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Old 02-26-2011, 04:21 PM   #3691
Lion BR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markbvt View Post
Everyone discussing the XC's steep rake should read this article before jumping to any conclusions. Tony Foale, for those who are unaware, is an expert in the physics of motorcycle design and wrote a seminal textbook on the matter.
http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/RakeEx/RakeEx.htm

--mark
Thank you Mark for making sure we are not talking out of hot air here. Yes, I've read articles about rake and other geometry items before I ventured making comments about it here. This article you point is one of the few (only one for me) that goes against the grain, of what has been conventional wisdom. And his modifications to achieve the configuration could actually get someone to question the results.

Newer articles also point out that other variables in geometry, besides rake, influence steering responsiveness. There are mentions of geometry and suspension designs have come a long way to offer better handling characteristics to a bike, overcoming some of the limitations of the basic variables to a certain extent. Which is also what the Baja rider has mentioned, as well as others here, that other elements of design point that this bike seems to be allright.

My concern actually comes not from the articles I've read, or from the specs, and what has been conventional wisdom. Actually it probably is more than conventional wisdom, as, for what it is worth, the state of ND has a legislation where minimum rake for motorcycles is 20 degrees. And one can easily doubt they enforce it.

My concern comes from a Triumph engineer's answer to a question regarding installing a 19in wheel on the XC. His answer (I'm paraphrasing here - and you can find this information some many pages back on this long thread): I would not recommend doing this, this bike already has a steep rake as is [with the 21in wheel]. So I actually calculated what the 19 inch wheel would translate in terms of rake for this bike, and if memory serves me right, it would turn it into a 21.9 degree of rake.

That's the only reason why I bring this up. As a matter of fact, I had ignored that spec until that bit of information appeared.

Anyway, I haven't heard anyone complaining about it so far. So it all seems good. And the best thing one can do is to test the bike he/she will buy. Because everyone's experience, perspective and desire differs.

And thanks also for your on the seat view of the bike in Montreal. Although I think orange is the choice, you are not the first one to say the white bike actually looks good.

Lion
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Lion BR screwed with this post 02-26-2011 at 04:31 PM
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Old 02-26-2011, 04:35 PM   #3692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion BR View Post
My concern comes from a Triumph engineer's answer to a question regarding installing a 19in wheel on the XC. His answer (I'm paraphrasing here - and you can find this information some many pages back on this long thread): I would not recommend doing this, this bike already has a steep rake as is [with the 21in wheel]. So I actually calculated what the 19 inch wheel would translate in terms of rake for this bike, and if memory serves me right, it would turn it into a 21.9 degree of rake.

Yeah, I remember seeing that same comment. It concerned me a bit too.

But the thing to keep in mind is that the guy's a Triumph employee. Of course he's going to say that the bike shouldn't be modified in this way, for the same reason that Triumph says that any bike with accessories fitted shouldn't be ridden faster than 80mph or whatever. It's about limiting liability. They've designed and tested the bike in a certain way, and someone messing with that geometry makes the situation too murky. If he crashes and tries to sue Triumph, he'll probably lose if they've said on the record, "Don't do that." But if they've said, "Sure, go ahead, give it a try," the guy will have a case and might win. So for this reason alone, you'll always hear a Triumph engineer warning against these types of modifications.

--mark
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Old 02-26-2011, 04:58 PM   #3693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markbvt View Post
Yeah, I remember seeing that same comment. It concerned me a bit too.

But the thing to keep in mind is that the guy's a Triumph employee. Of course he's going to say that the bike shouldn't be modified in this way, for the same reason that Triumph says that any bike with accessories fitted shouldn't be ridden faster than 80mph or whatever. It's about limiting liability. They've designed and tested the bike in a certain way, and someone messing with that geometry makes the situation too murky. If he crashes and tries to sue Triumph, he'll probably lose if they've said on the record, "Don't do that." But if they've said, "Sure, go ahead, give it a try," the guy will have a case and might win. So for this reason alone, you'll always hear a Triumph engineer warning against these types of modifications.

--mark
Good point.
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Old 02-26-2011, 05:05 PM   #3694
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I took a few closeup pics of the cockpit and left side luggage mounting points for my own reference (for thinking about where to mount stuff like accessory switches, a second power socket, and something to keep soft luggage from swinging underneath the subframe on the left side). Here they are, in case anyone's interested.







--mark
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Old 02-26-2011, 05:24 PM   #3695
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Thank you for the pics. I really love my weestrom its a great bike but like you I have never liked the huge front fairing limiting my visibility and making it feel like I'm riding an elephant or something. Coming from an off road background I like to be able to see my front wheel. Looks like they kept the XC simple. The more I read the more I like.
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Old 02-26-2011, 05:28 PM   #3696
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Mark, did you notice what tires were on the Tiger XC you sat on? I plan on putting K60 Scouts on when they become available, but until then? Ken

(Was going to swap out before taking delivery, but near as I can tell, the 150 rear is not ready yet, anyone know more? Heidenau K60 Scout 150/70-17. I'm thinking having the stock tires to put on for longer pavement trips will be smoother and save the Scouts for everything else. Ken)

And great pics, by the way! Thanks!
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Old 02-26-2011, 07:14 PM   #3697
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The critical thing Tony Foale, someone I greatly admire, did, is keep trail constant.

Through a 19" wheel on your XC and you've changed rake and trail, and will change your handling, stability and weave modes. Dangerous? I dunno, but it obviously isn't recommended.
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Old 02-26-2011, 07:46 PM   #3698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducken View Post
Mark, did you notice what tires were on the Tiger XC you sat on? I plan on putting K60 Scouts on when they become available, but until then?

Stock tires are Bridgestone Battlewings. I run those on my Wee-Strom when doing long pavement trips and like them a lot for that purpose.

I was also thinking about using a rear K60 Scout with a front TKC-80 for a little more off-pavement grip as my standard combination. I'll probably start with the front TKC and a rear Shinko 705 though, simply because the Shinkos are widely available.

--mark
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Old 02-26-2011, 09:12 PM   #3699
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Originally Posted by LoriKTM View Post
Yep, placed the order with PJ's.
Way to go Lori!

PJ's is going to sell a bunch of this bike (if they can get them).
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Old 02-27-2011, 03:25 AM   #3700
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My local dealer has 6 - all sold - waiting for the new registration on Tuesday.
Popular bike.
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Old 02-27-2011, 03:36 AM   #3701
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Way to go Lori!

PJ's is going to sell a bunch of this bike (if they can get them).
He certainly thinks he is when I talk to him! :)
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Old 02-27-2011, 05:02 AM   #3702
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Triumph a no show at the Greenville Show - I think this is a big mistake both for the Triumph and the show. They need to make these Mfgs commit to the entire schedule or not at all. The new Tenere was there and looked great.

Worries me that Triumph either doesn't have the interest or the money to attend.

I'm going to wait on the Husky 900 - for all you that claim the Triumph isn't dirty enough for you or doesn't have the quality suspension and components - the Husky 900 may be the route for you!
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Old 02-27-2011, 06:52 AM   #3703
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The Triumph demo truck is in Orlando Florida this week, Daytona (bike week) next week. Motorcycle activity is very active down here this time of year. Lots of folks down from the frozen north out riding around.

It does seem they should have made a effort, maybe with a local dealer to attend other shows and show off their new offering though.
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Old 02-27-2011, 07:54 AM   #3704
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He certainly thinks he is when I talk to him! :)
I think they sold 12 already.

Jonsey was the top Triumph salesman in all of North Americas last year.
Pretty amazing that they can sell a ton of bikes, yet it is the only bike shop in town that still feels like a bike shop. Cool guys!
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:45 AM   #3705
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Originally Posted by Steinbuck View Post
If you want radical, look at the Buell Ulysses numbers...I've ridden that thing with 17" street tires in over 300 miles of soft stuff. As I mentioned in the Triumph posts, when the whole machine is more competent then you don't have to compensate for a "shortcoming".

I intentionally stayed away from all reviews and spec sheets before riding the bike. I wanted to judge it based upon its performance. The reason my info is so upbeat is because I was ready to be disappointed by a poseur bike and was instead impressed. People look at numbers and forecast "real world"; I rode it in the real world and came back happy.
Truly this is all I need to hear ......

Oh, and as other have said, thank you for the real world report!

G.
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