations. The 45 degree twin is what gives the HD the "potato-potato" exhaust note that fans loves so much. A 90 degree V-twin has near perfect primary and secondary balance, where the 45 degree V-twins are far from it. Guzzi engines' best torque curve is typically about 1,000 RPM higher than HD engines. The new California 1400's torque curve starts out much lower, more like a Harley, but still revs quite nicely.
Very good comparo. That are some of the differences, for better or worse, depending on your tastes and preferences. One area that I think the Sportster has the V7 beat is in power. The 1200 Sporties make pretty decent power actually, and their not too hard to make make a good deal more. I love the V7, and maybe one day I'll own one... when and if Guzzi ever gets them to make (what I feel is) sufficient power. Another couple of things would be dealer network and parts availability, both OEM and aftermarket. The Sportster has such a following that there is a huge amount of aftermarket support that allows you to make it be pretty much anything you want it to be, from a laid-back cruiser, to a Scrambler, to a Cafe Racer.








With the MG you're much more limited on the options.

Again, not to "dis" the V7 at all. I think they're very cool bikes.

But, after years of being anti-Harley, I got my Sportster earlier this year and have found it to be much more enjoyable than I ever imagined it could be.



__________________
"some might call it a 'midlife crisis', I prefer to call it a renaissance of thought and action"... "Life is too short to do anything other than that about which you are absolutely passionate."..."Adventure is a frame of mind, set upon by action, not defined by equipment."..."It all boils down to your ability to say "SCREW IT" and really mean it"....Randy
Randy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2013, 11:25 AM   #3454
ttpete
Rectum Non Bustibus
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Dearborn, MI
Oddometer: 5,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy View Post
Very good comparo. That are some of the differences, for better or worse, depending on your tastes and preferences. One area that I think the Sportster has the V7 beat is in power. The 1200 Sporties make pretty decent power actually, and their not too hard to make make a good deal more. I love the V7, and maybe one day I'll own one... when and if Guzzi ever gets them to make (what I feel is) sufficient power. Another couple of things would be dealer network and parts availability, both OEM and aftermarket. The Sportster has such a following that there is a huge amount of aftermarket support that allows you to make it be pretty much anything you want it to be, from a laid-back cruiser, to a Scrambler, to a Cafe Racer.
You might be right about a V7, but there are other Guzzis that I think would do a lot better. Or you might try another V-twin, a Ducati Diavel, the ultimate cruiser. Try to get a demo ride on one sometime. It'll give you a different outlook on twins.

One thing about those Sporty photos, why do they have the same tiny front brake my KLR has? Is it a reflection of the engine power or of the type of rider?
__________________
10 Ducati 1098 Streetfighter S - "Sleipnir"
09 Kaw Versys
67 Triumph Bonneville TT Special
"The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" _____ Margaret Thatcher
ttpete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2013, 12:49 PM   #3455
C/1/509
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Oddometer: 2,548


I still don't love the funky looking headlights, but otherwise it is a badass bike.
C/1/509 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2013, 12:58 PM   #3456
motorat
Studly Adventurer
 
motorat's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: redwood coast, nor cal
Oddometer: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy View Post







i like this one!!!
__________________
to ignore the facts does not change the facts
motorat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2013, 01:15 PM   #3457
Randy
Beastly Adventurer
 
Randy's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Newnan, GA USA
Oddometer: 2,251
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
You might be right about a V7, but there are other Guzzis that I think would do a lot better. Or you might try another V-twin, a Ducati Diavel, the ultimate cruiser. Try to get a demo ride on one sometime. It'll give you a different outlook on twins.
On the power front, no doubt. But when it comes to dealer and aftermarket support, there's really not much comparison between H-D and Guzzi, or much of anything else European for that matter. And don't get me wrong, I love Guzzis, and Ducatis. I already have a strong predisposition for twins. Of the seven bikes currently in my garage, five of them are twins; one 90* (Duc), one 180* boxer (BMW), one parallel (Yamaha), and two 45* (Buell and H-D). Nothing quite like the feel or sound of a nice v-twin, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
One thing about those Sporty photos, why do they have the same tiny front brake my KLR has? Is it a reflection of the engine power or of the type of rider?
Your KLR has a brake like this?




Wow! I bet that thing stops like RIGHT NOW! I know it works pretty good on my Sporty.


__________________
"some might call it a 'midlife crisis', I prefer to call it a renaissance of thought and action"... "Life is too short to do anything other than that about which you are absolutely passionate."..."Adventure is a frame of mind, set upon by action, not defined by equipment."..."It all boils down to your ability to say "SCREW IT" and really mean it"....Randy
Randy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2013, 01:26 PM   #3458
BCinMD
Gnarly Adventurer
 
BCinMD's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Ellicott City, MD
Oddometer: 103
The practical and pragmatic side of me would be thrilled to upgrade from my little TU250 to this:




But if the passion / emotion-driven side of me had its way, this would be in my garage...

__________________
'05 Suzuki SV650N
'11 Suzuki TU250
- so long, l'il thumper
'09 Kymco Xciting 250Ri
- gone
'96 Nighthawk 750
- gone but not forgotten
BCinMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2013, 01:28 PM   #3459
Cortez
BAZINGA!
 
Cortez's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Croatia
Oddometer: 6,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCinMD View Post
The practical and pragmatic side of me would be thrilled to upgrade from my little TU250 to this:




But if the passion / emotion-driven side of me had its way, this would be in my garage...

I like the way you think.. and your current/past bikes.
All make sense to me!
__________________
'08 Yamaha FZ6n S2 ABS

SOLD: '03 Peugeot Speedfight2, '07 Kawasaki ER6F ABS, '06 Kymco Agility 125, '12 Kymco Downtown 300i ABS
My Flickr gallery --- My 500px gallery
Cortez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2013, 01:35 PM   #3460
Randy
Beastly Adventurer
 
Randy's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Newnan, GA USA
Oddometer: 2,251
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCinMD View Post
But if the passion / emotion-driven side of me had its way, this would be in my garage...

Why else ride a motorcycle? If it moves you and you can swing it, live your dream while you can. Life is too short to do anything else...

See my sig line...

__________________
"some might call it a 'midlife crisis', I prefer to call it a renaissance of thought and action"... "Life is too short to do anything other than that about which you are absolutely passionate."..."Adventure is a frame of mind, set upon by action, not defined by equipment."..."It all boils down to your ability to say "SCREW IT" and really mean it"....Randy
Randy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2013, 01:53 PM   #3461
ttpete
Rectum Non Bustibus
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Dearborn, MI
Oddometer: 5,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy View Post
On the power front, no doubt. But when it comes to dealer and aftermarket support, there's really not much comparison between H-D and Guzzi, or much of anything else European for that matter. And don't get me wrong, I love Guzzis, and Ducatis. I already have a strong predisposition for twins. Of the seven bikes currently in my garage, five of them are twins; one 90* (Duc), one 180* boxer (BMW), one parallel (Yamaha), and two 45* (Buell and H-D). Nothing quite like the feel or sound of a nice v-twin, IMO.



Your KLR has a brake like this?




Wow! I bet that thing stops like RIGHT NOW! I know it works pretty good on my Sporty.


I guess it must be related to the horsepower, then. My Ducati uses two 320 mm rotors and radial calipers for the same engine size..........
__________________
10 Ducati 1098 Streetfighter S - "Sleipnir"
09 Kaw Versys
67 Triumph Bonneville TT Special
"The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" _____ Margaret Thatcher
ttpete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2013, 02:05 PM   #3462
Flyinace1
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Flyinace1's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: So Cal
Oddometer: 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by C/1/509 View Post

I still don't love the funky looking headlights, but otherwise it is a badass bike.
I love this bike and it's the one I want more than any other, but with the last gen's bucket headlights (like below) and a blood red paint job
__________________
Anti-Murphy's Law:
Whatever can go right will go right

2005 Yamaha FZ6 (the faster blue )
1995 Honda Magna VF750C (sold)
Flyinace1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2013, 03:48 PM   #3463
Randy
Beastly Adventurer
 
Randy's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Newnan, GA USA
Oddometer: 2,251
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
I guess it must be related to the horsepower, then. My Ducati uses two 320 mm rotors and radial calipers for the same engine size..........

Well, I'd say that it has more to do with the way the bikes are generally ridden, or at least how their designers designed them to be ridden. My Duc also has twin 320mm rotors clamped by twin four pot calipers. And, yes, they are better than the Sportsters brakes too. But, the riding style, and my expectations for the two bikes is different as well, so I don't feel the need for the Sportster's brakes to have the same level of feel and power as those on the Duc. It still stops pretty strongly though, and way better than most sportier types of bikes with cutting edge brakes of the 80's. They simply get the job done for the way this particular bike is ridden. It isn't my corner strafing tool ya know.

But then you also have to consider a couple of things outside of outright braking power. Twin discs also dissipate the heat generated by braking much more efficiently than a single disc can. Most sporty bikes are designed for a more aggressive riding style, such as on a track, where the brakes see frequent heavy use. Situations like this will cause a single brake, even if strong enough, to over heat and fade much quicker. As a result of this, pretty much all supersports have twin floating disc with nice rigid calipers.

So naturally, anyone that knows anything about bikes just KNOWS that that's what it takes to make it down to the corner coffee shop too! Yep, you guessed it... marketing has a lot to do with it. There has been a trickle down effect in the marketing departments of the major motorcycle manufacturers where they follow fashion and give the buyer what he's looking for, whether he'll ever really use it or not. And truth be known, I'd venture a guess that a very large percentage of street riders never even come CLOSE to using the modern brakes of today anywhere near their potential.

So, say that I have brakes on my Sporty that are half as effective as those on my Duc. And, lets suppose that on a given day and a given road I max out the usage of those brakes at 75% of their potential. Now, lets suppose that I ride my Duc over the same course and at the same pace, using my brakes at 35% of their true potential. Have I noticed any real difference in the effectiveness of either brake system?

As long as the braking power is sufficient to brake up close to the tire's adhesion limits, bigger, newer tech, bad ass brakes aren't going to slow you down any quicker.

Now, with that said, I'll admit that the brakes are one thing that I am disappointed in about H-D. Personally, in this day and age, I see no excuse for the brakes that come stock on the majority of their bikes. And, I'll admit that the front brake was one of the first things I upgraded on my bike. A single disc with a single two pot caliper on a 575# motorcycle? Come on guys! Drag yourself into the 21st century!, or even the later quarter of the 20th century.

My bike came stock with just such a set-up, but has been upgraded with the Nissin 4 pot that you see in the pic. It's from the XR1200, and is also the same caliper as Honda used on the CBR954RR. While the brakes may not be up to par with modern sporting machinery, I must say that they really aren't bad now. I couldn't say that about the stock set-up. They "worked" but it just took too much lever effort IMO. Maybe I was spoiled from too many years with good brakes that worked fine with one, maybe two, fingers, IDK. Now I'm back to two fingers being comfortable for full on panic braking practice. I don't feel they are lacking now either, and I have been very pleased with the upgrade.

Now back to the regularly scheduled program called, "What bike do you want today?"

And after seeing the pic of that Monster a few clicks north, I'll say that would do me very nicely today.


__________________
"some might call it a 'midlife crisis', I prefer to call it a renaissance of thought and action"... "Life is too short to do anything other than that about which you are absolutely passionate."..."Adventure is a frame of mind, set upon by action, not defined by equipment."..."It all boils down to your ability to say "SCREW IT" and really mean it"....Randy

Randy screwed with this post 05-09-2013 at 03:54 PM
Randy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2013, 04:47 PM   #3464
ttpete
Rectum Non Bustibus
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Dearborn, MI
Oddometer: 5,313
Randy, you DID know I was just pullin' your chain?

And I do own a Sporty. '66 XLCH, all original.
__________________
10 Ducati 1098 Streetfighter S - "Sleipnir"
09 Kaw Versys
67 Triumph Bonneville TT Special
"The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" _____ Margaret Thatcher
ttpete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2013, 07:33 PM   #3465
dmac57
Beastly Adventurer
 
dmac57's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Western NC
Oddometer: 2,622
I'm with Flyinace1.
__________________
"Everybody's got to believe in something.
I believe I'll have another beer."
- W. C. Fields
dmac57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 02:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014