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Old 07-18-2013, 03:03 PM   #17881
browneye
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Originally Posted by Randyincolo View Post
Never been on Bobs oil web site. Interesting you mention Delo 400 is not a suitable oil yet you recommend syn oils that are 5-40 and yet Triumph states you need 10-40 or 10-50. A minor point for sure. But then you say you would use Delo in some motorcycles but not the Tiger.

One thing I learned with motorcycles is when you change the oil they are always easier to shift for about the first 400-600 miles. I am 60 years old and still waiting for someone to tell me they have suffered an engine failure due to the brand of oil they were using.

Hmmm...I'm just 4 years behind you.

Of course they're not. Or they'll blame it on something else. Fried clutches, drag or slip, knotchy shifting, premature wear on engine internals, oil consumption, carboned piston domes and ring grooves - there are all kinds of things that can take place. The assumption that since you haven't directly heard of engine failure does not mean there are not differences in various brands and grades of oils.

Newer engines run tighter clearances than older designs, plus Triumph's recommendation to run a full syn in these motors, is why I said that while Delo 400 is a good oil (diesel rated) but not what I would run in these motors. It's also not what I would run in any of my motorcycles once they are broke in and the rings are seated. A lot of guys do - that's fine with me, doesn't mean I'm going to agree with it.

There are many advantages of a full synthetic, we don't need to go into all of them here. Using a a lower grade of oil is not going to blow up your motor. But if you run it long enough it will degrade to the point that it is no longer protecting your engine. There is also a much greater safety margin in the case of cooling or oil pressure failure with a synthetic, kind of a side benefit. A direct benefit is that a full syn is more shear stable than a dino oil, hence more viscosity stability and more stable from heat cycling - less volitility. In otherwords, it is more resistant to burn off or break down giving a longer useful life. If you're changing more often it's kind of moot. Personally, I still like the extra protection margin a full syn offers.

As far as viscosity rating, the first number is for cold temp - a slightly lighter oil at cold is no disadvantage. However more conventional oils tend to shear more quickly with a greater spread between cold and hot rating and consequently you will see this recommendation for a 10-40 rather than a 5-40 or a 0-30. Many of the lighter grades of automotive oils have higher friction modifier content which makes them less compatible with a wet clutch. Hence the recommendation for the 10-40. Most smaller motorcycle engines have 10-60 or 20-50 recommendations. Smaller sump capacity, higher revving, more heat. The triple has many design benefits, one being large sump capacity.

Anyway, this isn't an oil thread, and everybody seems to be an expert about this, so I'm ready to move on. There are plenty of online resources to research if you all want to learn more about lubricants.
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Old 07-18-2013, 03:21 PM   #17882
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Decided to stay with the OEM filters, $46 shipped on Ebay for a 3 pack. I just moved to Colorado and not sure how much riding I'll do compared to my old home of Alaska but am estimating maybe 3,000 - 4,000 miles on each bike over the course of a year. One filter a year is peanuts not to stay with OEM.

Shell Rotella Synthetic 5w-40 ???? Might give it a go if Wal Mart has it in stock. Reason being it is a heck of a lot hotter here in Colorado than Alaska. I been using Mobil 1 in my cars and trucks since the late 1970's and been pretty happy with it.
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Old 07-18-2013, 04:08 PM   #17883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randyincolo View Post
Decided to stay with the OEM filters, $46 shipped on Ebay for a 3 pack. I just moved to Colorado and not sure how much riding I'll do compared to my old home of Alaska but am estimating maybe 3,000 - 4,000 miles on each bike over the course of a year. One filter a year is peanuts not to stay with OEM.

Shell Rotella Synthetic 5w-40 ???? Might give it a go if Wal Mart has it in stock. Reason being it is a heck of a lot hotter here in Colorado than Alaska. I been using Mobil 1 in my cars and trucks since the late 1970's and been pretty happy with it.
The Rotella Synthetic is rated Jaso MA so is OK to use in your bike.
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Old 07-18-2013, 04:37 PM   #17884
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Changed my mind, think I'll try the Rotella T6.

How do you guys like it?
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Old 07-18-2013, 04:39 PM   #17885
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Originally Posted by Randyincolo View Post
Changed my mind, think I'll try the Rotella T6.

How do you guys like it?

I'm not using it now but have put a lot of miles on other bikes while using it including a track bike. It's pretty popular with the track bike crowd as it's a synthetic oil that's pretty cheap and most track guys change their oil pretty frequently.
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Old 07-18-2013, 04:45 PM   #17886
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Originally Posted by Randyincolo View Post
Changed my mind, think I'll try the Rotella T6.

How do you guys like it?
I'm not really sure what there is to like, or dislike, about one specific motor oil over another.

I guess I like that it's inexpensive and readily available at Wally World and meets the manufacturer's requirements of SH or higher and JASO MA.

Like swimmer, I use it in my race bike as well. And my other street bike. And my dirt bike.
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Old 07-18-2013, 04:50 PM   #17887
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Was doing some curiosity reading and ran across this from a honda owner in Atlanta. Unsolicited, off the wall, don't even know which honda he has:

Switched bike from Rotella t6 to Amsoil
Changed oil in bike today @ 2200 miles and took sample for an oil analysis, however.... i doubt i'm even going to waste the money to compare the two because switching to amsoil was an instant and obvious difference. Previously used rotella t6 since it's a cheap synthetic that tests well and is highly regarded with cycles, plus..... it's a honda, you can fill a honda with old fish grease and it'll be ok.

@ 2200 miles on an oil change, 75% highway and in a less than two month time span, the rotella was black as coal. Not surprised by that, you're not suppose to get long intervals on rotella, it wore out when it was suppose to wear out. The rotella performed within expectations, bike ran good, stayed right at temperature, and had a small amount of shifter clunk, mostly on down shifting. It was nothing beyond the realm of expectation though.

Switched to Amsoil yesterday and didnt really ride the bike until today. About 10 minutes from my house, my reaction was "omg". The difference is night and day. Everything smoother, idles better, low rpm is better, shifting is silent and silky smooth. unbelievable difference. Especially since the change was from a good oil to begin with. Even as someone who already recognizes that oils are not created equal, i didnt expect this dramatic of a difference between oils. Based on the clutch benefit alone, i'm gonna stick with amsoil. The rotella was "good enough", but amsoil difference is amazing.


I can tell you that mine shifted smoother after my last oil change. Will see what it's like after this thousand mile trip coming up over the weekend.

Back when GasGas came out with the new EC series enduros, they had bushings in the shift shafts and amsoil was about the only oil that wouldn't drag or slip and shifted the smoothest. That was back 15 years ago.

The oil wars rage on.

EDIT: BTW, seems like T6 is about $30 a gal at WM. Amsoil is $35 but I have to pay shipping so it ends up being a little more. Both are cheaper than many of the MC specific oils.
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Old 07-18-2013, 05:10 PM   #17888
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T6 it is. If Wally World doesn't have it Amazon does:).
Thanks for the input.
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Old 07-18-2013, 07:52 PM   #17889
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I used T6 and Amsoil in my Suzuki SV1000. Liked the T6. LOVED the Amsoil. As noted above, smoooooooth shifting. Like buttah.
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Old 07-19-2013, 01:43 AM   #17890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randyincolo View Post
Never been on Bobs oil web site. Interesting you mention Delo 400 is not a suitable oil yet you recommend syn oils that are 5-40 and yet Triumph states you need 10-40 or 10-50. A minor point for sure. But then you say you would use Delo in some motorcycles but not the Tiger.

One thing I learned with motorcycles is when you change the oil they are always easier to shift for about the first 400-600 miles. I am 60 years old and still waiting for someone to tell me they have suffered an engine failure due to the brand of oil they were using.
Delo 400 is primarily a diesel oil first and for gas motors second. You will see this when looking at its API rating; C ratings precede the S ratings. C is diesel specifications, S for gas.

Look at Amsoil or any other oil made for gas motors and you will see the reverse; S ratings first, C second. If you doubt this, search out the Amsoil or any other diesel specific oils and you will find their C ratings first.

The first letter class is what type of fuel engine the oil is primarily formulated for. It may work for both but not the best choice in some cases. This is part of the purpose of the API rating system.

My thoughts on the early changing though. Oil has a detergent package for a purpose; to clean. By changing oil too frequently, the detergents don't get an opportunity to keep working. Dirty oil is not a bad thing (to be clear, I don't mean black sludge) but it means your detergents are working and cleaning your engine. In addition to that, let's think environmentally. Every oil change done when it doesn't need to be just introduces a few extra quarts of oil for disposal. Yes, we should be recycling but is it really necessary?

FWIW and I realise it may not be much.

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Old 07-19-2013, 05:54 AM   #17891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilot3 View Post
Delo 400 is primarily a diesel oil first and for gas motors second. You will see this when looking at its API rating; C ratings precede the S ratings. C is diesel specifications, S for gas.

Look at Amsoil or any other oil made for gas motors and you will see the reverse; S ratings first, C second. If you doubt this, search out the Amsoil or any other diesel specific oils and you will find their C ratings first.

The first letter class is what type of fuel engine the oil is primarily formulated for. It may work for both but not the best choice in some cases. This is part of the purpose of the API rating system.

My thoughts on the early changing though. Oil has a detergent package for a purpose; to clean. By changing oil too frequently, the detergents don't get an opportunity to keep working. Dirty oil is not a bad thing (to be clear, I don't mean black sludge) but it means your detergents are working and cleaning your engine. In addition to that, let's think environmentally. Every oil change done when it doesn't need to be just introduces a few extra quarts of oil for disposal. Yes, we should be recycling but is it really necessary?

FWIW and I realise it may not be much.
Not too much at all...
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Old 07-19-2013, 06:31 AM   #17892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilot3 View Post
Delo 400 is primarily a diesel oil first and for gas motors second. You will see this when looking at its API rating; C ratings precede the S ratings. C is diesel specifications, S for gas.

Look at Amsoil or any other oil made for gas motors and you will see the reverse; S ratings first, C second. If you doubt this, search out the Amsoil or any other diesel specific oils and you will find their C ratings first.

The first letter class is what type of fuel engine the oil is primarily formulated for. It may work for both but not the best choice in some cases. This is part of the purpose of the API rating system.

My thoughts on the early changing though. Oil has a detergent package for a purpose; to clean. By changing oil too frequently, the detergents don't get an opportunity to keep working. Dirty oil is not a bad thing (to be clear, I don't mean black sludge) but it means your detergents are working and cleaning your engine. In addition to that, let's think environmentally. Every oil change done when it doesn't need to be just introduces a few extra quarts of oil for disposal. Yes, we should be recycling but is it really necessary?

FWIW and I realise it may not be much.
Wow. An oil discussion that actually echoes with sense and reliable information. I never thought I would see it. Kind of like a snipe; you know they exist...
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Old 07-19-2013, 06:58 AM   #17893
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I by the recommended oil, Castrol, on amazon for a little over $7 a quart. Bought by the case, 2 cases = 3 oil changes. About $30 dollars plus a filter.
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:14 AM   #17894
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Originally Posted by browneye View Post
Was doing some curiosity reading and ran across this from a honda owner in Atlanta. Unsolicited, off the wall, don't even know which honda he has:

Switched bike from Rotella t6 to Amsoil
Changed oil in bike today @ 2200 miles and took sample for an oil analysis, however.... i doubt i'm even going to waste the money to compare the two because switching to amsoil was an instant and obvious difference. Previously used rotella t6 since it's a cheap synthetic that tests well and is highly regarded with cycles, plus..... it's a honda, you can fill a honda with old fish grease and it'll be ok.

@ 2200 miles on an oil change, 75% highway and in a less than two month time span, the rotella was black as coal. Not surprised by that, you're not suppose to get long intervals on rotella, it wore out when it was suppose to wear out. The rotella performed within expectations, bike ran good, stayed right at temperature, and had a small amount of shifter clunk, mostly on down shifting. It was nothing beyond the realm of expectation though.

Switched to Amsoil yesterday and didnt really ride the bike until today. About 10 minutes from my house, my reaction was "omg". The difference is night and day. Everything smoother, idles better, low rpm is better, shifting is silent and silky smooth. unbelievable difference. Especially since the change was from a good oil to begin with. Even as someone who already recognizes that oils are not created equal, i didnt expect this dramatic of a difference between oils. Based on the clutch benefit alone, i'm gonna stick with amsoil. The rotella was "good enough", but amsoil difference is amazing.


I can tell you that mine shifted smoother after my last oil change. Will see what it's like after this thousand mile trip coming up over the weekend.

Back when GasGas came out with the new EC series enduros, they had bushings in the shift shafts and amsoil was about the only oil that wouldn't drag or slip and shifted the smoothest. That was back 15 years ago.

The oil wars rage on.

EDIT: BTW, seems like T6 is about $30 a gal at WM. Amsoil is $35 but I have to pay shipping so it ends up being a little more. Both are cheaper than many of the MC specific oils.
Check for local distributors Chris, I found multiple people around town that will honor that price, you just pick it up.
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:27 AM   #17895
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Originally Posted by browneye View Post
EDIT: BTW, seems like T6 is about $30 a gal at WM. Amsoil is $35 but I have to pay shipping so it ends up being a little more. Both are cheaper than many of the MC specific oils.
I picked up three gallons of T6 last night at Wal Mart. It cost $21 and change a gallon so grabbed three jugs.
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