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Old 02-01-2013, 01:34 AM   #15676
Ducken
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Triumph original fuel map

Another way to look at the fuel map situation: The Triumph Arrow fuel map is optimized for performance first and economy second, with the "for off road use only" disclaimer for legal EPA compliance issues. The Triumph original fuel map is for the best mix of performance and economy, but with compromises built in to meet EPA regulations, just like the OE muffler. Meaning squeaky clean, very lean idle and part throttle air fuel ratios. Some may not feel that there is enough difference between the maps to make the slight loss of fuel economy worth while. Others (Myself) like letting Triumph engineers set the map values for optimum performance, and can live with the slight difference in mileage. Making the EPA happy is not very high on my list. Enjoying the Tiger triple is. Ken
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:48 AM   #15677
bluesman
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Well...I'll be honest...
At 1.65 euro per 1 liter of 95 here I do care about good fuel economy. Not because of EPA, but cynical $$$ reason
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Old 02-01-2013, 05:38 AM   #15678
KildareMan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducken View Post
Another way to look at the fuel map situation: The Triumph Arrow fuel map is optimized for performance first and economy second, with the "for off road use only" disclaimer for legal EPA compliance issues. The Triumph original fuel map is for the best mix of performance and economy, but with compromises built in to meet EPA regulations, just like the OE muffler. Meaning squeaky clean, very lean idle and part throttle air fuel ratios. Some may not feel that there is enough difference between the maps to make the slight loss of fuel economy worth while. Others (Myself) like letting Triumph engineers set the map values for optimum performance, and can live with the slight difference in mileage. Making the EPA happy is not very high on my list. Enjoying the Tiger triple is. Ken
The Arrow can & tune are fully road legal. There is no "for off road use only" disclaimer on any of Triumph's websites, that I can find anyway.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:01 AM   #15679
DennyMyBoy
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Tiger 800XC vs. Trophy SE

Ok, so I'm a longtime rider of a comfortable and refined Gold Wing 1800 and the ST1300 from Honda. For a variety of reasons (work, health, family) I took a break from motorcycling 2 years ago. My biggest complaint with my last bike, the Honda ST1300, was how big and heavy it was, and the heat it put out on my legs. I ride alone 99% of the time, though have a 6-year old daughter who I hope to bring with me when she's older and ready. Being a father now I also try to be more conservative in the $$ I spend on motorcycling -- I make a decent living, but there are tons of other needs I am trying to honor.

Have been dreaming about the Tiger 800XC since the day it was released and have enjoyed a few great demo rides. I am more than ready to get back into riding. I came upon a 2012 left over and committed to buying it, including applying for a loan and signing dmv paperwork, but have not yet picked up bike due to winter temps and dealer awaiting arrival of a couple of accessories. I have been incredibly excited and counting the days til I can bring it home.

Soooo . . . yesterday I happened to be near another dealer and decided to drop in. They had 2 Trophys, including one that is available for demos. Wow. I looked at it, and said, "Oh shit. That bike looks amazing . . ." Sat on it, spent about a half an hour admiring it and looking it over. I didn't demo it but have a chance to next week.

My Tiger should be ready early next week. I'm having second thoughts about going ahead with the sale. Maybe just nervousness about pulling the trigger on an actual motorcycle instead of having the freedom to fantasize about any one I'd like to fantasize about, and consider buying at some point in the future. I have LOVED the rides I took on the Tiger, and its lighter weight and simplicity make sense for most of the riding I will do. BUT the greater refinement and sophistication and comfort of the new Trophy cannot be denied.

I don't want to screw over the dealer I've committed to. I also don't have to buy a brand new motorcycle I am having second thoughts about. (Maybe I need to swear off ever looking at other motorcycles! Hah!)

Have considered talking with my wife about this. I fear she would laugh in my face or be pissed at me for being fickle.

I'm about 50 years old, was hoping this bike would be the one I'd keep for 5-10 years, or more.

The Trophy would easily be $7,000-8,000 more OTD, which I could pull off, but is a lot of money to me. Am also mindful of the frustrations I had with the ST1300, a bike which the Trophy has a lot in common with.

I feel like my options are:
Demo the Trophy early next week to see how it rides, then decide, and level with the dealer if I want to change which bike I buy
Forgot about the Trophy and enjoy the heck out of the Tiger 800

Suggestions? Wisdom?

Thanks.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:29 AM   #15680
Yossarian™
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Demo the Trophy. If you like it better than the XC, buy it from the dealer you made the XC deal with. He'll be happy to be selling a bike, and you did commit to him.
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:16 PM   #15681
ssevy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian™ View Post
Demo the Trophy. If you like it better than the XC, buy it from the dealer you made the XC deal with. He'll be happy to be selling a bike, and you did commit to him.
That's great advice. All of the reviews so far (for what they are worth) seem to describe the Trophy as setting a new standard in the class. One reviewer (sorry, I can't remember which one) generally raved about all of Triumph's new model releases in the past few years, but thought this was so good that it was clearly the biggest leap yet.

Honestly, if some gravel/dirt road riding is in your future, but you like the bigger output of the Trophy for two-up, maybe the Explorer would actually give you some of each. I, too, spend way too much time (especially this time of the year) reading all the ride reports on this website. The dirt stuff like the Trans Lab and those big duelie rides out west get me thinking about an 800XC as an ideal choice. Then I think about all of the blacktopped secondary roads that I have yet to ride, and perhaps with an adult passenger and luggage, so then I think maybe the Trophy would be a better choice. The Explorer has some of each, so it, too, seems like something to consider. Finally, Triumph releases photos of the new Tiger Sport 1050, and I am totally smitten. I sat on the 800XC, the Trophy and the Explorer at the dealers this past week, and frankly it wasn't helpful. I can see myself on all three, and the only practical way to sort it out is to test ride all three back-to-back. I think the test ride advice is the way to go. Also, I remember when buying a TV how it was really difficult to choose between several very similar models. Once I realized that every one of them was going to be a huge improvement over what I was replacing, and I would not have the others around every day to compare, it made it much easier to live with the decision. I don't know if that mindset will work for motorcycles too, but I thought I would mention it. The most important advice, though, was to stick with your original dealer if they have invested their time with you, and they have a good reputation. Establishing good rapport with a dealer seems to be very important these days, especially with so many things on these bikes that we can no longer do for ourselves. Good luck!
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:24 PM   #15682
burmbuster
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I visited my dealer today and saw the Trophy in person for the first time. That bike is nothing short of awesome. The detail and eye appeal is amazing.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:44 PM   #15683
doxbike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyMyBoy View Post
Ok, so I'm a longtime rider of a comfortable and refined Gold Wing 1800 and the ST1300 from Honda. For a variety of reasons (work, health, family) I took a break from motorcycling 2 years ago. My biggest complaint with my last bike, the Honda ST1300, was how big and heavy it was, and the heat it put out on my legs. I ride alone 99% of the time, though have a 6-year old daughter who I hope to bring with me when she's older and ready. Being a father now I also try to be more conservative in the $$ I spend on motorcycling -- I make a decent living, but there are tons of other needs I am trying to honor.

Have been dreaming about the Tiger 800XC since the day it was released and have enjoyed a few great demo rides. I am more than ready to get back into riding. I came upon a 2012 left over and committed to buying it, including applying for a loan and signing dmv paperwork, but have not yet picked up bike due to winter temps and dealer awaiting arrival of a couple of accessories. I have been incredibly excited and counting the days til I can bring it home.

Soooo . . . yesterday I happened to be near another dealer and decided to drop in. They had 2 Trophys, including one that is available for demos. Wow. I looked at it, and said, "Oh shit. That bike looks amazing . . ." Sat on it, spent about a half an hour admiring it and looking it over. I didn't demo it but have a chance to next week.

My Tiger should be ready early next week. I'm having second thoughts about going ahead with the sale. Maybe just nervousness about pulling the trigger on an actual motorcycle instead of having the freedom to fantasize about any one I'd like to fantasize about, and consider buying at some point in the future. I have LOVED the rides I took on the Tiger, and its lighter weight and simplicity make sense for most of the riding I will do. BUT the greater refinement and sophistication and comfort of the new Trophy cannot be denied.

I don't want to screw over the dealer I've committed to. I also don't have to buy a brand new motorcycle I am having second thoughts about. (Maybe I need to swear off ever looking at other motorcycles! Hah!)

Have considered talking with my wife about this. I fear she would laugh in my face or be pissed at me for being fickle.

I'm about 50 years old, was hoping this bike would be the one I'd keep for 5-10 years, or more.

The Trophy would easily be $7,000-8,000 more OTD, which I could pull off, but is a lot of money to me. Am also mindful of the frustrations I had with the ST1300, a bike which the Trophy has a lot in common with.

I feel like my options are:
Demo the Trophy early next week to see how it rides, then decide, and level with the dealer if I want to change which bike I buy
Forgot about the Trophy and enjoy the heck out of the Tiger 800

Suggestions? Wisdom?

Thanks.
I, too, had an ST1300 that I sold to get the XC. I also have a Goldwing. Just sold my Harley, and am looking to buy a small dual sport.

FWIW, if you have a GW, forget the Trophy, get the Tigger, and if you sell the GW, then consider the Trophy as a second bike.

I don't care for the looks of the Trophy in person-kinda reminds me of a pregnant water buffalo, altho' I can't say why? Front end looks way unwieldy- Kinda like prior years' V-strom.

I think you need to decide what kinda riding you're really gonna do, then make the bike decision. My ST 1300 was too close to the GW so I was always trying to decide which one to take; the Harley usually lost the vote to the XC for blasting around, not to mention, playing in the dirt. So I made the choice to have two or three different bikes so I wouldn't have to choose-the planned ride would do it for me. Just my $.02. good luck
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:03 PM   #15684
strider.deano
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ssevy,

You have quite a decision to make. Like others have stated.....ride the Trophy.

I currently have a '08 St1300 sitting next to a '11 800XC. It's not really fair to compare these two bikes. The past 56,000 miles on the ST have been fantastic. But I was tired of turning around at the dirt. I had an opportunity to ride the Explorer last fall. It was a very nice bike and would fine for any basic road or dirt (with proper setup), but it won't keep up the ST on the road and for me it's just to big for the dirt. I would expect the Trophy and Explorer to put out similar heat as the ST. I chose the XC because it's motor, lightness and the fun factor.

The real question you need to ask yourself is, what kind of riding do you want to do?

If you want the size and performance of the ST but want to do a little bit of dirt, go for the Explorer.

If you want to replace your ST with a more modern/comfortable tourer, go for the Trophy.

But if you want to experience a whole different kind of riding, stick with the 800XC. So far I've got 12000 miles of smiles.


The XC is very comfortable, put a TKC80 on the front and a Heidenau K60Scout in back and it will still do 80% of what the ST will do on road plus give you a nice platform to explore some dirt.
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:29 PM   #15685
ducnut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strider.deano View Post
The real question you need to ask yourself is, what kind of riding do you want to do?

If you want the size and performance of the ST but want to do a little bit of dirt, go for the Explorer.

If you want to replace your ST with a more modern/comfortable tourer, go for the Trophy.

But if you want to experience a whole different kind of riding, stick with the 800XC. So far I've got 12000 miles of smiles.


The XC is very comfortable, put a TKC80 on the front and a Heidenau K60Scout in back and it will still do 80% of what the ST will do on road plus give you a nice platform to explore some dirt.
Agreed. Even the 800 Roadie would be a good compromise.

There's no way I'll ever buy another bike that limits me to pavement travel. There are too many dirt and gravel roads to explore.
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Old 02-03-2013, 02:34 AM   #15686
blacktiger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strider.deano View Post
ssevy,

You have quite a decision to make. Like others have stated.....ride the Trophy.

I currently have a '08 St1300 sitting next to a '11 800XC. It's not really fair to compare these two bikes. The past 56,000 miles on the ST have been fantastic. But I was tired of turning around at the dirt. I had an opportunity to ride the Explorer last fall. It was a very nice bike and would fine for any basic road or dirt (with proper setup), but it won't keep up the ST on the road and for me it's just to big for the dirt. I would expect the Trophy and Explorer to put out similar heat as the ST. I chose the XC because it's motor, lightness and the fun factor.

The real question you need to ask yourself is, what kind of riding do you want to do?

If you want the size and performance of the ST but want to do a little bit of dirt, go for the Explorer.

If you want to replace your ST with a more modern/comfortable tourer, go for the Trophy.

But if you want to experience a whole different kind of riding, stick with the 800XC. So far I've got 12000 miles of smiles.


The XC is very comfortable, put a TKC80 on the front and a Heidenau K60Scout in back and it will still do 80% of what the ST will do on road plus give you a nice platform to explore some dirt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducnut View Post
Agreed. Even the 800 Roadie would be a good compromise.

There's no way I'll ever buy another bike that limits me to pavement travel. There are too many dirt and gravel roads to explore.
I'm with these two. Get the 800XC as it opens new possibilities. Not to mention hours of fun farkling.
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Old 02-03-2013, 09:03 AM   #15687
PaulSF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducnut View Post
There's no way I'll ever buy another bike that limits me to pavement travel. There are too many dirt and gravel roads to explore.
The marketing seems to be winning as we stop believing that almost any bike can navigate along dirt and gravel fire roads just fine.

For example:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/Ne...enture-travel/
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Old 02-03-2013, 09:28 AM   #15688
Poweranger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyMyBoy View Post
Ok, so I'm a longtime rider of a comfortable and refined Gold Wing 1800 and the ST1300 from Honda.

Forgot about the Trophy and enjoy the heck out of the Tiger 800

Suggestions? Wisdom?

Thanks.
I say try something different than what you had before. I think you answered your own question with that last sentence.
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:07 AM   #15689
ducnut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulSF View Post
The marketing seems to be winning as we stop believing that almost any bike can navigate along dirt and gravel fire roads just fine.

For example:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/Ne...enture-travel/
I prefer to ride my GF's SV on dirt and gravel, as the weight distribution is lower, the bike is shorter, and it's less overall weight, in general. You can ride any lightweight bike much easier than a tall, heavy, unwieldy one (like my 1050). Wide, 17" wheels/tires are a miserable setup, for offroad. The softer and deeper the gravel or sand, the worse it gets. If you only have whatever it is you're riding, that's one thing. But, if you don't absolutely have to be restricted, then, why be?

One of these is not like the others (on a TWAT attempt).


I've tried to do what I can with this thing.

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Old 02-03-2013, 10:21 AM   #15690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyMyBoy View Post
My biggest complaint with my last bike, the Honda ST1300, was how big and heavy it was
I can't get my head around why you consider another bike (Trophy) in the same weight class as the ST1300 if that was one of your biggest complaints. Some people don't mind the weight, you obviously do, so you want lighter or not? That's the main question I'd have.
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