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Old 02-20-2013, 06:49 AM   #15931
lmychajluk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobPS View Post
...I think I save some fuel by riding my bike and not driving my car to the office ... but in terms of money, I'm not sure if I save any cause I had to buy riding gear, customize my bike to make it comfortable for me, those things adds up real quickly Not to mention that the price of big bikes are more expensive than the average city cars down here.
...
While it's true that you usually won't spend money on 'Driving Gear' (what, you guys don't own a pair of Piloti driving shoes?), you can spend a lot of money on customizing a car or truck just like a bike. A new set of wheels / tires on my truck cost me almost $3k. The tires themselves would've been almost $1,500, which is about what one would spend on good MC tires over the same 40k miles. The other $1,500 for the wheels would equate to some nice gear and farkles. IMO, in the end, it's probably a wash.

But, if you put on a lot of miles, gas can add up, and the more expensive gas gets, the faster it does. On the bike, 5000 miles / 45mpg = 111.1 galons of gas X $4/gal = $444 per 5k miles. In my truck, that same 5000 / 14 = 357 X 4 = $1,428. So, as I see it, that's about $1000 savings for every 5000 miles I'm driving. (That's assuming you're not just out riding for fun, which you may not do in your car.) The way I look at it, a $10k bike would pay for itself in 50k miles, but then there's the added benefits of having a fun 'toy' or 'hobby', and not just a means of transportation that is also an expense.
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:25 AM   #15932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by browneye View Post

I really don't think a bike is cheaper to run than a car except for the gas.
The most worthless thing you can spend money on is gas. Even if you come out not saving much money by using a motorcycle for your main mode of transport you are going to be wasting less money on gas. I'd rather have my money go to something more tangible. Additionally we all lose when gas consumption is high as the prices go up (and then the prices of everything goes up) so you are doing the economy a better favor by spending your money on "real" goods.
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:40 AM   #15933
abruzzi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobPS View Post
I think I save some fuel by riding my bike and not driving my car to the office ... but in terms of money, I'm not sure if I save any cause I had to buy riding gear, customize my bike to make it comfortable for me, those things adds up real quickly Not to mention that the price of big bikes are more expensive than the average city cars down here.
While this argument holds for someone who doesn't ride who is looking to buy a bike to save money, it doesn't hold as much for someone who already rides to shift their commute from their cage to their bike. Before I ever commuted on my bike, I already had a helmet, panniers, and multi-season riding gear so these were not new acquisitions.

I also agree with the other poster that in many cases other consumables are a wash. I believe the poster that brought the commuting question up said he had a 4runner. (Did I get that right?) While you can get a set of 4 car tires for $500, when you get truck tires it will easily hit $1000, my lexus (with stock tires) costs me $1600 a set. While those tires will last 40k, the $250-$300 set of bike tires will last 10k each.

Geof
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:08 AM   #15934
markbvt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulley View Post
Two questions: 800 XC

1. What grade fuel are you guys using? I'm in Ga, not high altitude.
Regular unleaded, 87 octane. No need to run mid-grade or premium in this bike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulley View Post
2. (warning dumb question ahead) Does anyone here use their Tiger 800 as an every day vehicle?
Yes, for about 9 months out of the year (I live in Vermont, so riding daily in the winter is highly impractical).

Awesome bike. You'll love it.

--mark

EDIT: Regarding tires, you can make smart choices here too to save money. For example, running a set of Full Bores (M-41 front, M-40 rear; these are very similar to Shinko 705s but I've found they last a little longer) costs you about $125 a set. The rear tire will last you around 6000 miles, maybe more. The front, easily twice that, so you only need to replace that with every other rear. So we're talking about $200 in tires every 12,000 miles or so. Probably a wash with car tires, but cheaper than truck tires.
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markbvt screwed with this post 02-20-2013 at 08:31 AM
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:43 AM   #15935
blacktiger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer View Post
Cold equals thicker oil so I would think a 5W would flow easier than a 10W at a given temp. In other words a 10W would be further from ideal viscosity in cold temps. Just my understanding.
Whilst you're right that a thinner oil will flow easier at colder temperatures, my thinking on this is that if the chamber/cylinder that pressurizes to tension the cam chain has a small exit hole, the thinner 5W oil will flow out too quick to build the required pressure, hence your rattling noise. Whereas the 10W will do the job. Same theory as damping in your forks. Thicker oil gives harder damping.
I've read that you really shouldn't use an oil that's thinner than recommended because the engine and all the clearances in it (like the plain main bearings) have been designed for a particular viscosity of oil to hold the two surfaces apart. Some cars use 0W-30 but I would let that near my Tiger.
Still it's your choice and your money so YMMV applies. Just don't moan at Triumph if your engine goes POP.
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:06 AM   #15936
lmychajluk
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In regards to oil, isn't fork oil a standard viscosity (i.e., 5W), not variable? That makes a bit of difference when comparing to motor oil.

With motor oil, both 5W-30 and 10W-30 are still a 30W oil once up to operating temp. The difference between the 5 and 10 is the cold viscosity. So, the 10W would be 'further from ideal' in cold temperatures, but only when first starting up. The 5W should provide better lubrication (because it's more viscous) at start up, but both 5W-30 and 10W-30 should be equal once up to temp. At least, that's the way I've always understood it. Am I wrong?

Link - http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

In a car I used to have, it recommended 0W-30, but I would use 5W-30 (OK as an alternative via the manufacturer) in the warmer months, and it seemed to be fine. When I'd go to the track, some guys even ran 5W-40, which they claimed help manage engine temps.
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:29 AM   #15937
swimmer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmychajluk View Post
I. Am I wrong?
.

No, you are correct. I think the previous poster is not correct in his train of thought. The viscosity difference of 5W-? and 10W-? at a relatively mild temperature of ~35F is also very small.
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:46 AM   #15938
blacktiger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmychajluk View Post
In regards to oil, isn't fork oil a standard viscosity (i.e., 5W), not variable? That makes a bit of difference when comparing to motor oil.
No, you're completely wrong. You can get anything from 2.5 to 20 weight of fork oil.
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:48 AM   #15939
fbj913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmychajluk View Post
In regards to oil, isn't fork oil a standard viscosity (i.e., 5W), not variable? That makes a bit of difference when comparing to motor oil.

With motor oil, both 5W-30 and 10W-30 are still a 30W oil once up to operating temp. The difference between the 5 and 10 is the cold viscosity. So, the 10W would be 'further from ideal' in cold temperatures, but only when first starting up. The 5W should provide better lubrication (because it's more viscous) at start up, but both 5W-30 and 10W-30 should be equal once up to temp. At least, that's the way I've always understood it. Am I wrong?

Link - http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

In a car I used to have, it recommended 0W-30, but I would use 5W-30 (OK as an alternative via the manufacturer) in the warmer months, and it seemed to be fine. When I'd go to the track, some guys even ran 5W-40, which they claimed help manage engine temps.
to me this is an old way of thinking. oils have temperature ranges these days. a good 10w-40 will work as described as long as you stick to the correct temperature ranges described by the manufacturer. i would say most synthetic oils are good into the negative temperature ranges (def F). also companies like Amsoil say right on the oil that the 10w-40 will work for a variety of different oil needs... although this may not be true for all companies and can vary between synthetic and standard. this discussion is very much less important when talking about Synthetic! just stick to what the motor or manual says. it doesn't pay to over think when it comes to oil. old habits die hard!!! especially oil habits. even when its hot outside its best to let the bike warm up before you ride it. same goes with cold temps, it will just take longer.

APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil is recommended for liquid or air-cooled 4-stroke engines. It meets SAE 80W/90, API GL-1 gear oil requirements and is recommended for transmissions on both 4- and 2-stroke motorcycles. AMSOIL MCF is recommended for Honda®, Kawasaki®, Yamaha®, Suzuki®, BMW®, Husqvarna®, Victory® and other motorcycles where 10W-40 or 20W-40 engine oils or SAE 80W/90, GL-1 gear oils are used. Not recommended where an API GL-4 or GL-5 gear oil is required.

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...otorcycle-oil/


i hate oil discussions. its way to opinionated!!!

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Old 02-20-2013, 09:49 AM   #15940
blacktiger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer View Post
No, you are correct. I think the previous poster is not correct in his train of thought. The viscosity difference of 5W-? and 10W-? at a relatively mild temperature of ~35F is also very small.
Well all I can say is good luck. After all, it's your bike making the rattling noise, not mine.
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:51 AM   #15941
some call me...tim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacktiger View Post
No, you're completely wrong. You can get anything from 2.5 to 20 weight of fork oil.
I think he meant that fork oil has a static viscosity, as opposed to changing with the temperature.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:04 AM   #15942
swimmer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacktiger View Post
Well all I can say is good luck. After all, it's your bike making the rattling noise, not mine.
Your logic just doesn't make sense. If a 5W-? oil is to thin then a 10W-? oil would be too thin a at some slightly warmer temperature.

Rotella T6 is one of the most commonly used synthetic oils by motorcyclists. Been using it for a long time including track use.

My thinking of the rattling noise was more along the lines of perhaps a valve(s) becoming out of tolerance.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:16 AM   #15943
browneye
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer View Post
The most worthless thing you can spend money on is gas. Even if you come out not saving much money by using a motorcycle for your main mode of transport you are going to be wasting less money on gas. I'd rather have my money go to something more tangible. Additionally we all lose when gas consumption is high as the prices go up (and then the prices of everything goes up) so you are doing the economy a better favor by spending your money on "real" goods.
I dunno...I buy a LOT of gas. My Winnebago gets about 7.5mpg. I calculate it's fifty cents a mile just for fuel. So a 1200 mile trip costs at least $600 for gas. OUCH! Taking the bike on the same trip costs about $100. But then I can't take my wife and three dogs, or my teenager if he decides to join us.

I have also estimated the cost of owning the RV is about $12,000 a year. I guess we all have differing priorities. I have four other cars and the 3 bikes. Seems like I spend my money 'real good'.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:22 AM   #15944
lmychajluk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by some call me...tim View Post
I think he meant that fork oil has a static viscosity, as opposed to changing with the temperature.
Yep. What he said.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:40 AM   #15945
lmychajluk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbj913 View Post
to me this is an old way of thinking. oils have temperature ranges these days. a good 10w-40 will work as described as long as you stick to the correct temperature ranges described by the manufacturer. i would say most synthetic oils are good into the negative temperature ranges (def F). also companies like Amsoil say right on the oil that the 10w-40 will work for a variety of different oil needs... although this may not be true for all companies and can vary between synthetic and standard. this discussion is very much less important when talking about Synthetic! just stick to what the motor or manual says. it doesn't pay to over think when it comes to oil. old habits die hard!!! especially oil habits. even when its hot outside its best to let the bike warm up before you ride it. same goes with cold temps, it will just take longer.

APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil is recommended for liquid or air-cooled 4-stroke engines. It meets SAE 80W/90, API GL-1 gear oil requirements and is recommended for transmissions on both 4- and 2-stroke motorcycles. AMSOIL MCF is recommended for Honda®, Kawasaki®, Yamaha®, Suzuki®, BMW®, Husqvarna®, Victory® and other motorcycles where 10W-40 or 20W-40 engine oils or SAE 80W/90, GL-1 gear oils are used. Not recommended where an API GL-4 or GL-5 gear oil is required.

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...otorcycle-oil/


i hate oil discussions. its way to opinionated!!!
But I wouldn't run it regularly in a motor that called for xW-30 weight oil, unless I had a very specific reason to, because the second value is what's important once up to temp, and where your motor spends most of its time. A 40 would be less viscous in a warm motor. Running a oil with a slightly higher cold viscosity (lower first number) just means that it flows easier when cold, but will 'thicken' as it warms.

Quote:
The viscosity will determine how easily the oil is pumped to the working components, how easily it will pass through the filter, and how quickly it will drain back to the engine. The lower the viscosity the easier all this will happen. That is why cold starts are so critical to an engine because the oil is cold, and so relatively thick.
But, the lower the viscosity, the less the load the oil can support at the bearing on the crankshaft. The higher the viscosity, the better the load it can support. Even this, however, has a trade-off, since the higher the viscosity, the more the drag at the bearing, and hence, potential power loss, or increased fuel consumption. So a compromise is chosen to minimise power loss, but maximise load support.
http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto..._explained.htm
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