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Old 02-14-2013, 12:18 PM   #241
Ghostyman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSF1200S View Post
The main thing I was hoping to hear more feedback on was writing the report during the ride versus after. This is why the vast majority of my last response addresses that discussion. Can we put away the switchblades?
No switchblades out, I had been thinking about your previous post from a few weeks ago for a while -- it ended up generating quite a lot of reflection, eh? I just threw out a few of the things I'd been thinking of vis a vis.


My absolute preference is for reports written during the ride. They aren't as polished but they have that air of danger that a post-trip report never can. It's best to follow these reports in real time versus going back to read them later.

Reports written after the fact often hold up better to repeated viewings. That's the polish that real-time reports lack.

I plan on posting daily during my ride, pending lack of Internet.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:43 PM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSF1200S View Post
"I am also not convince that any of these suggestions definitely indicate pleasing the audience, because your comment appears to underline -punt intended- that if one writes less for an audience/more for oneself, it is acceptable for the output to be of poorer content or lesser quality..."
I honestly didnt understand this completely. Can you explain this from another angle so that im sure I know what youre saying?
Posted before I had coffee, following a very late night. Very poorly phrased and equally incomprehensible

Generally speaking, when your are more to the right of the spectrum (------x Personal), even if you have very high standards and hold yourself accountable, it is IMHO likely that the output will be of lesser quality than if you tend to lean left of said spectrum. As one, we are of limited in our interpretation of life, as many we are infinite. I think this applies to any speech act, call it a Ride Report, a poem, a movie, etc...This interpretative limitation is artificial, because we have to be within set boundaries, and observe laws in order to be intelligible. I do believe that these borders should be push to the furthest point your audience can tolerate. If you go to far, you risk alienation and are -again- closer to neurosis. This reasoning does not apply to "purer” creative art forms such as painting, sculpting, and any other non-speech production. Here there are no/very few rules, and when not following conventions you risk less (in terms of audience). You have the leisure to be personal, egocentric, and why not narcissistic. The interpretation of the output, regardless of perceive quality, is a lot less guided, and a lot more left for the audience's imagination.

Maybe richness or depth are more appropriate and less subjective than quality.

This said I don't know that any speech act can be more or less personal/audience oriented as you describe it in your illustration. Both elements/concepts are fundamental and to an extent foundational to any act of rhetoric (I know I said that before). So in my mind it's not so much that a ride report may be oriented one way or another as much as a ride report may only exist in the world as Rhetor - Audience - Context.

You may interpret it or intend it to be more personal, your audience might agree or not with you depending on context, all three are indissociable.
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:17 AM   #243
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Write On

With time on my hands I have been reading through many "Ride Reports." I have also read through this forum and initially thought I had something to contribute about "good" trip (i.e. Travel) writing. But I don't. I find I like all the reports in whatever form, style, or skill level they are writen in.

This live interactive blogging is a completely new genre. It has not found its footing yet and I'm glad for that. So friends, keep writing and posting & ride safe.
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Old 02-16-2013, 01:04 PM   #244
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ac_elite, I read your report back when it was live, but did you change monikers?

Nice discussion everyone!
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Old 02-16-2013, 02:41 PM   #245
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Reporting Live vs. Later

I see many pros and cons for reporting live or waiting until later. I have always reported after the trip, but I do enjoy many aspects of reading live reports. I'll try to list some of the pros and cons I see with each method. I encourage you to add your own reasons I surely missed.

Live Reporting Pros:

*When you get home, its done.
*Your writing can be drawn from a fresher memory.
*Will not be an over-whelming task to finish later.
*May create a greater expectation of what's to come for the reader.
*The experience of sharing from the road enriches the journey.
*Can be a way to keep friends and family updated.
*You may develop followers along your route that can;
-Ride along for sections
-Suggest Routes, Restaurants, Places to Visit
-Offer assistance when the inevitable problems arise
-Offer Accommodations

Live Reporting Cons

*Can be a time-consuming task limiting time spent actually enjoying the journey.
*If you miss even one beautiful sunset because you were in a room typing, you lose.
*Requires Frequent Internet Access
*Usually requires packing a computer
*May limit your daily distances and where you choose to stay
*Limits the time spent perfecting your art/masterpiece
*You may develop followers along your route that will;
-Want to ride along for sections
-Suggest Routes, Restaurants, Places to Visit
-Insist on meeting


Post-Ride Reporting Pros

*The only part of the journey affected by the RR is the collection of photos/videos/notes.
*Can disappear off the grid for longer periods of time.
*Excessive/Obsessive amounts of time can be used later for photo and video post-production as well as creative writing. DAMHIK
*A hook can be set in the first post with actual photos and/or videos from the trip encouraging readers to follow.
*Long gaps with no updates can be avoided.
*Can pack lighter (no computer/cables/chargers needed)
*The title of the report can be accurate/No title yet to live up to while riding. (IOW, If the title states you are riding to the
North Pole in winter and you decide to turn around and head for home because you got chili in Arizona you will not risk embarrassment/banishment.)

Post Ride-Reporting Cons

*Your memory will fade over time and may affect your reporting style
*The report can be a monumental task that you never start
*If you enjoy the interaction with other inmates during the journey you may miss this.
*You may need help along the way and it may be harder to find without readers already invested in your journey.
*May need lots of memory cards/storage (I used over 135 GB in just 25 days last summer)


Reporting live is obviously the way to go when doing a RTW trip or anything longer than a few weeks. Even then, many RTW riders find time during layovers/rest periods to update the report. Even though these reports go on for years the reporter is actually doing for of a post-ride report after each section. (Exemplary Example: From Estonia with Love) If you already limit your riding to a few hundred miles and frequently find yourself in a motel room with nothing to do, then obviously you may enjoy live-reporting. If, like me, you plan to go as far each day as possible and ride sunrise to sunset before seeking out a free campsite with no internet and you also want to edit your photos and video first, then you should probably stick to reporting after the fact. If you are motivated to create a masterpiece of Ride Report Art then you'll probably need more than a couple hours of crappy WiFi each night.

Of course, there is another option. I've seen reports that start with a nice pre-trip introduction, followed by short updates with only a few photos, and finally a detailed post-trip report. This may be the best of both worlds if you don't lose the audience before getting to the good stuff.

In case you didn't check it out the first time, here is your required reading assignment: From Estonia with Love
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:31 PM   #246
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From Estonia with Love

Talk about setting the bar high with Margus and Kariina.

Dave, I did not change monikers, the Jackie and Valentino bit only develop during the trip itself, what I use here has never changed.

I will also commit to doing my RR during the ride, I think that if you have multiple writers it adds depth and richness. Look at the Sibirsky team right now, but that's true if you complement each other as opposed to repeating the same thing with similar pics, which we all have seen. So for us the perspective should be both riders on their bikes and 1 pillion.

That list is pretty complete, let's add the notion of perspective to the post ride RR, although you memory will not necessarily be as fresh, if you keep good notes that's what I did during our EU trip, hindsight may make your reporting better rounded. I guess it's a toss between perspective and raw emotions, just because of the time available to process your experiences into an output (pics/vid/texts...). There might be an definite delay period though, where your creativity as a writer/producer may still be stimulated by the ride and refreshed by the "recent" memories. Past a certain time you become a dud.

I experienced quite a bit of reverse culture shock when I came back from Europe, the fact that I did not like where I was living then did not help, but taking the time to generate the RR after the fact was therapeutic.

When we did our 6 weeks to Baja last Fall, I opted not to build a RR because I wanted to focus on all the logistics of the trip, as we considered it a trial run with the GSA prior to S.A. I was also in need of a lot of rest, and I felt that I would have missed too many sunsets.

Again great thread Dave.
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:14 PM   #247
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Good ideas but there's lots more to think about than just those
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:19 AM   #248
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Pro & Con

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave6253 View Post
I see many pros and cons for reporting live or waiting until later....
Live Reporting Pros:

* There is more emotion in a live report. The rider/writer's feelings are raw, which translates into a visceral reading experience.

Live Reporting Cons:

* There is too much emotion in a live report. Details and facts get missed.
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:39 AM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave6253 View Post
I see many pros and cons for reporting live or waiting until later. I have always reported after the trip, but I do enjoy many aspects of reading live reports. I'll try to list some of the pros and cons I see with each method. I encourage you to add your own reasons I surely missed.

Live Reporting Pros:

*When you get home, its done.
*Your writing can be drawn from a fresher memory.
*Will not be an over-whelming task to finish later.
*May create a greater expectation of what's to come for the reader.
*The experience of sharing from the road enriches the journey.
*Can be a way to keep friends and family updated.
*You may develop followers along your route that can;
-Ride along for sections
-Suggest Routes, Restaurants, Places to Visit
-Offer assistance when the inevitable problems arise
-Offer Accommodations

Live Reporting Cons

*Can be a time-consuming task limiting time spent actually enjoying the journey.
*If you miss even one beautiful sunset because you were in a room typing, you lose.
*Requires Frequent Internet Access
*Usually requires packing a computer
*May limit your daily distances and where you choose to stay
*Limits the time spent perfecting your art/masterpiece
*You may develop followers along your route that will;
-Want to ride along for sections
-Suggest Routes, Restaurants, Places to Visit
-Insist on meeting


Post-Ride Reporting Pros

*The only part of the journey affected by the RR is the collection of photos/videos/notes.
*Can disappear off the grid for longer periods of time.
*Excessive/Obsessive amounts of time can be used later for photo and video post-production as well as creative writing. DAMHIK
*A hook can be set in the first post with actual photos and/or videos from the trip encouraging readers to follow.
*Long gaps with no updates can be avoided.
*Can pack lighter (no computer/cables/chargers needed)
*The title of the report can be accurate/No title yet to live up to while riding. (IOW, If the title states you are riding to the
North Pole in winter and you decide to turn around and head for home because you got chili in Arizona you will not risk embarrassment/banishment.)

Post Ride-Reporting Cons

*Your memory will fade over time and may affect your reporting style
*The report can be a monumental task that you never start
*If you enjoy the interaction with other inmates during the journey you may miss this.
*You may need help along the way and it may be harder to find without readers already invested in your journey.
*May need lots of memory cards/storage (I used over 135 GB in just 25 days last summer)


Reporting live is obviously the way to go when doing a RTW trip or anything longer than a few weeks. Even then, many RTW riders find time during layovers/rest periods to update the report. Even though these reports go on for years the reporter is actually doing for of a post-ride report after each section. (Exemplary Example: From Estonia with Love) If you already limit your riding to a few hundred miles and frequently find yourself in a motel room with nothing to do, then obviously you may enjoy live-reporting. If, like me, you plan to go as far each day as possible and ride sunrise to sunset before seeking out a free campsite with no internet and you also want to edit your photos and video first, then you should probably stick to reporting after the fact. If you are motivated to create a masterpiece of Ride Report Art then you'll probably need more than a couple hours of crappy WiFi each night.

Of course, there is another option. I've seen reports that start with a nice pre-trip introduction, followed by short updates with only a few photos, and finally a detailed post-trip report. This may be the best of both worlds if you don't lose the audience before getting to the good stuff.

In case you didn't check it out the first time, here is your required reading assignment: From Estonia with Love
Dave, nice clear and concise summary and thanks for the required reading. It is easy to see why you are one of the best writers out there.
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Old 03-03-2013, 07:47 PM   #250
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I like to do the RR during the ride. I never had a memory, so the report is for me (and everyone else) to re-live. After about 3 or 4 days; the trip becomes one huge blur of total enjoyment.
My trips are on the road. I'll stop at motels or rv parks with internet. If I do a free campsite, I'll write as much as I can on the laptop. If I know I'm going to be camping without internet, I'll try to keep in touch with the followers by sending a little message via my smart phone.

I carry a 11.5 netbook with a memory card slot. I'll file my pics every night. Cull the bad ones. I use the camera as my notebook by taking pics of signs and the gps. It is hanging around my neck on a stretchy lanyard.
There has been some nice tips and I'll try to improve my photography a bit to help the reports.

Remember; just write what happens.

Reading my own report years later is a great way to pass the winter and boost the next adventure (and memories).

P.S. tip: I select all (by right clicking) and then copy before posting the typed out report. If for some reason the internet got dropped, I've still got all the evenings work stored and could still paste it into a word doc. KEN
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:58 PM   #251
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I tried it both ways and I like the Live Report better.

First and foremost, I write the report for myself more than anyone else so it is more important to me to jot down my raw experiences as they happen than to reflect on them after the fact. In other words, after the trip I would rather read my own report than to write a ride report.

I also like the interactivity of it all. In an ideal world, one could get some feedback and actionable suggestions as the ride happens. In an ideal world, I could see myself meeting up with some other advriders along the way, or taking unexpected detours based on suggestions I receive.

The drawbacks are connectivity and schedule. I dropped some of my ride reports 1/2 way simply because I didn't have the time to write and post any entries. On other reports, I hoped to incorporate some video footage but this proved very painful considering the abysmal upload speeds many places have.
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:52 AM   #252
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Fantastic thread, Dave!

Lots of good info from everyone contributing.

From your latest RR:
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilClown View Post


Dang.

When I grow up I wanna be able to shoot like you do.



As you may have guessed, I'm particularly interested in the photo portion but it's all great reading.

Figgered I'd get a glimpse behind the scenes with the man behind the lens. Maybe get some insight as to how you got where you are.

Thank you for including the info here. Wondering what version of Lightroom you are using? Still 3 or another program altogether?

In an effort to make some kind of contribution I'll add the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave6253 View Post
...



...

Any other moving shooters have anything to add???
I've done the lanyard thing with my camera for some time now. Will be looking into your method as I like the low down shots you're able to obtain this way. Mine are limited to the short tie-length leash around my neck.

One thing I noticed on one of my earlier versions was that thin little string looped through the camera's ring was just about worn all the way through. Thankfully, I caught it in time and didn't lose a camera. Low tech but a tiny zip-tie has replaced that and has made a stronger connection. I get rid of the factory lanyard altogether.

I'm sure there are other solutions but the idea is is keep an eye on that string. Hate to see you or anyone else lose their camera.

Although I don't always keep the best or most complete notes, I do try to take them as even though at the moment you think you'll never forget it, you will.

I've found a field book to be a pretty good place for these notes...



...as they are water resistant - particularly if you use a pencil. They can also stand a bit of abuse.

Thanks again for the thread and your RRs.

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Old 03-24-2013, 01:55 PM   #253
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In a nutshell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcan Rider View Post
The most important thing is to just do it. No matter how poorly a ride report might appear to its author, someone, somewhere will read it... and wish they could do one as well.
Love this thread and many of the suggestions posted but this is the best one here.
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Old 03-24-2013, 05:38 PM   #254
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Post-processing Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilClown View Post
Thank you for including the info here. Wondering what version of Lightroom you are using? Still 3 or another program altogether?
Thanks EC!

Although it has been awhile since I wrote about photography and post-processing, I'm still using Lightroom 3.6.
Lightroom 4 is a smoking deal considering the drastic drop in price between versions 3 and 4. Lightroom 3 is still
working for me, so I didn't see enough reasons for spend money on the upgrade.

I've continued to work on learning photography and at trying to improve. I think I have improved some and learned a lot since I started this thread.
I found I was using my cameras mostly when out on trips. In between adventures the cameras often set dormant. That's no way to learn.
In an effort to push myself to shoot more frequently and to delve into areas I consider my weakest, I committed to doing a 365 project.
That means I'll shoot and post one photo every single day for a year. I'm up to day 114 and have not had to cheat yet, though some are not as good as others.
Most of the photographs in my 365 project gallery are not motorcycle related, but if you are interested check out the gallery on my smugmug page.

I currently shoot nearly everything in RAW and start and finish each photo in Lightroom 3.6.
If I want to process any as an HDR image they get sent from Lightroom to Photomatix Pro 4.2.
(For more info on HDR processing see the Motorcycles in HDR thread.)
For Panoramas I use the freeware Microsoft ICE. I've found this much better than the expensive (compared to free) Arcsoft Panorama Maker.
After uploading to smugmug, I occasionally use PicMonkey, which is also free and incredibly powerful and fun.
(You can easily send any photo to PicMonkey from the tools menu in smugmug.)
That's it. I don't use any other software, and still have never owned a copy of Photoshop.
I do process each photo individually and use presets only as starting points.
My workflow is time-consuming and definitely not for everyone. I could save time by batch processing,
but I can never leave well enough alone when it comes to post-processing.
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:37 PM   #255
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Camera Updates

I still have this Panasonic ZS5 PnS camera and may shoot some more trips with it, but I have a huge problem with regular point-n-shoots.
Dust! The telescoping lens that pops out creates a vacumn inside that sucks in the dust. I get tired of cloning out stupid dust spots,
so I learned how to take apart the camera to clean the sensor. I have cleaned the sensor on this camera at least 3 times.
Each time I return home I have to clone out more stupid dust spots.

There has to be a better solution.






So I tried the waterproof, dustproof, dropproof, freezeproof TS3.
The menus were weird, the camera felt cheap, and the images were not as good as the ZS5.
I never got used to the lens location and often found a finger in the photos.
The novelty of taking photos in the rain and hot tub wore off quickly.
I was happy when my wife revealed the TS3 had a weakness.
(You'll have to read Our Alaska RR to learn how she managed to do that.)





I found a micro four thirds Olympus PEN EPL1 on sale at Amazon. I realized being able to remove the lens to clean the sensor was a huge plus.
The other Pros-
*Huge sensor (compared to PnS)
*Image Quality
*RAW (I'll process my own, thank you.)
*Not much Larger than PnS with 17mm pancake lens
* Shallow Depth of Field if I want it.
* Extremely Good Battery Life
*$300 total with a used 17mm lens!
*Can still be used one-handed while riding (probably easier to operate and hold, but not as fast to get out.)
*I have used this for 2 moto trips now, with no dust specks! (I haven't had to clean the sensor once.)
*Multiple lenses available
*A cheap adapter will allow my DSLR lenses.

Cons-
*Not as small
*No automatic lens cover for shooting while riding (I use a small metal hood and leave the lens cap off in the tankbag.)
*Takes a little longer to take out of the tankbag.
*Not pocketable, especially with the lens hood.
*Not weather-sealed.
*No Zoom with the pancake lens




The Olympus takes great images. So good in fact, that I find myself using the DSLR less when off the bike.



The 17mm lens is equivalent to about 34mm on a full frame camera. This is not as wide as most Point-n-shoots widest.
Because the lens isn't as wide I find myself shooting more panoramas (a good thing),
but getting shots of the front wheel are more difficult and aiming has to be more precise.
I have had success using this camera and lens for my last 2 RRs.
I plan to make a padded compartment in the tankbag so I can hopefully be faster on the draw, and maybe not have to use the lens hood.

My DSLR is a Pentax K-5.
I still like shooting landscapes, macros, timelapse, and HDR brackets with the DSLR and will continue to carry it on moto trips,
but the micro four thirds mirrorless camera was a great addition to my gear.
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