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Old 08-17-2010, 04:00 PM   #46
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I got the bike back together on Friday and rode about 600km over the weekend. Of course the fork mod was the big change and I was expecting to see a huge improvement in handling but I didn't. Even with the the much heavier front springs and thicker oil the front end dive under braking was much worse than stock, quickly approaching the range of dangerous. Playing with the adjuster/bleed screws made no difference. Unfortunately the valving is way out. I hope swapping to 15wt or 20wt fork oil will help or solve the issue.

The Woody's Wheels were excellent! The stockers were so tweaked that even running with Anakees, the vibration was so bad that my hands would go numb within a few minutes of riding. The 600km on the weekend were smooth and vibration free with the new (straight) rims. While standing and looking down at the front tire while in motion I noted it was dead straight, not a hint of a wobble. I know that's what I should expect to see but it's something I haven't experienced in well over 25,000km!

Woody's did an excellent job! Awesome communication, I never once got the impression they were getting annoyed with my endless emails with questions and asking for their thoughts. Only a few days for the work to be completed and then the rims were in the way back! Big thumbs up
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Old 08-20-2010, 06:07 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GNP77
I hope swapping to 15wt or 20wt fork oil will help or solve the issue.
I think this would only soften your rebound. To my knowledge, the oil plays no role in compression.

Brake dipping shouldn't occur to a new front HP set, there's something else that you overlooked. Are you sure the length is the recommended?
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Old 08-20-2010, 11:35 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GNP77
I got the bike back together on Friday and rode about 600km over the weekend. Of course the fork mod was the big change and I was expecting to see a huge improvement in handling but I didn't. Even with the the much heavier front springs and thicker oil the front end dive under braking was much worse than stock, quickly approaching the range of dangerous. Playing with the adjuster/bleed screws made no difference. Unfortunately the valving is way out. I hope swapping to 15wt or 20wt fork oil will help or solve the issue.

The Woody's Wheels were excellent! The stockers were so tweaked that even running with Anakees, the vibration was so bad that my hands would go numb within a few minutes of riding. The 600km on the weekend were smooth and vibration free with the new (straight) rims. While standing and looking down at the front tire while in motion I noted it was dead straight, not a hint of a wobble. I know that's what I should expect to see but it's something I haven't experienced in well over 25,000km!

Woody's did an excellent job! Awesome communication, I never once got the impression they were getting annoyed with my endless emails with questions and asking for their thoughts. Only a few days for the work to be completed and then the rims were in the way back! Big thumbs up
There used to be a Marzocchi service manuel on the net that should be of some help, but I no longer can find it.
First of all I think you need to contact Superplush and get some answers on their set up.
Generally, fork tuners will steer you away from variable rate springs. It is very difficult to get the right shim stack when they have to deal with a changing spring rate as well as making the proper stack to account for it.
The 10 weight oil that came with the springs is meant to be used with the stock BMW fork to slow the passage of oil through whatever orifaces are used in the stock fork. Typically cartridge forks use a lighter oil, I think you are going in the wrong direction.
Pulling out your spacer has no bearing on SAG. You are lowering the front ride height, but static sag really means how much the spring compresses with the bike alone. In your case, rider sag it is still 24%, indicating a very stiff spring. You are correct, 30% is about right for this type of bike.
For your info, my dealer gave me the same weight limitations on the "lighter" Hyperpros, WTF.
Oil weight, has a great factor on compression.
Since it appears that the bike is over sprung, based on the Sag numbers, yet has a lot of fork dive, I am guessing the heavy oil is causing excessive bending of the shims. In short, you are blowing through the valving.
For lighter bikes, Marzocchi recomments 7.5 weight oil, your tuner should have accounted for the weight difference in building the shim stack, so I would start there.
I have never rebuilt a fork, but I have done a shock, similiar principle. To place on a heavier bike, I started with 10 weight oil. Made the ride harsh and compression and rebound adjustments had little effect. I ended up with 2.5 wt oil and all was well. What do you know, that was the recommended wt by the manufacture for the donor bike.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:03 PM   #49
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Thanks for the input. My comment on removing the spacing to increase SAG is correct because I was removing preload, I did pick up that 14mm in sag.

I have been in contact with Superplush about it but haven't heard back yet. Thicker oil blowing past the shim stacks is an interesting idea, hadn't occurred to me. Bike suspension is new to me but I have experience with larger King coilover shocks and Fox AirShox. Increasing oil weight decreased shaft travel speed.

I'll wait to see what Superplush has to say about it. They did mention they don't recommend or like working with progressive rates for the same reason you mentioned. We'll see shortly what they recommend to solve this problem.

Cory
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:02 PM   #50
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[quote=GNP77]Thanks for the input. My comment on removing the spacing to increase SAG is correct because I was removing preload, I did pick up that 14mm in sag.


I guess I would have to see it to understand exactly what you did. So the bike has a preload adjuster that compresses the spring from the top and an additional spacer used? I suppose if the the spring was very compressed with the two you would be right. No matter, I am sure Superplush will get it squared away.
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:13 PM   #51
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[QUOTE=itsatdm]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNP77
Thanks for the input. My comment on removing the spacing to increase SAG is correct because I was removing preload, I did pick up that 14mm in sag.


I guess I would have to see it to understand exactly what you did. So the bike has a preload adjuster that compresses the spring from the top and an additional spacer used? I suppose if the the spring was very compressed with the two you would be right. No matter, I am sure Superplush will get it squared away.
There's no preload adjuster on the Shivers. Preload is added with different thicknesses of spacers same as the stock F8 forks. The uncompressed length of the spring + the spacer is the exact same length as the void (for lack of a better word) in the fork body. There is no pressure on the spring when the forks are fully extended. With the spacer I had in it before the spring was compressed 14mm when the forks were fully extended.
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Old 08-22-2010, 07:51 PM   #52
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I decided to add a guard to protect the engine case in the event of another broken chain. I bought the TouraTech version. There are 3 holes that attach the original plastic cover as well as the TT aluminum guard. I managed to %$^ up the lower hole shortly after the buying the bike. There was a bunch of chain lube and dirt around the hole and I ended up packing the hole with gunk making it impossible to get the bolt back in.

Due to the TT engine guard being mounted back under the foot pegs, the guard tube is in the way and I can't get the tap handle so I just used needle nose pliers.



Needle nose pliers, not a good idea


2hours worth of dental pick work and I finally got it out




I got the guard installed, hopefully I don't need it.


I had some welding to finish on the pannier racks so I had to disconnect the battery. It seemed like a good time to swap the new battery in. I had planned on installing a DEKA (made by West Penn). I happened upon a thread that said Napa was now supplied by West Penn. I had called my local Napa and sure enough they sell re-stickered Dekas and the ETX14 was on sale for $117, perfect!

Deka next to the temporary 9ah battery (plus the trailside repair shims)


I installed a small voltmeter at the same time.
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Old 08-22-2010, 08:22 PM   #53
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Those Shivers will knock your teeth out. Mine, even after re valving were just awful. Almost like having 2 2x4s for forks. In fact Ive never met a Zoke I liked.
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Old 08-22-2010, 09:54 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot
Those Shivers will knock your teeth out. Mine, even after re valving were just awful. Almost like having 2 2x4s for forks. In fact Ive never met a Zoke I liked.

Interesting. -W- and Gangplank are thrilled with their Shivers in the F8. Mine certainly aren't harsh, they are too soft. I'm confident that we'll get them dialled in and set-up properly. Time will tell I suppose!
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Old 08-23-2010, 05:41 AM   #55
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Well Im referring to the oem Shivers that came on my TE610 Husky. Really, really harsh.
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Old 08-23-2010, 09:00 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GNP77
I hope swapping to 15wt or 20wt fork oil will help or solve the issue.
Absolutely do not go that heavy. If you truly need oil that heavy, your valving is way off. Get the valving fixed first, that's why you did this in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tserts
I think this would only soften your rebound. To my knowledge, the oil plays no role in compression.
Not true. Everything plays a role in everything. Rebound valving is however...lets call it "less tight"...than compression valving, so changing the oil weight has more of an effect on overall compression than rebound.
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Old 08-23-2010, 10:19 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxr140
Absolutely do not go that heavy. If you truly need oil that heavy, your valving is way off. Get the valving fixed first, that's why you did this in the first place.
I spoke with James today and he backed up what itsatdm posted about thicker oil over bending the shim stacks. Also, most bleeds (clickers) are designed for 5 to 7.5wt oil so the thick oil doesn't flow though them properly making the adjusters ineffective. James recommended trying a lighter oil and tweak the valving from there.

I did a BWM Motorrad GS off road training course today, it was at a motorcross track. After the course was over I played around on a few of the sections and was pretty happy with the forks in that environment. I got a bit of air and pounded through some really rough stuff. The forks felt pretty good, never bottomed. Based on the zip-tie test I still had about 2" of travel left despite the beating it took. It is a dual sport so I guess it's all about finding the balance between on-road and off-road.



Right at the end of the day I spit out the seals on the left fork. It seems that when I reassembled the forks (at 4am) I forgot the put the seal retainer snap ring...





Is there anyway to clean oil soaked brake pads or do I need to replace them? They are 75% so I'd hate to replace them if I don't need to.
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Old 08-24-2010, 07:21 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GNP77
Based on the zip-tie test I still had about 2" of travel left despite the beating it took.
If you truly beat it and you still have over 20% of your travel available, its set up too stiff...or you have too much travel.
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Old 08-24-2010, 10:04 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxr140
If you truly beat it and you still have over 20% of your travel available, its set up too stiff...or you have too much travel.
Yeah currently I have about 2" left but that's with an unloaded bike. Once my tank bag, panniers and dry bag go on as well as a bigger fuel tank I'm expecting it will be about right. We'll see if the lighter oil gets me to where I need to be. As far as "truly beating it" I'm a new(ish) rider so my beatings will likely get more intense as time goes on
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Old 08-24-2010, 11:37 AM   #60
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You may have less than that. Never thought to check when i installed my Bitubo's, but I have wondered since. Is there was something internal that would stop the fork before the last few inches are used up. Only way to check is pull the springs, put the cap on and see how far the fork will compress.
Your picture is about the same as my Bitubo.
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