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Old 05-12-2011, 08:02 AM   #5551
Boon Booni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdx View Post
Anyone like to weigh in???
Demo One
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Old 05-12-2011, 08:15 AM   #5552
andoulli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Booni View Post
Demo One
Yeah, that question is really hard to answer in a way that would be accurate and satisfy you. We can't really know what your expectations are for low end torque. Anyway, I agree, Demo one.
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Old 05-12-2011, 08:27 AM   #5553
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Originally Posted by andoulli View Post
Heck yeah you can buy me a beer.
PM me roughly where you're at and I'll definitely give you a shout.

My plan is to head northward as I break in the bike. Haven't decided if I'll get the 500 mile service back in NOLA or head towards another dealer, perhaps MS. Either way my route and plans are totally unmade at this point. Just the way I like it.
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Old 05-12-2011, 10:02 AM   #5554
AK Oldman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdx View Post
...I like taking jeep and atv trails and passes in the mountains. Some of which can get kind of hairy. I am willing to sacrifice some "highway" comfort for better trail performance. I have been looking seriously at the 800XC, but am concerned about what I hear is a lack of low end grunt. ...
The BMW only has 4 lb ft more of max torque and it hits max 2,000 rpm lower. I don't know where it comes on for either bike. As the others have said, give one a test ride. If nothing else, if you know in advance you will be headed into the hard trails you could always change your counter shaft sprocket. One tooth can make a good difference.
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Old 05-12-2011, 10:28 AM   #5555
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Old 05-12-2011, 11:16 AM   #5556
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Fuel questions

Are the two bars across the filler hole a standard feature on the 800 XC? Other than posing a nuisance, what is their purpose? Has anybody had any problems running 89 octane (US) fuel? The service manager told me I should run premium (91 octane here), but the manual says 87 octane is adequate. I don't want to spend unnecessarily, nor do I want to crater an engine prematurely.
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Old 05-12-2011, 11:20 AM   #5557
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The manual says 87 so use 87. It won't hurt anything. Triumph knows what they designed the bike to run on better than the service manager at your dealer does.

I suspect the bars are there to keep you from jamming the pump nozzle into the fuel pump housing which appears to be just below the bars.
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Old 05-12-2011, 11:50 AM   #5558
Evomx971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdx View Post
I would like to pose a question to those with experience on these bikes. I am not a serious "off road" rider. I do not do single track but I like taking jeep and atv trails and passes in the mountains. Some of which can get kind of hairy. I am willing to sacrifice some "highway" comfort for better trail performance. I have been looking seriously at the 800XC, but am concerned about what I hear is a lack of low end grunt. When turning one of these heavy, highly geared bikes up a rocky switchback, it is nice to be able to roll the throttle on from idle and climb out. I test drove the F800GS and it "seems" to have that kind of power.

I really like the F800GS but my current beemer has been nothing but trouble and was extremely unhappy with customer service I got. So I don't really want to buy another bmer but will if the Tiger has a serious lack of low end torque. BTW: the KTM Adventure is not an option for me. I rode my buddies and it felt like a monster in comparison to the bmer.

Anyone like to weigh in???
I'll throw out my opinion. I want my XC for exactly the same type of roads you mention but admit I have not had it off road much yet. Just some gravel and have played around on my pitbike mx track. It would be really hard to judge the off-road capability on a street demo. Hopefully more folks will start getting their 800XC's off road and give some detailed impressions, myself included. I do ride/race a lot of single track (but not on the 800XC!). I do think I'll miss some right off idle torque with the XC that a guy probably gets with the 800GS or a thumper. If it's gnarly, I know I'll need to use the clutch. No biggy, my main woods race bike is a 125. The 6 speed trans on the XC is a really sweet box, but if I was the engineer... 1st would be lower (which would tremendously help with rock crawling) and 6th would be just a tick taller. It's a really close ratio box IMHO. In the last month I spent a week riding my KTM in Moab and I think the Tiger could have done about 70% of what we rode out there. I was also on the Broken Arrow jeep trail in Sedona, AZ and really thought I could do everything we were on on the 800XC. All with knobblier tires of course. If I knew I was going to spend a high percentage off road for a trip, I'd think about trying to find a rear sprocket with 2-3 more teeth to get 1st to be a bit lower. A group of us are planning to ride the Trans Wis Adv Trail (TWAT) this summer and I'll probably do it on the 800XC so my buddy can ride my XR-L.
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Old 05-12-2011, 11:54 AM   #5559
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdx View Post
I would like to pose a question to those with experience on these bikes. I am not a serious "off road" rider. I do not do single track but I like taking jeep and atv trails and passes in the mountains. Some of which can get kind of hairy. I am willing to sacrifice some "highway" comfort for better trail performance. I have been looking seriously at the 800XC, but am concerned about what I hear is a lack of low end grunt. When turning one of these heavy, highly geared bikes up a rocky switchback, it is nice to be able to roll the throttle on from idle and climb out. I test drove the F800GS and it "seems" to have that kind of power.

I really like the F800GS but my current beemer has been nothing but trouble and was extremely unhappy with customer service I got. So I don't really want to buy another bmer but will if the Tiger has a serious lack of low end torque. BTW: the KTM Adventure is not an option for me. I rode my buddies and it felt like a monster in comparison to the bmer.

Anyone like to weigh in???
Don't think you'll have to sacrifice much ... but keep in mind the 800XC will not be as nimble or able off road as your X Challenge. Probably 100 lb. weight difference.

On steep, loose switch backs the key is momentum. (you've probably already figured this out ) But if you were starting on a steep, loose up hill the F800GS will have more torque right off idle .... but guess what that means? More Wheel Spin.

The Triple requires more revs and a bit more clutch slipping, but will actually spin the wheel LESS then a high torque twin. This is a good thing.

Once moving just 5 or 10 mph, you'll be fine on either bike. But neither one will launch as elegantly as your X Challenge off a dead stop start ... but hey ... different bikes! You won't know how this will work on a demo test ride but you can probably get a good sense of how the Tiger feels in general.

I think getting more off road experience will get you there. That is really key ... no matter the bike. Getting to know the bike, it's weight and balance and getting confident makes all the difference, IMHO.
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Old 05-12-2011, 12:12 PM   #5560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
On steep, loose switch backs the key is momentum. (you've probably already figured this out ) But if you were starting on a steep, loose up hill the F800GS will have more torque right off idle .... but guess what that means? More Wheel Spin.

The Triple requires more revs and a bit more clutch slipping, but will actually spin the wheel LESS then a high torque twin.
Weird rationale that less torque at low RPM is better for slow speeds... which basically makes no sense.

This is not a difficult principle - twin or triple, more low-RPM torque gives you a better shot at walking up steep slopes without clutch slipping. You can compensate to some extent with gearing, but then you compromise the higher-speed cruise.

I think the 800GS would be a better bike in tough terrain, but whether the difference is significant enough to make it the better overall bike would be tough to say and depend on the mission and rider. And how much you're willing to abuse the clutch.

- Mark
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Old 05-12-2011, 12:29 PM   #5561
Adv Grifter
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Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
Weird rationale that less torque at low RPM is better for slow speeds... which basically makes no sense.

This is not a difficult principle - twin or triple, more low-RPM torque gives you a better shot at walking up steep slopes without clutch slipping. You can compensate to some extent with gearing, but then you compromise the higher-speed cruise.

I think the 800GS would be a better bike in tough terrain, but whether the difference is significant enough to make it the better overall bike would be tough to say and depend on the mission and rider.

- Mark
Have you ridden many Triples off road? Very different than a big twin. I've ridden Tigers back to back with BMW GS's. Clutch slipping is surely required on both and both the Tigers and GS's could benefit from lower gearing ... but odd as it may seem ... the Triple is easier to manage than the twin.

So yes, a bit less torque does make it easier. I'm comparing early Tigers (885 and 955i) with BMW 1100/1150GS's not ridden the 800 Tigers off road at all. But if the character of motors is close then I believe the feel/function could be close riding off road.

The engagement of power on the Triple is softer, more linear ... which is a good thing when slipping the clutch, trying to get going on a loose, steep trail. The GS is not subtle at all and requires a very deft clutch hand to keep the rear tire from breaking loose.

It's not as if the Tiger has No torque. If you need power ... just twist. It's there ... but its not brutal, it's soft.
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Old 05-12-2011, 12:50 PM   #5562
OhioPT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdx View Post
I would like to pose a question to those with experience on these bikes. I am not a serious "off road" rider. I do not do single track but I like taking jeep and atv trails and passes in the mountains. Some of which can get kind of hairy. I am willing to sacrifice some "highway" comfort for better trail performance. I have been looking seriously at the 800XC, but am concerned about what I hear is a lack of low end grunt. When turning one of these heavy, highly geared bikes up a rocky switchback, it is nice to be able to roll the throttle on from idle and climb out. I test drove the F800GS and it "seems" to have that kind of power.
Both bikes have more than enough torque. Hell, I find my DL650 has so much torque offroad that I barely use 1st gear, and I have stock gearing. On these multi-cylinder bikes torque is not an issue when riding offroad. This is coming from someone with extensive offroad riding on a FE570 and a KTM 250 2-stroke. I do prefer the low-end torque of my 570 in just about every riding condition (including a lot of technical 1st gear stuff), but comparing my 570 to my 250 (very different power delivery) is nothing like comparing the 800XC to the F800GS (very similar power delivery).

What ADV Grifter said actually makes sense when discussing these powerful, multi-cylinder adventure bikes.
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Old 05-12-2011, 01:52 PM   #5563
KildareMan
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Stainless Steel Scorpion exhaust arrived today. Literally a 10 minute job to fit. OEM weighed in at 5.8KG (12.79lb) The Scorpion 3.2KG (7.05lb). More importantly it looks better, almost anaemic in comparison to the Triumph can. Cost 249.



So far the baffle is staying in, but even so it sounds meatier than the stock. No remapping required.
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Old 05-12-2011, 01:59 PM   #5564
spewler
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Quote:
The manual says 87 so use 87. It won't hurt anything. Triumph knows what they designed the bike to run on better than the service manager at your dealer does.

I suspect the bars are there to keep you from jamming the pump nozzle into the fuel pump housing which appears to be just below the bars.
Thanks!
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Old 05-12-2011, 03:07 PM   #5565
Ducksbane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdx View Post
I would like to pose a question to those with experience on these bikes. I am not a serious "off road" rider. I do not do single track but I like taking jeep and atv trails and passes in the mountains. Some of which can get kind of hairy. I am willing to sacrifice some "highway" comfort for better trail performance. I have been looking seriously at the 800XC, but am concerned about what I hear is a lack of low end grunt. When turning one of these heavy, highly geared bikes up a rocky switchback, it is nice to be able to roll the throttle on from idle and climb out. I test drove the F800GS and it "seems" to have that kind of power.

I really like the F800GS but my current beemer has been nothing but trouble and was extremely unhappy with customer service I got. So I don't really want to buy another bmer but will if the Tiger has a serious lack of low end torque. BTW: the KTM Adventure is not an option for me. I rode my buddies and it felt like a monster in comparison to the bmer.

Anyone like to weigh in???
I have had an F800GS for over two years and recently got a XChallenge. I haven't ridden the XChallenge much yet, but compared to the 800 it is a lot lighter and it is better on anything except bitumen.

In regard to low end torque I think the XChallenge has more torque than the 800 just off idle and a more off road orientated power delivery. With things like the "accelerator module" the 800 can have an amazingly linear smooth power delivery. I notice that usually big twins are far smoother in their power delivery of the bottom than singles, but the singles give you more traction.

One of the biggest differences is that despite only having 5 gears the XChallenge has a wider gear spread than the F800GS. The bad bit is that the Tiger XC has an even narrower gear spread than the GS.

Still overall I think the biggest difference you are going to find is the weight. The XChallenge is about 40Kg lighter than the 800's. You will definitely notice this. On the other hand the 800 is a lot smoother and more powerful than the 650 on the road (even though the XChallenge does surprise me with how good it is cruising along at 120Km/hr).

Summary ... don't expect that the 800GS is going to as good off road as the XChallenge. This probably applies more so to the Tiger as most tests say the the 800GS is a bit better off road the the Tiger. They are both going to be a lot heavier and their gear ratios are a bit of a compromise as well. Also, much as everyone doesn't seem to like the XChallenges's suspension I think it will be a lot better off road than either 800.

Thinking about this a bit more I'd say that the main reason that the XChallenge is better off road than the F800GS is the weight. The power delivery is fine, excellent in fact, but once you get above a single 650 they start being big, heavy bikes that are more demanding to ride in real off road conditions.

I am still taking the 800 on a ride this weekend though because it is so much warmer and more comfortable and will easily cope with the light off road we are going to be doing!
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