ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Beasts > British Beasts: Triumph Tigers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-02-2011, 08:00 AM   #7591
urquell
Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2011
Location: Blue Ridge, NC
Oddometer: 14
Tiger 800 Stalling

I never use the kill switch to turn off the bike.
urquell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 08:06 AM   #7592
Mercury264
Once you go Triple...
 
Mercury264's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Masshole
Oddometer: 22,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by urquell View Post
I never use the kill switch to turn off the bike.


I guess we can scratch that as a possible cause then....
__________________
'12 Tiger 800XC
'07 TE510
'02 Sprint ST
'99 XR650L
'99 Speed Triple
Mercury264 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 08:35 AM   #7593
Deano955
Insatiable
 
Deano955's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Eames Lounge Adv'er
Oddometer: 4,030
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAMPAJIM View Post
The 800GS charcoal canister stalling problem was confined to the USA (the only county to require them) and was attributed to two things. (1) the canister vent hose was pulling in water. This was fixed by installing a "T" vent (much like a plumbing stack) in the line. (2) Overfilled gas tanks were overflowing into the canister. Fix was to stop overfilling the gas tank, particularly on a hot day.
This is interesting. I'm now convinced that my XC died in the stream Saturday because the charcoal canister sucked in water.

Do you know where the T mod was/ is located on the BMW's?
__________________
Save $5 off your smugmug account with this coupon( 1qoLJk8tfsGWM )
COHVCO, AMA, ETC...
Deano955 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 08:39 AM   #7594
Deano955
Insatiable
 
Deano955's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Eames Lounge Adv'er
Oddometer: 4,030
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jerk View Post
I was just looking through the service manual regarding the discussion a page or two back about the stepper motor or idle speed control motor as they call it.

Here's what the service manual has to say about this part:

"Throttle stepper motor:
Situated between the throttle bodies of cylinders two and three. The throttle stepper actuates a cam/lever which causes variations in the closed throttle position. Although used primarily to ensure target idle speed is maintained, it also increases throttle opening when the engine is cold."

FYI.
FWIW my high idling XC was diagnosed with a bad stepper motor and throttle position sensor. The fix (in Triumh's diagnosis) was to replace the entire throttle body assembly. Both the stepper motor and TPS are on that assembly.

FWIW again, the high idle issue is gone. Now my bike has the stalling issue...


I'm intrigued by the discussion about the charcoal canister. Might be on to something?
__________________
Save $5 off your smugmug account with this coupon( 1qoLJk8tfsGWM )
COHVCO, AMA, ETC...
Deano955 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 08:50 AM   #7595
TAMPAJIM
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Central Florida
Oddometer: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury264 View Post
Thanks Jim. That is good to know. I assume that if you do indeed fill the canister with water and/or gas, the fix is as simple as emptying it (into an approved container of course ) ?

I guess so. I have no idea where it is on the Tiger.
Many of the GS guys just yanked the canister. End of problem
But since the Tiger stalling is world wide the canister most likely isn't the problem. Well except maybe the rider who stalled running through deep water.
__________________
__________
Jim

TAMPAJIM screwed with this post 08-02-2011 at 04:38 PM
TAMPAJIM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 09:02 AM   #7596
TAMPAJIM
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Central Florida
Oddometer: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deano955 View Post
This is interesting. I'm now convinced that my XC died in the stream Saturday because the charcoal canister sucked in water.

Do you know where the T mod was/ is located on the BMW's?
They cut off the rubber vent/drain hose after if exited the canister, installed a "T" tube fitting, one end going down. the other was led as high as possible up under the seat. It breaks the vacuum so that water couldn't be sucked into the canister. The original configuration had the drain hose led down near the rear tire where it was subject to a lot of water when it rained. (and I assume when crossing streams)
__________________
__________
Jim

TAMPAJIM screwed with this post 08-02-2011 at 11:07 AM
TAMPAJIM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 09:32 AM   #7597
Mercury264
Once you go Triple...
 
Mercury264's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Masshole
Oddometer: 22,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deano955 View Post
This is interesting. I'm now convinced that my XC died in the stream Saturday because the charcoal canister sucked in water.

Do you know where the T mod was/ is located on the BMW's?
From Mr Jerk's explanation above, I wonder what the right-angled pipe that exits the canister towards the front is for ? I assume (and again we all know how that goes) that is an overflow for when/if the canister fills up

The 2 at the back I guess are the inlet from the gas tank and the outlet to the throttle bodies ?
__________________
'12 Tiger 800XC
'07 TE510
'02 Sprint ST
'99 XR650L
'99 Speed Triple
Mercury264 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 09:37 AM   #7598
cug
--
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Sunny California
Oddometer: 4,936
If it is like the F800GS: The canister will have one hose that vents out to the environment probably very low on the bike, insert a T in there and route one of the hoses from the T up high on the bike so that it can vent gas out the low hose (gravity) and suck air from the high if the lower one is clogged due to a water crossing.
cug is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 09:45 AM   #7599
Mercury264
Once you go Triple...
 
Mercury264's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Masshole
Oddometer: 22,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
If it is like the F800GS: The canister will have one hose that vents out to the environment probably very low on the bike, insert a T in there and route one of the hoses from the T up high on the bike so that it can vent gas out the low hose (gravity) and suck air from the high if the lower one is clogged due to a water crossing.
That will be the right-angled tube on the front then.
__________________
'12 Tiger 800XC
'07 TE510
'02 Sprint ST
'99 XR650L
'99 Speed Triple
Mercury264 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 10:11 AM   #7600
Lion BR
I'd rather be riding
 
Lion BR's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon
Oddometer: 4,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury264 View Post
Do you use the kill switch or the key to turn the bike off ? What about the charcoal canister was causing the stalling ?

Good Luck
Since you've been asking this question, you should know that I never use the kill switch to turn my bike off. And it has the "blip the throttle" engine cutoff problem.
Thanks
Lion
__________________
Whenever we are riding, we are an ambassador to our sport

I'd rather be riding!


Lion BR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 10:28 AM   #7601
The Jerk
Bring us some fresh wine!
 
The Jerk's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Oddometer: 2,651
Quote:
Originally Posted by urquell View Post
Just a quick update regarding my previously described stalling problems.

First, I am continuing to ride and the stalling occurred for a third time. It was during nearly identical circumstances. The bike would not idle at a stop sign. In my previous post, I had said it would not idle at 800 rpm. This was an error on my part. My bike usually idles at about 1400 rpm, not 800. I shut the bike down right away for five minutes, restarted, and had no problems for the remaining thirty minutes of my ride. Several other rides were event-free.

I received my DealerTool, and just as The Jerk had predicted there were no faults recorded. I have made an appointment for service, but they are so busy it won't be for two weeks. My dealer told me that he has seen two similar problems with stalling on BMW bikes in which the culprit was the charcoal canister. I'll post an update when I know more.
Based on the ECU map, the Tiger 800 should idle around 1100 rpm when fully warmed up. 1400 rpm is quite high unless the engine is cold and even then the idle speed should decrease as the engine warms up.
__________________
2000 Kawasaki W650
The Jerk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 10:48 AM   #7602
Evomx971
Defrosting in NM
 
Evomx971's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Iowa
Oddometer: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAMPAJIM View Post
I guess so. I have no idea where it is on the Tiger.
Many of the GS guys just yanked the canister. End of problem
But since the Tiger stalling is world wide the canister cannot be blamed. Well except maybe the rider who stalled running through deep water.
Has anyone removed the canister on the Tiger 800's? When I put on my SW Motech plate last night I strongly contemplated pulling it, but got to looking at the schematic for it in my shop manual and decided against it. I think I know what hoses I could cut, plug, and/or remove... not quite sure if I'd need to do anything with the purge control valve though. It's wired into the system and the ECU controls it. Not sure if I can just unplug it or leave it plugged in without any hoses on it... don't want an error to start getting thrown if the ECU could figure out the canister or the valve isn't there anymore. Once the two year warranty is up, I'm sure it'll be well documented how to remove that POS. WAY more trouble than the good it can bring.
__________________
"In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." ~ A. Lincoln
'11 Triumph 800XC ABS / '94 Honda XR650L / '06 Yamaha YZ125
Thanks to my 2015 Sponsor: Motorex
What Next Wander Tour http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=853663
Evomx971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 11:06 AM   #7603
Mercury264
Once you go Triple...
 
Mercury264's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Masshole
Oddometer: 22,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion BR View Post
Since you've been asking this question, you should know that I never use the kill switch to turn my bike off. And it has the "blip the throttle" engine cutoff problem.
Thanks
Lion
Thanks

Something else we can rule out I think.
__________________
'12 Tiger 800XC
'07 TE510
'02 Sprint ST
'99 XR650L
'99 Speed Triple
Mercury264 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 11:35 AM   #7604
urquell
Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2011
Location: Blue Ridge, NC
Oddometer: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jerk View Post
Based on the ECU map, the Tiger 800 should idle around 1100 rpm when fully warmed up. 1400 rpm is quite high unless the engine is cold and even then the idle speed should decrease as the engine warms up.
I just took a short ride to pay close attention to my bike's idle speed. It is 1400 after a cold start, 1350 after a few minutes, and then settles in at around 1100 after the engine fully warms up. No stalling today!
urquell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 01:39 PM   #7605
levain
STILL Jim Williams
 
levain's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Providence, RI
Oddometer: 7,399
I'm going to make a stupid observation now. Stay tuned......























I'm not the most mechanically inclined mofo around, but this is sounding more and more like vapor lock to me.
__________________
2015 KTM 690 Enduro R, 2008 Yamaha WR250R, 1971 Lambretta DL
levain is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 11:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2015