ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Beasts > British Beasts: Triumph Tigers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-02-2011, 01:43 PM   #7606
The Jerk
Bring us some fresh wine!
 
The Jerk's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Oddometer: 2,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
I'm going to make a stupid observation now. Stay tuned.....

I'm not the most mechanically inclined mofo around, but this is sounding more and more like vapor lock to me.
Vapor lock doesn't happen on fuel injected engines because the fuel is under pressure in the lines - approximately 3 bar. The pressure keeps the fuel from vaporizing in the lines.

I don't know what the issue is, but at least we can rule out vapor lock.
__________________
2000 Kawasaki W650
The Jerk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 01:48 PM   #7607
levain
STILL Jim Williams
 
levain's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Providence, RI
Oddometer: 7,464
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jerk View Post
Vapor lock doesn't happen on fuel injected engines because the fuel is under pressure in the lines - approximately 3 bar. The pressure keeps the fuel from vaporizing in the lines.

I don't know what the issue is, but at least we can rule out vapor lock.
Like I said. A Stupid observation

What folks are describing is exactly what used to happen on my old S10

Fortunately, at 3200 miles, I have a "trouble free" 2012XC. Lets hope it stays that way
__________________
2015 KTM 690 Enduro R, 2008 Yamaha WR250R, 1971 Lambretta DL
levain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 01:56 PM   #7608
ButtonPushingMonkey
Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Location: Denver
Oddometer: 44
So here are a couple stupid questions:

Is the efi system really "adaptive"? As in if you add a free flowing pipe or delete the cat you will not run lean because the ecu will adjust the fueling to achieve the a/f ratio it expects based off the stock map? Basically is it like the 1989 to 1991 mustang efi that responds well to minor mods?

Is the speed pickup at the rear gearbox and therefore affected by gearing changes, and if so can it be changed thru the dash or only with the uber pricey factory tool??
ButtonPushingMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 02:19 PM   #7609
cug
--
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Sunny California
Oddometer: 4,970
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jerk View Post
Vapor lock doesn't happen on fuel injected engines because the fuel is under pressure in the lines - approximately 3 bar. The pressure keeps the fuel from vaporizing in the lines.

I don't know what the issue is, but at least we can rule out vapor lock.
Are you sure? On my R1200GS the canister empties into the left cylinder. This can (very rarely) cause vapor lock.

It's one of the reasons why a GS might run like crap after fueling and then sitting in the sun for a while.
cug is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 02:21 PM   #7610
The Jerk
Bring us some fresh wine!
 
The Jerk's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Oddometer: 2,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtonPushingMonkey View Post
So here are a couple stupid questions:

Is the efi system really "adaptive"? As in if you add a free flowing pipe or delete the cat you will not run lean because the ecu will adjust the fueling to achieve the a/f ratio it expects based off the stock map? Basically is it like the 1989 to 1991 mustang efi that responds well to minor mods?
It's adaptive within certain limitations. My understanding is that the adaptive bit really only happens in closed-loop operation which is basically idle and steady-state cruising. In that mode, the oxygen sensor is providing feedback to the ECU regarding the air/fuel mixture. There is a map of target air/fuel ratios stored in the ECU and the ECU adapts the fueling to try to hit those air/fuel targets. However this only happens in closed-loop mode.

In open loop mode (such as when accelerating), the air/fuel map and oxygen sensor are out of play and the ECU works off the values contained in the fuel tables based on rpm and calculated engine load.

So the ECU may be able to compensate to a certain degree for a freer-flowing pipe, for example, but only at steady state closed loop operation. At other times, it will run lean. Which is why there is a special tune that has to be installed when installing the Arrow exhaust

Quote:
Is the speed pickup at the rear gearbox and therefore affected by gearing changes, and if so can it be changed thru the dash or only with the uber pricey factory tool??
The speed pickup is electronic and reads off the gearbox so speedometer accuracy will be affected by gearing changes. TuneECU provides a setting to adjust the speedometer error but I've found that it seems to have no effect on my Tiger 800. Anybody else try it?
__________________
2000 Kawasaki W650
The Jerk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 02:29 PM   #7611
The Jerk
Bring us some fresh wine!
 
The Jerk's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Oddometer: 2,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
Are you sure? On my R1200GS the canister empties into the left cylinder. This can (very rarely) cause vapor lock.

It's one of the reasons why a GS might run like crap after fueling and then sitting in the sun for a while.
That's not vapor lock. Vapor lock is a condition that could occur on carbureted vehicles where the fuel was delivered by a low-pressure pump (3-5 psi). Especially if the fuel had to be pumped upward to feed the carbs (so more of a problem for cars than motorcycles). If the fuel in the lines got hot enough (routed too close to the header or just stuck in traffic on a really hot day) the fuel would basically boil in the lines at which point the pump could no longer deliver fuel to the carbs. The vapor is compressible where the liquid is not. Kinda like having air bubbles in your brake lines.

When this happened, the engine would starve for fuel and stall. You could not restart until things cooled down.

The high pressure of modern FI systems is more than sufficient to keep the fuel liquid even in the hottest conditions.
__________________
2000 Kawasaki W650
The Jerk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 02:40 PM   #7612
cug
--
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Sunny California
Oddometer: 4,970
Okay, might have mixed up things - so it's probably just that the whole injection gets whacked when the canister empties into the left cylinder.

I might remove that connection if the bad running ever happens again for me. Really annoying.
cug is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 03:41 PM   #7613
Shep
Vagabond
 
Shep's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: The State of Indecision
Oddometer: 514
Took my Road model out for its first proper ride today, about 200 miles of mostly local backroads in the sweltering Midwest head and humidity. Coming from a 1200GS, I am very happy so far. Heading to Louisville in the morning to have the shop mount the Arrow slip on. I have them on my Street Triple and knew I wanted it on the Tiger as well.

Shep
__________________
Looking for the Road Less Traveled...and a 690 Duke.
http://motorheadcoffee.wordpress.com/
Shep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 03:56 PM   #7614
3Putt
Is that a gimmie?
 
3Putt's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Rockford, IL
Oddometer: 642
Right as mine turned 2000 miles it was hit by the stalling problem.
__________________
Tom

2013 RT
3Putt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 04:18 PM   #7615
Xcountry-Rider
Banned
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Pine Valley, California (San Diego County)
Oddometer: 912
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Putt View Post
Right as mine turned 2000 miles it was hit by the stalling problem.
What octane gas is everyone using with the stalling issue?
Xcountry-Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 05:30 PM   #7616
Deano955
Insatiable
 
Deano955's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Eames Lounge Adv'er
Oddometer: 4,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Putt View Post
Right as mine turned 2000 miles it was hit by the stalling problem.
I'm sorry, but Welcome to The Club!!!
__________________
Save $5 off your smugmug account with this coupon( 1qoLJk8tfsGWM )
COHVCO, AMA, ETC...
Deano955 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 05:32 PM   #7617
Deano955
Insatiable
 
Deano955's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Eames Lounge Adv'er
Oddometer: 4,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcountry-Rider View Post
What octane gas is everyone using with the stalling issue?
I've been running 87 this past weekend. And coincidentally, this weekend is when my stalling started. It's not really related to 87 in my opinion. Last month, before I took mine in to the shop, where it stayed for 25 days and got a new throttle body assembly, I was running both 91 and 87. No issues with stalling before I took it in for its 500 mile service. Just a 2000 rpm idle. ..
__________________
Save $5 off your smugmug account with this coupon( 1qoLJk8tfsGWM )
COHVCO, AMA, ETC...

Deano955 screwed with this post 08-02-2011 at 05:41 PM
Deano955 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 05:37 PM   #7618
urquell
Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2011
Location: Blue Ridge, NC
Oddometer: 14
Tiger 800 Stalling

I've been using 87 octane gasoline exclusively. I don't know if it matters, but my stalling also started sometime after the 500 mile service.
urquell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 05:38 PM   #7619
Deano955
Insatiable
 
Deano955's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Eames Lounge Adv'er
Oddometer: 4,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAMPAJIM View Post
I guess so. I have no idea where it is on the Tiger.
Many of the GS guys just yanked the canister. End of problem
But since the Tiger stalling is world wide the canister most likely isn't the problem. Well except maybe the rider who stalled running through deep water.
I think I'm the lucky rider that stalled in the stream crossing that you're referring to? Anyway, the water was not that deep. It was however deeper than the canister on my XC. I'm convinced that it choked and died in the water because the water got sucked up through the tube with the right angle bend in the photo below.



So, the location of the charcoal canister on the Tiger 800 is right below the gear shift lever.

Rear of Canister:

__________________
Save $5 off your smugmug account with this coupon( 1qoLJk8tfsGWM )
COHVCO, AMA, ETC...
Deano955 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2011, 05:53 PM   #7620
MJNygs
El Duderino
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Oddometer: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcountry-Rider View Post
What octane gas is everyone using with the stalling issue?
Always using premium, which ranges between 91-93.
MJNygs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 06:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2015