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Old 12-03-2011, 07:36 PM   #106
roarin calhoun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick West View Post
There would be little interest from S10 and GS owners in a tough dirt comparison of these bikes. They are mostly used for pavement riding so the test was done on pavement. If these riders were looking for a bike that could do pavement and handle tough dirt riding, they would have bought the big KTM.
Mr West, please be careful on your maiden motorcycle journies. Remember,these things don't have peddles. Turn the key to the right.Start in parking lots,maybe. Best of luck.
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Old 12-05-2011, 05:58 AM   #107
pretbek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick West View Post
There would be little interest from S10 and GS owners in a tough dirt comparison of these bikes. They are mostly used for pavement riding so the test was done on pavement. If these riders were looking for a bike that could do pavement and handle tough dirt riding, they would have bought the big KTM.
That depends on your preference, right?
Pavement bias or dirt bias, but all three bikes can handle the pavement/dirt combo.

A good bike for lots of pavement but can handle dirt quite well (S10, GS) or a good bike for dirt but can handle lots of pavement quite well (KTM 950/990).
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Old 01-07-2012, 11:32 AM   #108
Roostre
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Question

How is it for two-up? (With the side cases specifically)

Just took the wife over to introduce her to the Tenere...

She likes it, but wants a backrest for longer trips.

So what says the collective? Or are you all hard core dirt riding, no girl having, interweb keyboard mafiosos that couldn't care less about passenger accomodations?
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Old 01-07-2012, 12:08 PM   #109
roarin calhoun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roostre View Post
How is it for two-up? (With the side cases specifically)

Just took the wife over to introduce her to the Tenere...

She likes it, but wants a backrest for longer trips.

So what says the collective? Or are you all hard core dirt riding, no girl having, interweb keyboard mafiosos that couldn't care less about passenger accomodations?
Well, I "couldn't care less about passenger accomadations",but my wife does. She LOVES the Tenere.Lots better than our previous BMW GS12. Lots better. Me too. She says the non-slip seat is great & the bike just feels more stable,no matter the terrain.Is easier to get on & off of too.We have soft bags so can't comment on passengers & hard bags. My old "bag"(wife) loves it tho. She says it's her favorite bike & we've had a bunch over the years. And we ride forest & desert dirt roads mostly, some get pretty nasty. Lottsa fun.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:43 PM   #110
AlsoRan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roostre View Post
How is it for two-up? (With the side cases specifically)

Just took the wife over to introduce her to the Tenere...

She likes it, but wants a backrest for longer trips.

So what says the collective? Or are you all hard core dirt riding, no girl having, interweb keyboard mafiosos that couldn't care less about passenger accomodations?
Works great for two-up. I have a top case with backrest combined and the wife likes it. We do lot's of two-up riding and she says it's comfortable on long rides. I came from a hard core dirt background but don't use the Tenere that way. It is stable on the street but I know it works good off road so it does make a difference where I can plan to go with it - lot's of options! Awesome bike for sure.

Good luck in your search.
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Old 01-07-2012, 06:51 PM   #111
EmmEff
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My wife and I saw the S10 for the first time today at the motorcycle show in Toronto. We have been looking at a 12GS to replace my totalled 8GS. We were pretty much set on buying the BMW, but now after seeing the S10, I'm not so sure anymore.

We like this bike a lot! Everything "feels" good. It'll be some months before I'll actually be able to test ride one (if any of the local dealers will even participate), but now I'm eager to try this thing!

I'll be following along in this thread...
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Old 01-07-2012, 07:09 PM   #112
GrahamD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmmEff View Post
My wife and I saw the S10 for the first time today at the motorcycle show in Toronto. We have been looking at a 12GS to replace my totalled 8GS. We were pretty much set on buying the BMW, but now after seeing the S10, I'm not so sure anymore.

We like this bike a lot! Everything "feels" good. It'll be some months before I'll actually be able to test ride one (if any of the local dealers will even participate), but now I'm eager to try this thing!

I'll be following along in this thread...
Hi there, Try this first, Pretty well sums it up at the end,

Agrees with the South African, Australian, Italian reviews. Doesn't agree with the Poms, They are afraid of dirt.

So pick your meat/poison...



The only additional thing I would like to see in this Vid is a pillion on board while Ryan does his stuff

Cheers
Graham
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Old 01-07-2012, 07:10 PM   #113
20valves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eemsreno View Post
Pluric you still have street tires on that dirt bike, wait till you get some K60s or equivalent on there, it really transforms it into a go anywhere bike. as if your not going everywhere already.
Steve
I took mine out today with some new Shenko 705's and did the ATV trails. Not true single track but lots of 180 switchbacks and whooped out silty stuff and the big whale ate it up. Railed around the bermed up corners. As you long you respect its size, it'll go nearly anywhere. A completely different experience from my first dirt foray on the stock Tourances where I also ran TC1. Today, with traction control off and T mode, thing felt like it would grind through anything with these new tires. A lot of it is that I know the bike a lot better now too. And they seem fine on the street, probably not the equal of the Tourance EXP's on pavement though.
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Old 01-07-2012, 07:11 PM   #114
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Thanks! I (we, actually) have watched that one and were impressed with the praise of the S10. No surprises, really, I guess. I've yet to read anything terribly negative about it.
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Old 02-01-2012, 04:10 AM   #115
jribeiro
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S10 x GSA Direct Comparison

As an owner of both bikes ( 2009 GSA with 28000 km and a 2011 S10 with 3000 km ) and after following this thread for some time I decided to make a practical comparison between them.
I have more than 230.000 miles riding experience, most of it on GS/GSA bikes, mostly on long distance journeys through South America, Asia and Africa.
As a basic point I do not consider both bikes capable of any off road real travel. I usually use the off tarmac term when riding in gravel, dirt and sand roads.2222

The test

With my son I took both bikes from Sao Paulo, Brasil ( where we live ) to San Pedro de Atacama in Chile and back.In order to test the bikes in all conditions we switched bikes every 200 miles.

This is a 7000 KM journey, 80 % on tarmac and the rest on gravel, dirt and light sand roads. We faced temperatures between 40 and -2 degrees Celsius (104 28 F ) and altitudes from sea level up to 5000 meters ( 17000 feet ) when crossing one of the Andes passes.

Both bikes had the same tires ( Tourance for tarmac and Karoo T for off tarmac ), new brake pads, oil and filters. The GS has all the options ( ABS, ESA, ESC etc ) and the S10 the standard package that includes ABS, traction control and engine mode.

Both bikes has 38 liter Zega Pro panniers and assorted protection gear from Touratech. The S10 carried also a 3 gallon Rotopak fuel tank that I never used. Each bike was loaded with around 36 kilos of luggage.

Some numbers

Total mileage: 6998 km/4375 miles

GSA Fuel Consumption: 388 liters ( 18 km/liter- 42 mpg )
S10 Consumption: 368 liters ( 19,5 km/ liter -44 mpg )
( the overall mileage is low due to very steep and twisty roads to cross the Andes pass and the low speed/third gear all day ride through sandy roads in the Atacama desert. Both bikes are capable of 47/50 mpg runs on tarmac)

GSA Oil Consumption : 3 liters
S10 Oil Consumption: 0,5 liters

S10 Water Consumption: none

Overall Impressions

Steering

Although both bikes has basically the same weight, the S10 feels lighter on low speed maneuvers and heavier on medium to high speed turns. Although heavier, the steering seems to be more precise than the GSA, specially on bumpy tarmac roads.

Braking

The S10 brakes are in another league. I always believed that ABS was only usefull in the tarmac and it really annoyed me that the S10 had no “regular” way to switch off the ABS. During this trip I never switched off the ABS and its intervention is so seamless that you hardly notice it working. If there is an aspect where the S10 shines over the GSA is in the braking- traction control aspect. You must adapt your riding to this braking system, in order to use the interlinked braking system to its best. It took me two days dirt riding to really get used to it. The GSA brakes are also very good but IMHO Yamaha system is much better.

Traction Control

Also here the Yamaha system is better. After a few days, used it almost the time on mode 2 except on very twisty tarmac sections , full of diesel spills from the trucks. Different from the GSA system most of the time you only know the system is working because of the light. You feel nothing on the engine noise or riding attitude. I never switched it off. Both ABS and traction control worked perfectly on the Karoo tire in both bikes.

Driving Mode

The S10 has the driving mode switch. I leave it in the S mode. You can achieve the same effect with wrist control.

Ergonomics

Aside the original seat, the GSA offers a better ergonomic position for the rider. Wind protection, controls positioning are better than the S10’s. The original seat of the |Yamaha is better that the GSA. All the electronic adjustment of the GSA ca\n be made from the left handlebar, while the S10 has the engine mode on the right handlebar and the rest directly on the front panel. I find the GSA more comfortable on rides above 600 km / day.

Front Suspension

On the tarmac I prefer the GSA system specially because of the lack of diving under braking. Off tarmac the S10 is more compliant to the road and specially better on sandy roads.

The S10 suspension is more adjustable ( although not at the flick of button ) but I usually leave it at the same setting all the time, ie preload at 3 and compression and rebound at 4 clicks

Rear Suspension

My impression is that both are at the same level ( considering the standard shocks ) Again the S10 suspension is more adjustable ( although not at the flick of button ) but I usually leave it at the same setting all the time, ie preload at 3 and rebound at 6 clicks
/





Rear drive

Both work well, but on a previous GS I had a drive failure at 15.000 miles. I think that the double swingarm in the S10 is more reliable on the long run. To soon to say anything.

Engine

From the technical point of view the S10 engine is much more advanced than the boxer. The side radiator works well.My trusted mechanic says that the S10 engine is awfully limited, meaning that it could deliver easily 130-140 hp only dealing with the ecu and fuel injectors, specially if running on ethanol. It has an annoying “gap” around 3500 rpm, but it seems something related to the injection map and could easily be fixed with Power Commander.

It takes bad gasoline ( low octane ) with no problems. This bad batch we got was exactly when crossing the high altitude pass ( 17.000 feet Paso de Jama ) and although you could feel the power loss there was no knocking at all. The GSA boxer engine complained a lot ( pinging) and was really running very hot.It looks like the ECU+ knocking sensor could not deal with high altitude and bad gas at the same time.

By the other way the boxer engine is the “ character “ of the GSA. It is reliable and it is for ever linked to the GS brand. I just love this engine, so my analysis is biased here.

Rear Frame

To soon to say anything about the S10 rear frame sturdiness. The GSA with heavy panniers usually cracks when riding off tarmac..

Price

At least here in Brazil, the GSA costs US$ 50.000,00 and the S10 costs US$ 34.000,00

Service

Number of BMW service centers between Sao Paulo and San Pedro de Atacama= 0

Number of Yamaha service centers between Sao Paulo and San Pedro de Atacama= 30+

Parts Cost

GSA rear shock in Brazil= US$ 2.857,00 ESA
S10 rear shock in Brazil= US$ 975,00


Labor Cost

BMW labor cost per hour: US$ 100,00
Yamaha labor cost per hour: US$ 50,00

All things considered I consider the S10 a better bike to long distance travel. Character by character the GSA is unbeatable. I will keep both, but from now on will travel with the S10.
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Old 02-01-2012, 01:28 PM   #116
L.B.S.
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Joined: Feb 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jribeiro View Post
As an owner of both bikes ( 2009 GSA with 28000 km and a 2011 S10 with 3000 km ) and after following this thread for some time I decided to make a practical comparison between them.
I have more than 230.000 miles riding experience, most of it on GS/GSA bikes, mostly on long distance journeys through South America, Asia and Africa.
As a basic point I do not consider both bikes capable of any off road real travel. I usually use the off tarmac term when riding in gravel, dirt and sand roads.2222

The test

With my son I took both bikes from Sao Paulo, Brasil ( where we live ) to San Pedro de Atacama in Chile and back.In order to test the bikes in all conditions we switched bikes every 200 miles.

This is a 7000 KM journey, 80 % on tarmac and the rest on gravel, dirt and light sand roads. We faced temperatures between 40 and -2 degrees Celsius (104 28 F ) and altitudes from sea level up to 5000 meters ( 17000 feet ) when crossing one of the Andes passes.

Both bikes had the same tires ( Tourance for tarmac and Karoo T for off tarmac ), new brake pads, oil and filters. The GS has all the options ( ABS, ESA, ESC etc ) and the S10 the standard package that includes ABS, traction control and engine mode.

Both bikes has 38 liter Zega Pro panniers and assorted protection gear from Touratech. The S10 carried also a 3 gallon Rotopak fuel tank that I never used. Each bike was loaded with around 36 kilos of luggage.

Some numbers

Total mileage: 6998 km/4375 miles

GSA Fuel Consumption: 388 liters ( 18 km/liter- 42 mpg )
S10 Consumption: 368 liters ( 19,5 km/ liter -44 mpg )
( the overall mileage is low due to very steep and twisty roads to cross the Andes pass and the low speed/third gear all day ride through sandy roads in the Atacama desert. Both bikes are capable of 47/50 mpg runs on tarmac)

GSA Oil Consumption : 3 liters
S10 Oil Consumption: 0,5 liters

S10 Water Consumption: none

Overall Impressions

Steering

Although both bikes has basically the same weight, the S10 feels lighter on low speed maneuvers and heavier on medium to high speed turns. Although heavier, the steering seems to be more precise than the GSA, specially on bumpy tarmac roads.

Braking

The S10 brakes are in another league. I always believed that ABS was only usefull in the tarmac and it really annoyed me that the S10 had no “regular” way to switch off the ABS. During this trip I never switched off the ABS and its intervention is so seamless that you hardly notice it working. If there is an aspect where the S10 shines over the GSA is in the braking- traction control aspect. You must adapt your riding to this braking system, in order to use the interlinked braking system to its best. It took me two days dirt riding to really get used to it. The GSA brakes are also very good but IMHO Yamaha system is much better.

Traction Control

Also here the Yamaha system is better. After a few days, used it almost the time on mode 2 except on very twisty tarmac sections , full of diesel spills from the trucks. Different from the GSA system most of the time you only know the system is working because of the light. You feel nothing on the engine noise or riding attitude. I never switched it off. Both ABS and traction control worked perfectly on the Karoo tire in both bikes.

Driving Mode

The S10 has the driving mode switch. I leave it in the S mode. You can achieve the same effect with wrist control.

Ergonomics

Aside the original seat, the GSA offers a better ergonomic position for the rider. Wind protection, controls positioning are better than the S10’s. The original seat of the |Yamaha is better that the GSA. All the electronic adjustment of the GSA ca\n be made from the left handlebar, while the S10 has the engine mode on the right handlebar and the rest directly on the front panel. I find the GSA more comfortable on rides above 600 km / day.

Front Suspension

On the tarmac I prefer the GSA system specially because of the lack of diving under braking. Off tarmac the S10 is more compliant to the road and specially better on sandy roads.

The S10 suspension is more adjustable ( although not at the flick of button ) but I usually leave it at the same setting all the time, ie preload at 3 and compression and rebound at 4 clicks

Rear Suspension

My impression is that both are at the same level ( considering the standard shocks ) Again the S10 suspension is more adjustable ( although not at the flick of button ) but I usually leave it at the same setting all the time, ie preload at 3 and rebound at 6 clicks
/





Rear drive

Both work well, but on a previous GS I had a drive failure at 15.000 miles. I think that the double swingarm in the S10 is more reliable on the long run. To soon to say anything.

Engine

From the technical point of view the S10 engine is much more advanced than the boxer. The side radiator works well.My trusted mechanic says that the S10 engine is awfully limited, meaning that it could deliver easily 130-140 hp only dealing with the ecu and fuel injectors, specially if running on ethanol. It has an annoying “gap” around 3500 rpm, but it seems something related to the injection map and could easily be fixed with Power Commander.

It takes bad gasoline ( low octane ) with no problems. This bad batch we got was exactly when crossing the high altitude pass ( 17.000 feet Paso de Jama ) and although you could feel the power loss there was no knocking at all. The GSA boxer engine complained a lot ( pinging) and was really running very hot.It looks like the ECU+ knocking sensor could not deal with high altitude and bad gas at the same time.

By the other way the boxer engine is the “ character “ of the GSA. It is reliable and it is for ever linked to the GS brand. I just love this engine, so my analysis is biased here.

Rear Frame

To soon to say anything about the S10 rear frame sturdiness. The GSA with heavy panniers usually cracks when riding off tarmac..

Price

At least here in Brazil, the GSA costs US$ 50.000,00 and the S10 costs US$ 34.000,00

Service

Number of BMW service centers between Sao Paulo and San Pedro de Atacama= 0

Number of Yamaha service centers between Sao Paulo and San Pedro de Atacama= 30+

Parts Cost

GSA rear shock in Brazil= US$ 2.857,00 ESA
S10 rear shock in Brazil= US$ 975,00


Labor Cost

BMW labor cost per hour: US$ 100,00
Yamaha labor cost per hour: US$ 50,00

All things considered I consider the S10 a better bike to long distance travel. Character by character the GSA is unbeatable. I will keep both, but from now on will travel with the S10.

Wow! A lot of cool and rather eye opening info in your post, Thanks for the interesting details and user comparisons!
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Old 02-01-2012, 01:34 PM   #117
GrahamD
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Thanks for that jribeiro

Good info.

Cheers
Graham
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"I just may as well admit that my other bikes are toast. I don't ride them. Plain and simple. I didn't want this. It wasn't the plan." - snakebitten
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Old 02-01-2012, 01:45 PM   #118
William42
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jribiero,

Thanks for the comparison. Very well done.
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Old 02-01-2012, 01:57 PM   #119
pluric
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Location: Salt Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roostre View Post
How is it for two-up? (With the side cases specifically)

Just took the wife over to introduce her to the Tenere...

She likes it, but wants a backrest for longer trips.

So what says the collective? Or are you all hard core dirt riding, no girl having, interweb keyboard mafiosos that couldn't care less about passenger accomodations?
For longer trips with a wife you will need the storage anyway, so a top trunk with
a pad should be all you need. My wife likes the pillion seating better than the FJR
and equal to the Strom. She did mention feeling "High up".

Roostre, just PM me when you would like to take my S10 for a demo. I'll leave the bags and
a trunk so you two can decide if you like it. It will be quite different than your Ully.

I'm in town this weekend then leave for Baja for a couple weeks.

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Old 02-01-2012, 02:46 PM   #120
ptc05ADV
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Talking Two words

Access - to maintenance and service departments, the S10 wins hands down. THere are, simply, more places that can support your S10 than the BMW.

Cost - whether it is cost per mile/km or initial cost or other operating costs the S10 will, IMHO, be more cost effective (cheaper) than the BMW.

There... but let the buyers decide for themselves!!
Peter C
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