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Old 06-13-2010, 07:33 AM   #16
gore-tx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spotch
That's like responding to a "any good restaurants in town?" by saying "just walk through a field until you find dog poop and eat that... you cean eat anything"
??? What does that have to do with anything? That's not even a good analogy .
Quote:
Originally Posted by spotch
Yes you can hypothetically tour on anything...
Yes you can. It's just about making your vehicle suit you and your needs better, hence the modifications I suggested she makes.
The Silverwing may have more power but it is so overweight (it's a real porker) I don't think it would catch a Tmax. You mentioned brakes and I do have a couple of things to say about that:
1. I will argue that ABS really only makes a difference in the wet. And given the power of the maxi scooters, I don't think it makes a huge difference.
2. The brakes on the Tmax come from the R1. I don't think the Silverwing's brakes come from the CBR. And once again, given the weight difference, I am putting my money on the Tmax for out breaking a Silverwing.
If his wife has motorcycle experience, then the Tmax would be a great scooter because its handling is closest to a motorcycle's. It rides like a motorcycle - which in my opinion would help getting used to a scooter.
One last thing: The Silverwing is an old design and needs a major update. The Tmax was updated in 2007 and is more modern in every way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spotch
I'm not trying to be a dick
But you're so good at it!
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Old 06-13-2010, 09:14 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gore-tx
??? What does that have to do with anything? That's not even a good analogy .
It's a perfect analogy. Saying "you can tour on anything" is bullshit when the question is "which one is better at touring". Technically yes, you can tour on anything. But that doesn't mean that one isn't better than the other at touring. You saying 'you can tour on anything' is like me saying the silverwing and tmax essentially handle the same because you can 'drive like a motorcycle on anything... you can buy a bunch of suspension mods for the silverwing and it will be just as good as the tmax!', even though we both know that's not necessarily true. You just chose to stress the importance of the tmax's strenghts, while ignoring its relative weaknesses. The question wasn't "hey which one of these can I buy with the purpose of touring in mind, and then spend a lot of time and money modifying to try to have it match the original purpose as good as the one that I turned down?"

Quote:
Yes you can. It's just about making your vehicle suit you and your needs better, hence the modifications I suggested she makes.
You can do tons of stuff to make a silverwing tour better too, and at the end of the day, with mods done to both, the silverwing is better.


Quote:
The Silverwing may have more power but it is so overweight (it's a real porker) I don't think it would catch a Tmax.
Ok, this proves that you just have no idea what you're talking about.
1. If you search hard enough, you'll find reviews that say that the silverwing is faster.
2. The Silverwing weighs 50 pounds more than the Tmax. It's got 10.2% more weight than the tmax and 16.6% more displacement.

Also, extra weight = more stability on the highway. So you just put another nail in your argument's coffin that evereything is equally good at touring. (not to mention the lack of storage space, and the far less-comfortable seat which has less room for improvement.... the way the seat's designed even aftermarket seats have relatively little cushioning compared to other touring scoots).

Quote:
You mentioned brakes and I do have a couple of things to say about that:
1. I will argue that ABS really only makes a difference in the wet.
The experts proved you wrong.
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ro..._us/index.html

Cliffs notes: expert race drivers (which none of us are, unless you've got years and years of professionally racing your tmax on a sanctioned racing circuit?) may be able to top ABS in perfect conditions. In ANY OTHER CONDITIONS (including dust/gravel on the roads, cold roads with low traction, less-than perfect tires, moist conditions) or with drivers who don't happen to race motorcycles for a living, ABS is a huge benefit.


Quote:
And given the power of the maxi scooters, I don't think it makes a huge difference.
Again, RIDICULOUS.
1. The tmax and silverwing can hit triple digit speeds. They're built to cruise at 60-80mph all day long. If you've had MSF training you've learned that you can lock a tire up at 20mph, and that's enough to throw you to the ground with injuries.

Quote:
If his wife has motorcycle experience, then the Tmax would be a great scooter because its handling is closest to a motorcycle's.
His wife has motorcycle experience, and she's trying to get away from the motorcycle experience to find something better suited for touring. And since when is going from an MC to a scooter so hard that you need to ease yourself into the transition lol. She's not moving from a motorcycle into an F-16... it's a twist-n-go scooter. A chimpanzee could make that transition. And frankly, as much as the tmax's handling is similar to a motorcycle, it's not *THAT* different from a silverwing, aside from being slightly more sport-tuned.

And I guess the extra 1.8 inches of seat height on the tmax will somehow make that transition so much easier too, right? lol.


Quote:
One last thing: The Silverwing is an old design and needs a major update.
It's an old design that's worked like a charm since it was introduced. It's exceedingly suitable to the task of long-distance touring. Any review you read of it or the burgman 650 say that they're the best long distance touring scoot you can buy (much like the reviews say that the tmax is best at handling like a motorcycle).

Quote:
But you're so good at it!
I know... it's hard not to be a dick when you've got to correct someone *so many times*.


You're just dead fucking wrong in so many ways, but you're so committed to the idea that the tmax is the best at EVERYTHING (and anything it's not the best at just isn't important!) because you personally like it. Hell I like my reflex a lot, maybe I should just say "Get a reflex, and modify the shit out of it, because it's the best!!!"

Lame dude. Try to learn how to disconnect your personal attachment to something from your ability to make an unbiased judgment. Your opinions will be a lot more valuable.


That's pretty much all I have to say about this. I'm sure you'll read this whole post and respond with a page worth of "But it's the most like a motorcycle so it *must* be the best-touring one!" or some nonsense. You're free to your opinion, even if it is poorly informed.
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spotch screwed with this post 06-13-2010 at 09:35 AM
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Old 06-13-2010, 11:22 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spotch
It's a perfect analogy.
It's not. Your little poop joke had nothing to do in there. You put that in because you had nothing valid to say so you made up fluff.
I think the original question left it open to a lot of commentaries. Again since you can't argue my point, you have to go elsewhere with this discussion (e.g. time and money).
Quote:
Originally Posted by spotch
1. If you search hard enough, you'll find reviews that say that the silverwing is faster.
2. The Silverwing weighs 50 pounds more than the Tmax. It's got 10.2% more weight than the tmax and 16.6% more displacement.
I'm glad you read reviews. That's really valuable in the real world. Displacement doesn't equal power. Lots of cruisers have large engine and little power output. If you look up figures again, you will read that in terms of actual power, the Silverwing isn't that much more powerful than the Tmax, at least not in a way that is significant.
Now the weight difference is significant, especially for a woman. As far as adding stability, yes, weight will do that on some level. But are you going to argue that a lightweight like the CBR (600 or 1000) is not stable? Weight isn't everything when it comes to stability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spotch
Cliffs notes: expert race drivers (which none of us are, unless you've got years and years of professionally racing your tmax on a sanctioned racing circuit?) may be able to top ABS in perfect conditions. In ANY OTHER CONDITIONS (including dust/gravel on the roads, cold roads with low traction, less-than perfect tires, moist conditions) or with drivers who don't happen to race motorcycles for a living, ABS is a huge benefit.
I never said I could top the ABS system. I will still argue that ABS only really makes a difference in the wet. Again, you base yourself a lot on what you've read.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spotch
If you've had MSF training you've learned that you can lock a tire up at 20mph, and that's enough to throw you to the ground with injuries.
I remember you now: you're that guy that fell off during the MSF course. That was fucking funny! You okay man?
Quote:
Originally Posted by spotch
And I guess the extra 1.8 inches of seat height on the tmax will somehow make that transition so much easier too, right? lol.
She's 5'10".
Quote:
Originally Posted by spotch
You're just dead fucking wrong in so many ways, but you're so committed to the idea that the tmax is the best at EVERYTHING (and anything it's not the best at just isn't important!) because you personally like it. Hell I like my reflex a lot, maybe I should just say "Get a reflex, and modify the shit out of it, because it's the best!!!"
I really like my Tmax and compared to the Silverwing I rode 6 years ago, it's much better. Shit! Wait! You got a Reflex? And the ABS version? Now that's pretty safe here. I'm thinking about getting ABS for my Nighthawk 250. Sure would make me feel better about it since it's a 250cc and it's got drum brakes. Then what the fuck are you doing here talking about those 2 bikes? Oh, right. You read about them. Good for you, good for you.
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Old 06-13-2010, 11:43 AM   #19
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Old 06-15-2010, 07:41 AM   #20
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Old 06-15-2010, 09:11 AM   #21
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Well this went nuts

Given the choice, I assume T-max is more comfortable then my
Kawasaki and I'd go that way. I don't think it's power deficit should
be a concern, it's fast enough.

However, having read all the 'wants' she has, I think the Silverwing
(or a Burgman) might be a better choice.
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Old 06-15-2010, 04:06 PM   #22
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What about ease of maitenance and reliability ?
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Old 06-16-2010, 04:43 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zebra03
What about ease of maitenance and reliability ?
Probably screwed with either of them re: maintenance , but also all fine re: reliability.
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Old 06-16-2010, 06:08 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soreass
Both are highly discounted right now and the SW with ABS is actually $200 less than the TMAX.
So soreass, what did you decide after all the sage advice?????
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Old 06-17-2010, 06:56 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnone
So soreass, what did you decide after all the sage advice?????
I'm expecting: "I got this great Vespa GTS and...!"
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Old 06-18-2010, 03:57 PM   #26
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Quote:
I really like my Tmax and compared to the Silverwing I rode 6 years ago, it's much better. Shit! Wait! You got a Reflex? And the ABS version? Now that's pretty safe here. I'm thinking about getting ABS for my Nighthawk 250. Sure would make me feel better about it since it's a 250cc and it's got drum brakes. Then what the fuck are you doing here talking about those 2 bikes? Oh, right. You read about them. Good for you, good for you.

I won't waste my time responding to the rest of your post because you're basically just saying a bunch of stuff that I've already refuted, and you're just too stupid to realize it. If you didn't get it the first time around, you probably won't ever.

I do think it's hilarious that you think my opinion isn't valid because I don't own one or the other. It's called not being so biased that you turn 'pros' into 'cons' just to try to make your weak ass argument. But you clearly wouldn't know anything about that. I'm sure you're right... I'm sure ABS, a larger engine, more highway stability, lower seat height, and way more carrying capacity are entirely worthless on a touring machine. None of that matters at all. The only thing to consider when buying a touring scooter is how much it resembles a motorcycle, while disregarding everything else. You were right all along! lol.
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Old 06-19-2010, 04:15 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spotch
I won't waste my time responding to the rest of your post because you're basically just saying a bunch of stuff that I've already refuted, and you're just too stupid to realize it. If you didn't get it the first time around, you probably won't ever.

I do think it's hilarious that you think my opinion isn't valid because I don't own one or the other. It's called not being so biased that you turn 'pros' into 'cons' just to try to make your weak ass argument. But you clearly wouldn't know anything about that. I'm sure you're right... I'm sure ABS, a larger engine, more highway stability, lower seat height, and way more carrying capacity are entirely worthless on a touring machine. None of that matters at all. The only thing to consider when buying a touring scooter is how much it resembles a motorcycle, while disregarding everything else. You were right all along! lol.
You're still babbling about all this? Move on! What a douche...
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:55 PM   #28
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Tmax vs SilverWing from a Guy Who has Owned Both

Dudes,
This is my first post in a long time...maybe ever! I'm 50, I've ridden bikes and scooters my whole life, I ride a lot, and I've owned over 60 motorcycles of all sorts. I've owned two SilverWings (three if you count the GL500 Interstate I had years and years ago), and I now own a Tmax. I probably put about 6k miles on the SilverWings and I have just under 10k miles on the Tmax.

Now, far be it from me to step into a fight without being invited, but I thought that someone, someday may appreciate the perspective of a veteran rider with extensive experience of both machines.

Touring:
Yes, Silverwing. It has more storage, it's more comfortable, and it's softer. That being said, if I'm riding the scooter with bikes doing 80mph plus, I'd only want to be on the Tmax. Why? The Silverwings (both of them) were spongy to the point of dangerous over 85mph. They'd wallow in fast sweepers. I actually think their poor handling more than offsets the advantage of ABS.
Can you tour on an Tmax? Hell yes. I've ridden 650 miles a day, two days in a row, on two different occasions. So, yeah, it's definitely easy to tour on, just not as cozy as the Swing.

Handling:
Duh. Like comparing an Impala to a Miata. I had an FZ6 at the same time as the Tmax. I think the Tmax handled as good, actually better than the FZ. How? It is a rare combination of stability (long wheelbase and low center of gravity) and quick handling. It does not get unsettled in bumpy corners, you can change lines easily, and it has lean angles that exceed my comfort. Cruisers cannot keep up with the Tmax, and sportbike riders have to be pretty good to keep up and be riding aggressively. I have a buddy with an FZ6 who raced motorcross when he was younger, and he's been amazed at what I can do.
The Swing...boring. Vanilla. I never felt safe pushing it in corners - too rubbery.

Maintenance:
Actually, pretty cheap on both. 26k valve adjust interval on the Tmax, 15k(?) on the Swing. Belt change on both around 12k?? I change the oil myself and do some maintenance, so no big deal. Changing the belt, well, I'll find out (I think I'll put in a race variator when I do it), but I think it's the price I pay for not having to worry about the chain!
Oh, bad on the Swing - both of mine rattled in the fairing. IRRITATING!!!! The Tmax is tight.

Around town:
No difference, no problem. Like comparing Coke and Pepsi...who cares?

Fun:
It is worth it to me to tour on the Tmax so that when I get there (wherever), I can have some fun on the bike! The Tmax is a bike you want to ride. The Silverwing is a great bike, absolutely. I was happy with it. It was just too, um, boring.
In terms of quickness, the Swing really does have a lag for the first 10 mph that is frustrating. After that, I think they are probably equal. But the Tmax is more fun to twist, you feel it more, hear it more. Much more visceral.

Finally:
I just rode a few days with 3 good buddies with Harley's. They started off kind of poking fun at the scooter good-naturedly, and ended up being amazed at it. They were following me on some nice rides, and I was taking it pretty easy. They told me they were scraping parts at times to keep up. I eventually followed them (we caught up with 2 other guys with Harley's going pretty slow, so I waved my buddies past). I actually rode with 1 hand and took pictures with the other.

RESULTS....
Buy whichever one you want. You won't get bored as fast on the Tmax. If all you are going to do is ride highways and not go above 80mph, get the Swing. But of course, by all means remember (AND THIS IS TRUE FOR ALL OF US), DO WHATEVER THE HELL YOUR WIFE WANTS BECAUSE THAT WILL JUST MAKE YOUR LIFE A LOT EASIER!

PEACE, MY BIKER BROTHERS!
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Old 07-29-2010, 06:20 AM   #29
Mike in flossmoor
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I don't have any experience with the tmax but have put some 40,000 miles on the Silverwing. The wing is a porker at 550 pounds but 500 pounds is not that much different. Mine rattles but I have dropped it many times and it has lots of broken tabs. The springs on the wing are soft I replaced them front and back and solved that problem. Any bike as you ride a little you will need to adjust seat, windshield, mirrors, suspension maybe darkside tires I added a trailer hitch. Until it is right for you. After 5 years the scoot is about right for me and probably unsellable.
If I was recommending something different from a Motorcycle I would consider either Kymco Downtown 300I or the Honda SH 300 as they are in the 350 pound range with around 30 hp and fast enough to tour. Though I have traveled 1200 miles over a weekend with camping gear on a Kymco Bet & Win 19 hp.

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Old 07-29-2010, 06:25 AM   #30
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@fgallucc - Wow, great review, thanks for your input and welcome to the forum!
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