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Old 02-13-2012, 09:16 AM   #286
Ritalin Boy
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I would suggest either a used sunfish or laser rig mounted center on the forward cross beam.

The sunfish rig would probably be better as you could lower the sail and un-step the mast much easier than a Laser rig.
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Old 02-13-2012, 10:31 AM   #287
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There's plenty of alternative ways to go about doing this, and if you see the videos of the walk along the beach at the start you'll see a large assortment of craft of all types. If I built all the suggestions from others so far I'd have a hundred different boats!

but, what I want is to make this design work, not change it to something else. I've carefully worked all my design requirements together to fit into one 16' package, that when folded is only 3' wide and about 3' tall and is towable by bicycle as seen in the video. I can sleep, cook, eat, crap, plan and sail almost non stop, and when it's time to get a few winks I won't have to find camp, break camp or any of those time wasting activities. All gear is safe and stowed in the hulls. I've studied all the reasons for a DNF and done plenty of canoe and kayak trips to iron out what I need and how to do it so ......

let's focus on trying to make this design work!

Cables are one way to sturdy up the folding system, I'm planning on pinned the beams together some how. On the hull one side is bolted to pivot then I'll pin the other. Same thing on the center platform.

I plan on using those prindle 16 hulls that you see in the bike portage video as my development boat and rough out my ideas on that and make sure they work. It could just be 2x4 and plywood technology that gives me a 1:1 proof of concept working model that will actually sail, but be very overweight because of the construction materials but will lighten up lots with better gear and materials.
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Old 02-13-2012, 12:39 PM   #288
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I think your superstructure design is fine. I'm just concerned by the twin mast system. If it were practical, you'd think you'd see it more often in the wild. I'd extend your center platform a foot or two more in front, just enough that when folded it meets the bows... and mount the mast step there. A big lug sail, not too tall but larger front and back, preserves sail area but lets you reef or drop sail quickly. I'll see if I can get you a picture tonight of what I'm thinking about.

After I thought about it, cables might not work for bracing - as every dimension collapses as you fold the boat. A couple rigid stays, nothing more than conduit with a foot plate on either end, to brace apart the pontoons fore and aft, quickly removable with a clevis pin or something, and stowable in under a couple minutes, should work fine to keep it locked open.
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Old 02-13-2012, 01:28 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by Smithy View Post
I think your superstructure design is fine. I'm just concerned by the twin mast system. If it were practical, you'd think you'd see it more often in the wild. I'd extend your center platform a foot or two more in front, just enough that when folded it meets the bows... and mount the mast step there. A big lug sail, not too tall but larger front and back, preserves sail area but lets you reef or drop sail quickly. I'll see if I can get you a picture tonight of what I'm thinking about.

After I thought about it, cables might not work for bracing - as every dimension collapses as you fold the boat. A couple rigid stays, nothing more than conduit with a foot plate on either end, to brace apart the pontoons fore and aft, quickly removable with a clevis pin or something, and stowable in under a couple minutes, should work fine to keep it locked open.
this is more like it!

There are several reasons for the unstayed biplane rig, to keep the weight off the center platform for folding, keep the boat more stable keeping the forces lower, and I need the center of the platform and tramp to launch and fly a windsurfer kite. This is anything but a conventional craft, nothing here is anything new, just not mainstream and it's all been done before, just not all in one boat. This isn't your father's sailboat!

























and then there's the folding biplane rigged cat:
http://www.cat2fold.com/


the hobiecat trifoiler:


and of course Team Phillips!


and that's just some of them .......
and then there's the kite boats!
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Old 02-13-2012, 01:46 PM   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritalin Boy View Post
I would suggest either a used sunfish or laser rig mounted center on the forward cross beam.

The sunfish rig would probably be better as you could lower the sail and un-step the mast much easier than a Laser rig.
Initially I'm gonna try out a Hobie Tandem Island sail. it's roller furling so that should make it easier to handle. I'm also gonna experiment with extending the beam from the normal-ish 8' out to 10'. My test boat, the prindle 16 has a hull height of 2' which I like for mounting the unstayed masts to. Boats like the hobie 16 don't have enough hull to mount my masts strong enough. I'm looking into the F16 class but like the hobie are pretty low volume.
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Old 02-13-2012, 02:58 PM   #291
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Well I'll be dipped and fried, I've never seen that rig before. And apparently didn't use the right search terms to find it, either.


Good luck, man!
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:32 AM   #292
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Hey all, I hope this is the right thread for this question but if not can someone suggest a better one?

We just bought a 27 foot motorsailor (a 1979 LM built in Denmark). We live on Gotland, an island in the middle of the Baltic.

The boat is gently used and went for about 8 years of not being used at all. Also, until last year it was only used on a freshwater lake. The first owner never installed sails and only used it as a motorboat. The guy we bought it from (2nd owner) has had it for 6 years and moved it here last year from the mainland when he moved here. He just installed the mast and sails last year and they've been used about 2 times. He's states that the diesel (36 HP volvo penta) is in good condition although it is not clear that it's ever been overhauled.

We were looking around for an LM 27 and found this one in our local little harbor. Because it has been used on a lake, it has never been equipped with any electronic navigation equipment (GPS, depth finder, etc) that we see other boats like this equipped with. I have sailed a lot but only small day sailors (my last boat was a 15ft flying tern). We will mostly be using it around our island but will have some longer trips sailing around the Baltic, eg., to stockholm, Aland, Estonia, Latvia, etc. So, my question is what should I bee looking for in terms of outfitting the boat with necessary navigation equipment? ALso, I'm hoping to fin the equipment used unless anyone has good reasons not to. Thanks in advance!
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:03 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by YYguy View Post
Hey all, I hope this is the right thread for this question but if not can someone suggest a better one?

We just bought a 27 foot motorsailor (a 1979 LM built in Denmark). We live on Gotland, an island in the middle of the Baltic.

The boat is gently used and went for about 8 years of not being used at all. Also, until last year it was only used on a freshwater lake. The first owner never installed sails and only used it as a motorboat. The guy we bought it from (2nd owner) has had it for 6 years and moved it here last year from the mainland when he moved here. He just installed the mast and sails last year and they've been used about 2 times. He's states that the diesel (36 HP volvo penta) is in good condition although it is not clear that it's ever been overhauled.

We were looking around for an LM 27 and found this one in our local little harbor. Because it has been used on a lake, it has never been equipped with any electronic navigation equipment (GPS, depth finder, etc) that we see other boats like this equipped with. I have sailed a lot but only small day sailors (my last boat was a 15ft flying tern). We will mostly be using it around our island but will have some longer trips sailing around the Baltic, eg., to stockholm, Aland, Estonia, Latvia, etc. So, my question is what should I bee looking for in terms of outfitting the boat with necessary navigation equipment? ALso, I'm hoping to fin the equipment used unless anyone has good reasons not to. Thanks in advance!
It has been 10 years since I have sailed on the open ocean so everything you hear is maybe ten years old. In the USA

1. paper charts of sailing waters
2. 7x50 binocular
3. VHS
4. Cell phone
5. Water proof GPS
6. one more anchor then you think you will need.
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:24 AM   #294
YYguy
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Originally Posted by ysr612 View Post
It has been 10 years since I have sailed on the open ocean so everything you hear is maybe ten years old. In the USA

1. paper charts of sailing waters
2. 7x50 binocular
3. VHS
4. Cell phone
5. Water proof GPS
6. one more anchor then you think you will need.
Thanks. This is in line with what I was thinking. I am wanting to be sure I'm not missing something due to inexperience with this kind of sailing.

I've never used a marine GPS. WIll it include depth information at tides, reefs, etc or does it function like an on-land gps with just routing and coordinates?
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:42 AM   #295
Ritalin Boy
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Fantasy Camp

So... Where to begin.

There's this friend of mine here in Newport who has done very well in business.

He has a Shelds (30' one design) we race in Newport and over the last few years he's been chartering Norther Light, a vintage 12 meter.

Two years ago he chartered a Swan 56 for the Heineken Regatta in St. Martin; last year did it again but it for various reasons he hated the captain so this year he decided to try something a little different. Our ride for 2012 was the mighty Nefertiti.

My buddy Sean couldn't make it so I was asked to serve as project manager / crew boss and relief driver. We have a somewhat regular crew and the boat came with six guys.

Here's a few shots of our practice days.

It's hard to describe the sheer size, speed and the time it takes to do things. Here's a shot from the cockpit, there's about 20' of boat *behind* the camera.



When we were just sailing around we were going anywhere from 10-13 kts. This meant that with all the other boats around we had to keep two lookouts all the time and we'd be discussing what to do about "the little shitter over there" with the aforementioned "little shitter" being 60' long and a mile away

Here we are taking a little break. The jumbo displays on the mast indicate we're going 13kts in 26kts of wind.


A shot of the mainsail with a reef in. We practiced this but never reefed the main, even in the last race when we had 30kts of wind. Something about being a rental had us pressing hard for the last race.


For a huge boat it was amazingly well balanced. If you've ever driven a sailboat you've felt "helm", which is the feed-back or force felt from the rudder. When we had it set up right I could drive sitting down, when we had it wrong it was quite a struggle, so much that my buddy couldn't drive much so I did most of it.

Doing this:


Made me feel like this:


We practiced Wednesday - Thursday and raced Friday, Saturday and Sunday. It was more competitive than I expected for such big boats, we had two Swan 100's, a Whitbread 70 and a few other large boats in our class. Our big competition was Virago, a Swan 100 also chartered by a group from Newport. Talk about danger, how about two superyachts rented to a bunch of professional or semi-pro sailors from the same town racing against each other for a pickle dish and bragging rights. the starts were like a billion dollar furball, as it turned out we won two of the three starts and would have gone three for three but the other 100 made a mess of it and rather then hit them I let them in at the committee boat. I almost gave our captain a heart attack in the process.

Virago won our class for the week and we came out second which we're very pleased with. Here's a great shot of the two of us out front. While we were second on handicap we were first boat for boat in two of the three races.

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Old 03-12-2012, 11:42 AM   #296
ysr612
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Originally Posted by YYguy View Post
Thanks. This is in line with what I was thinking. I am wanting to be sure I'm not missing something due to inexperience with this kind of sailing.

I've never used a marine GPS. WIll it include depth information at tides, reefs, etc or does it function like an on-land gps with just routing and coordinates?
you can get the GPS's either way. The ones for sailing you can put charts into these do not replace paper in my mind. there are of course well published minimum safety equipment standards and you will follow them. Note the expiration dates on flares and such. Keep charts up to date.

a recommendation that I would add. If there is a sailboat club near you try and go as crew or passenger on some racer boats. This will help teach you where boats start to come apart in bad weather.

edit see above post I would suggest boats around 25-35 feet for starting to learn about keelboat racing not something mega like above.
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Old 03-12-2012, 01:26 PM   #297
YYguy
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you can get the GPS's either way. The ones for sailing you can put charts into these do not replace paper in my mind. there are of course well published minimum safety equipment standards and you will follow them. Note the expiration dates on flares and such. Keep charts up to date.

a recommendation that I would add. If there is a sailboat club near you try and go as crew or passenger on some racer boats. This will help teach you where boats start to come apart in bad weather.

edit see above post I would suggest boats around 25-35 feet for starting to learn about keelboat racing not something mega like above.
this is a great suggestion, thanks.
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Old 03-12-2012, 06:48 PM   #298
Smithy
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Some days, I really love my little sailboat.

Days like today, where $200 bought me - literally - a handful of parts... not so much. Main part of that was a fiddle block with becket and cam cleat, so I can reroute my mainsheet from the dumbass boom-end fitting the Venture 22 runs now, to a mid-boom fitting with the base up by the companionway, and out of my way in the cockpit or around the tiller/engine.
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Old 03-12-2012, 07:47 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by Ritalin Boy View Post
So... Where to begin.

There's this friend of mine here in Newport who has done very well in business.
Beeeeeautiful! wow!
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Old 03-13-2012, 04:51 AM   #300
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For a huge boat it was amazingly well balanced. If you've ever driven a sailboat you've felt "helm", which is the feed-back or force felt from the rudder. When we had it set up right I could drive sitting down, when we had it wrong it was quite a struggle, so much that my buddy couldn't drive much so I did most of it.
Lucky b'stard. Those big sail boats are beautiful.

They use a balanced rudder?
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