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Old 09-12-2013, 11:08 AM   #18361
cug
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cory1848 View Post
This is what I have done.
As I said about a hundred times - you're not "fixing" wrong damping with different springs or different oil. You're just changing it slightly. My Tiger was solid after I put in proper suspension front and rear. And just changing springs doesn't do much for that ...

But again, you bought a bike with a budget suspension, sorry, but that's exactly what the Tiger has. Triumph isn't going to fix this properly. They might fix it down the road on newer bikes, but with all the trouble you went through, all the hassle, all the time and money spent, it would have been much more useful to get proper suspension right away and be done with it and then you'd have been happy with the bike.

With AK-20 front, and TR-119 rear it was the bike with the best and most comfortable and sorted suspension I ever had.
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Old 09-12-2013, 06:44 PM   #18362
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Originally Posted by cug View Post
As I said about a hundred times - you're not "fixing" wrong damping with different springs or different oil. You're just changing it slightly. My Tiger was solid after I put in proper suspension front and rear. And just changing springs doesn't do much for that ...

But again, you bought a bike with a budget suspension, sorry, but that's exactly what the Tiger has. Triumph isn't going to fix this properly. They might fix it down the road on newer bikes, but with all the trouble you went through, all the hassle, all the time and money spent, it would have been much more useful to get proper suspension right away and be done with it and then you'd have been happy with the bike.

With AK-20 front, and TR-119 rear it was the bike with the best and most comfortable and sorted suspension I ever had.
But do we know it is in fact wrong damping causing the issue? Budget suspension should still work without their being a safety concern. That is my gripe. I have had a number of bikes with shit suspension but this is the first time I have ever experienced a bounce like this.

Right now, it is more time and aggravation than money spent. The AK-20 kit is a last resort and I would rather not spend the money on it honestly but it may just come down to that. I would be more aggravated if it was discovered that a $20 fix cured this down the road after I spent $1300. I have moved passed the pissed off stage and now I am just trying to make it work as it should. I just have to keep the bike above 50mph and its good.
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Old 09-12-2013, 07:24 PM   #18363
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Originally Posted by browneye View Post
Rode the bike to work today...noticed no hands at about 35-40 the bars wobble pretty good, but not when gripped. So I still have something going on up there. Don't notice bumpity bump though. It's pretty smooth all the way to 90.

I have a hunch these bikes aren't being setup right when the front wheel is installed. Forks and axle are not being properly aligned.
Lots of bike through history have done this. Different tires, springs, valving, riders, loading, etc. may make it better or worse, but there's always one simple solution that cures it:

Don't let go of the bars.

Early FJRs with Avons are a notorious combination Owners fussed and fumed and checked, re-checked, and re-rechecked, tire pressures, wheel balance, steering stem tension. Different tires reduced the problem. Later models ('06-on, "Gen II") with a slightly longer swingarm are less sensitive.

If you think the Tiger 800 is bad, go read up on the Honda ST1300, a bike that probably should have never made it to production.

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Old 09-12-2013, 07:39 PM   #18364
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Well bought a new 12 800xc today! Loving it and can't wait to get past the ole break in period! Looking for the top farkles to do first!
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Old 09-12-2013, 07:45 PM   #18365
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Originally Posted by cory1848 View Post
But do we know it is in fact wrong damping causing the issue? Budget suspension should still work without their being a safety concern.
I don't think there is any safety concern even with the bumpy suspension. My forks also had quite some stiction, new fork seals when putting in the AK-20 cured that one, too.

For my bike, my weight, my riding, the bouncing was solved about 80% by swapping out the crappy front suspension and the rest was covered by replacing the even more crappy rear suspension. By the way: when I got the bike I didn't think the suspension was that bad. But when I looked back after having the Traxxion/Öhlins combo installed - it wasn't a question anymore.
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Old 09-12-2013, 08:00 PM   #18366
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Originally Posted by cug
For my bike, my weight, my riding, the bouncing was solved about 80% by swapping out the crappy front suspension and the rest was covered by replacing the even more crappy rear suspension. By the way: when I got the bike I didn't think the suspension was that bad. But when I looked back after having the Traxxion/Öhlins combo installed - it wasn't a question anymore.
There is no gain for Triumph or anyone else to put "higher end" suspension on a bike sold to the masses. (This excludes high end bikes that they can expect to be pressed into race service, and includes some of them). There's no suspension out there that will meet the needs of everyone. They put in enough to do the job at the price point targeted.

Personally, in my fantasy world, bikes would be delivered with an option to return the OEM suspension for a credit towards upgrading the suspension before delivery, trading the stock shock, spriings, whatever, for upgrades of their choice, paying the difference up front.

So I'd show up, plop down a deposit on a bike with a Penske rear shock and cartridge emulators up front, sprung for my weight and an aggressive street riding style; a week later go back, have a trained employee help me determine 'zero' settings for the suspension, write them down, and show me on my way.

And you know what? I'd guess 90% of riders wouldn't take advantage of the service and potential savings. They would continue to bitch about how crappy the stock suspension was on the internet, though.
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Old 09-12-2013, 08:18 PM   #18367
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Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
There is no gain for Triumph or anyone else to put "higher end" suspension on a bike sold to the masses. (This excludes high end bikes that they can expect to be pressed into race service, and includes some of them). There's no suspension out there that will meet the needs of everyone. They put in enough to do the job at the price point targeted.

Personally, in my fantasy world, bikes would be delivered with an option to return the OEM suspension for a credit towards upgrading the suspension before delivery, trading the stock shock, spriings, whatever, for upgrades of their choice, paying the difference up front.

So I'd show up, plop down a deposit on a bike with a Penske rear shock and cartridge emulators up front, sprung for my weight and an aggressive street riding style; a week later go back, have a trained employee help me determine 'zero' settings for the suspension, write them down, and show me on my way.

And you know what? I'd guess 90% of riders wouldn't take advantage of the service and potential savings. They would continue to bitch about how crappy the stock suspension was on the internet, though.
Triumph already do that, with the Street Triple and Street Triple R, same for Speed Triple and Daytona I believe. They just need to offer a Tiger R. My wife loves her Street Triple R and says she'll never sell it, has never complained about the suspension either and all I did was back things off a few clicks as per the manual for her weight. She does know what crap suspension feels like and HAS complained about the suspension on her DR.

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Old 09-12-2013, 08:27 PM   #18368
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There is no gain for Triumph or anyone else to put "higher end" suspension on a bike sold to the masses.
I would have bought a Tiger 800 R without a second thought. Triumph does, what pretty much every manufacturer does: try to get away with as little as possible for as much money as possible. That's business. Unfortunately, the adventure bike market has more people that are willing to accept cheap components than other categories.
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:30 PM   #18369
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Originally Posted by cory1848 View Post
But do we know it is in fact wrong damping causing the issue? Budget suspension should still work without their being a safety concern. That is my gripe. I have had a number of bikes with shit suspension but this is the first time I have ever experienced a bounce like this.

Right now, it is more time and aggravation than money spent. The AK-20 kit is a last resort and I would rather not spend the money on it honestly but it may just come down to that. I would be more aggravated if it was discovered that a $20 fix cured this down the road after I spent $1300. I have moved passed the pissed off stage and now I am just trying to make it work as it should. I just have to keep the bike above 50mph and its good.
I just finished a RaceTech upgrade to my Roadie forks and went TR-119 in the rear. There is no question in my mind that the stock forks have too much compression and minimal damping. Not balanced at all. I posted the rebuild.

I only had some slight bouncing before and it is completely smooth now. I attribute it to more controlled compression and damping that works. I can't weigh in on everyone else's experiences but I cannot stress enough how important it is to align the forks. It makes wear differences within the fork if they are not aligned.
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Old 09-13-2013, 12:22 AM   #18370
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Originally Posted by jtmajors View Post
Well bought a new 12 800xc today! Loving it and can't wait to get past the ole break in period! Looking for the top farkles to do first!
Welcome to the mad house.
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Old 09-13-2013, 05:08 AM   #18371
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Originally Posted by jtmajors View Post
Well bought a new 12 800xc today! Loving it and can't wait to get past the ole break in period! Looking for the top farkles to do first!
Awesome! We can help you with all your farkling needs.

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=704559

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=840096

Step 1: CRASH BARS! Non-OEM. 2-piece or tall ones like Holan or Happy Trails.

http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...ger+crash+bars

Step 2: Tires!

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=908758

Step 3: Proper hand guards (Acerbis or Barkbusters)

Step 4: ???
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Old 09-13-2013, 06:08 AM   #18372
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Originally Posted by cug View Post
Unfortunately, the adventure bike market has more people that are willing to accept cheap components than other categories.
Nah, that's the cruiser market.

We just wank about it more.
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Old 09-13-2013, 06:13 AM   #18373
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Originally Posted by pilot3 View Post
I just finished a RaceTech upgrade to my Roadie forks and went TR-119 in the rear. There is no question in my mind that the stock forks have too much compression and minimal damping. Not balanced at all. I posted the rebuild.

I only had some slight bouncing before and it is completely smooth now. I attribute it to more controlled compression and damping that works. I can't weigh in on everyone else's experiences but I cannot stress enough how important it is to align the forks. It makes wear differences within the fork if they are not aligned.
I read that write up, very good. Appreciate you taking the time to do all that. I have never taken suspension apart to that extent before so I am really nervous about screwing something up and having it cost a lot more than it should. I am also thinking that if I am going to do something this major, then I would want the comp and rebound adjustment options. I thought Racetech had a drop in option for that, but I haven't seen it for the XC.
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Old 09-13-2013, 06:17 AM   #18374
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Originally Posted by cory1848 View Post
I read that write up, very good. Appreciate you taking the time to do all that. I have never taken suspension apart to that extent before so I am really nervous about screwing something up and having it cost a lot more than it should. I am also thinking that if I am going to do something this major, then I would want the comp and rebound adjustment options. I thought Racetech had a drop in option for that, but I haven't seen it for the XC.
Contact Terry at Race Tech, he'll set you straight.
Talked to him for about 20 minutes on Monday to help me figure out what I really wanted
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Old 09-13-2013, 06:29 AM   #18375
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Contact Terry at Race Tech, he'll set you straight.
Talked to him for about 20 minutes on Monday to help me figure out what I really wanted
I agree, I'd really want to add adjustability to a rebuild/upgrade. Very jealous of KTM. I forgot the Inmate that had the 990 ADV at the Dam that time, but he had two big ol adjuster knobs up at the top crown for adjustment.
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