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Old 11-03-2010, 09:57 AM   #1516
DockingPilot
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Old 11-03-2010, 10:01 AM   #1517
sailwa66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravehunter
Apples to Oranges. That is a dirtbike no good for long distance riding. I'm sure some people do it, but the vast majority of us would not ride that on a long trip. 36"+ seat height, 3 gallons of gas.... its worthless to me.
If thats what you like cool, go buy one and be happy.
First of all, I'm never happy... ask anyone who knows me.

The 690E is just a few parts away from being a 690 Adventure (but if you're KTM, apparently adding those few already-existing, yet unavailable-to-the-public parts is a daunting task), which is essentially a refined 640 Adventure, which is no stranger to circling the globe. Adding a larger tank, a better seat, and a few other trinkets for sure won't bring the 690's wet weight over 400lbs. Undercutting the GS & XC by well over 60lbs... and gain I say,

Dayam those are some heavy pistons!

Or so the voices in my head tell me.
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Old 11-03-2010, 10:06 AM   #1518
Boon Booni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailwa66
First of all, I'm never happy... ask anyone who knows me.

The 690E is just a few parts away from being a 690 Adventure (but if you're KTM, apparently adding those few already-existing, yet unavailable-to-the-public parts is a daunting task), which is essentially a refined 640 Adventure, which is no stranger to circling the globe. Adding a larger tank, a better seat, and a few other trinkets for sure won't bring the 690's wet weight over 400lbs. Undercutting the GS & XC by well over 60lbs... and gain I say,

Dayam those are some heavy pistons!

Or so the voices in my head tell me.
Pistons, cylinders, cam shafts, con rods, valves, crank, head, water jacket, valve cover, spark plugs, bearings, coils..

How much should another cylinder, or two each weigh?
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Old 11-03-2010, 10:08 AM   #1519
markbvt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot
Ah yes. My friend is an ex ISDE rider with a SE. That bike is in a whole different ballpark.
Yeah, simply from the standpoint of being interested in bikes but not being a motorcycle designer/engineer, I'm curious what makes the SE so much better. On paper, its specs are remarkably close to those of an F800GS. So what makes the difference? It would be interesting to know.

By the same token, obviously, I'm curious how the new Tiger's dirt capability will compare to its spec sheet and to other bikes in the class.

--mark
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Old 11-03-2010, 10:10 AM   #1520
markbvt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Booni
Pistons, cylinders, cam shafts, con rods, valves, crank, head, water jacket, valve cover, spark plugs, bearings, coils..

How much should another cylinder, or two each weigh?
Don't forget the stouter frame to handle the engine's greater power output.

--mark
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Old 11-03-2010, 10:22 AM   #1521
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This is interesting: the Triumph UK website has finally been updated with specs, and the fuel tank has gone up to 19.7 liters. I wouldn't say no to an extra quart of gas.

Some of the other specs are slightly different too.

I wonder which version's correct.

--mark
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Old 11-03-2010, 10:35 AM   #1522
lightfighter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markbvt
Yeah, simply from the standpoint of being interested in bikes but not being a motorcycle designer/engineer, I'm curious what makes the SE so much better. On paper, its specs are remarkably close to those of an F800GS. So what makes the difference? It would be interesting to know.


--mark
the SE and the GS specs are similar?

1. its what the SE does NOT have, lots of plastic, and what it does have is soft bendy dirtbike type plastic.

2. suspension suspension suspension. a road(or trail) that commands a certian maximum speed on a GS or Strom, you can ride in "controlled crash" mode on an SE at something like twice that speed cuz the bike wont break itself, or pitch you off into the giggle weeds.
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Old 11-03-2010, 10:39 AM   #1523
Gravehunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailwa66
First of all, I'm never happy... ask anyone who knows me.

The 690E is just a few parts away from being a 690 Adventure (but if you're KTM, apparently adding those few already-existing, yet unavailable-to-the-public parts is a daunting task), which is essentially a refined 640 Adventure, which is no stranger to circling the globe. Adding a larger tank, a better seat, and a few other trinkets for sure won't bring the 690's wet weight over 400lbs. Undercutting the GS & XC by well over 60lbs... and gain I say,

Dayam those are some heavy pistons!

Or so the voices in my head tell me.
Its in interesting bike. But go adding lots of things to make it more distance capable you are just adding weight to it.
It will be lighter in the end i give you that. I've never ridden that bike, but a single cylinder small displacment bike is usually not much fun for long distance riding. It would still be giving up alot IMO. Just depends on how much long distance riding is part of your riding. etc..

I think your abour right with your 60 lbs there. But is the 60 lbs worth the engine difference? Not to me, but maybe to many. Give and take.

The Tiger could certainly come in lighter for sure! We'll all just have to see how it performs in testing.

Its a toss up for me.
Tiger XC as the only bike
Or
Tenere and get a true dual sport.
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:05 AM   #1524
Sock Monkey
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The "right" weight?

With all this talk about weight, I thought I'd throw this out there just for fun: As most of you know, certain motorcycles have a "designed in" weight. For example, a Harley Davidson touring bike *could* weigh less, and the MoCo certainly has the design chops to do so, but they don't because they actually WANT the weight to be where it is because of ride characteristics, user input (and expectations), etc. Could the same be true of these "middle-weight" adventure touring bikes?

Now, before you burn me at the stake, hear me out. I know many folks take 300'ish lb. dirt bikes and chuck tons of crappola on them and travel to far away places. They handle like shit (been there, did that). They wallow in the gnarly stuff, struggle in the rocky stuff, and are generally a handful to ride (and most break *something*...sub-frames, swing-arms, etc.). Why? Because they weren't *designed* for that. Take a nice, light, powerful off-road bike and pile 300+ lbs of rider, fuel, and "necessities" way up high, and you get a mess.

Maybe the good folks at BMW and Triumph, who spend millions of $$$ on R&D, actually know WTF they're doing and selected a target weight because it's what they discovered, through testing, to be the *right weight* for the intended use of the bike, both in terms of structural integrity and proper load balance.

As for me, I'll ride the new Tiger once it hits our shores, wait for the "early adopters" to report on any build issues (leaking this, failing that, blah blah blah) and then decide based on MY intended use.

Ride Safe.

-NoVector
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Sock Monkey screwed with this post 11-03-2010 at 11:12 AM
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:39 AM   #1525
Abbotson
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TIGER 800
Price approx 7,000.00 GBP = 11,252.19 USD
ABS version +600.00 GBP = 964.255 USD
http://www.woodsmotorcycles.co.uk/mo...800-I86877.htm

TIGER 800XC
Price approx 7,600.00 GBP = 12,214.21 USD
ABS version +600.00 GBP = 964.255 USD
http://www.woodsmotorcycles.co.uk/mo...0XC-I86878.htm
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:50 AM   #1526
markbvt
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We've been over the price thing before. Straight exchange rate conversion to US dollars doesn't work because bikes are cheaper here in general.

Compare prices of other Triumph models. US prices are typically about 85% of UK prices at the current exchange rates.

--mark
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:05 PM   #1527
blacktiger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVector
Maybe the good folks at BMW and Triumph, who spend millions of $$$ on R&D, actually know WTF they're doing and selected a target weight because it's what they discovered, through testing, to be the *right weight* for the intended use of the bike, both in terms of structural integrity and proper load balance.
I totally agree with all you've written except that just about every BMW ride report I've read on a RTW trip has had to have its sub frame welded after a breakage. Hopefully Triumph will have done their sums and stress analysis better.

I was checking out seat heights in comparison with my Tiger955i which I find a bit tall for taking confidently into the rough stuff. The 955i seat is an adjustable 840~860mm. The XC is 845~865mm and the plain 800 is 810~830mm. With a 30" inseam I'm thinking the plain Tiger800 is the one for me.
Extra reasoning for that choice is that I recently took my Scrambler into the great unknown in Spain a couple of weeks ago and it coped even with it's 205kgs dry weight and totally NO ground clearance....but because it was so low it was easy to foot through the awkward stuff.
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:01 PM   #1528
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:38 PM   #1529
Keithy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapp22
This is well-put.
I would only add that at least the old Tiger had the rake angle that allowed it to step over SOME of the obstacles one runs into in the roughs. What the new one is shouting is that Triumph spent their effort on window dressing - probably trying to cosmetize some of the complaints about the Tiger 1050 being a pure road bike. BMW F8 remains unchallenged IMHO, with the one exception of the twin Katoom.
The new Tiger is just a road bike in drag. It will be skewered and grilled in any mixed-surface ride reviews against the good bikes
I thought you'd decided on an XT1200Z?

Hows that working out for ya?
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:41 PM   #1530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVector
Maybe the good folks at BMW and Triumph, who spend millions of $$$ on R&D, actually know WTF they're doing and selected a target weight because it's what they discovered, through testing, to be the *right weight* for the intended use of the bike, both in terms of structural integrity and proper load balance.

-NoVector
Hasn't anyone informed you that the mfg's don't know anything? The real experts are here posting on ADV!
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