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Old 08-02-2011, 10:45 AM   #7636
Mercury264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
If it is like the F800GS: The canister will have one hose that vents out to the environment probably very low on the bike, insert a T in there and route one of the hoses from the T up high on the bike so that it can vent gas out the low hose (gravity) and suck air from the high if the lower one is clogged due to a water crossing.
That will be the right-angled tube on the front then.
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:11 AM   #7637
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Originally Posted by Mercury264 View Post
Do you use the kill switch or the key to turn the bike off ? What about the charcoal canister was causing the stalling ?

Good Luck
Since you've been asking this question, you should know that I never use the kill switch to turn my bike off. And it has the "blip the throttle" engine cutoff problem.
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:28 AM   #7638
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Originally Posted by urquell View Post
Just a quick update regarding my previously described stalling problems.

First, I am continuing to ride and the stalling occurred for a third time. It was during nearly identical circumstances. The bike would not idle at a stop sign. In my previous post, I had said it would not idle at 800 rpm. This was an error on my part. My bike usually idles at about 1400 rpm, not 800. I shut the bike down right away for five minutes, restarted, and had no problems for the remaining thirty minutes of my ride. Several other rides were event-free.

I received my DealerTool, and just as The Jerk had predicted there were no faults recorded. I have made an appointment for service, but they are so busy it won't be for two weeks. My dealer told me that he has seen two similar problems with stalling on BMW bikes in which the culprit was the charcoal canister. I'll post an update when I know more.
Based on the ECU map, the Tiger 800 should idle around 1100 rpm when fully warmed up. 1400 rpm is quite high unless the engine is cold and even then the idle speed should decrease as the engine warms up.
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:48 AM   #7639
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Originally Posted by TAMPAJIM View Post
I guess so. I have no idea where it is on the Tiger.
Many of the GS guys just yanked the canister. End of problem
But since the Tiger stalling is world wide the canister cannot be blamed. Well except maybe the rider who stalled running through deep water.
Has anyone removed the canister on the Tiger 800's? When I put on my SW Motech plate last night I strongly contemplated pulling it, but got to looking at the schematic for it in my shop manual and decided against it. I think I know what hoses I could cut, plug, and/or remove... not quite sure if I'd need to do anything with the purge control valve though. It's wired into the system and the ECU controls it. Not sure if I can just unplug it or leave it plugged in without any hoses on it... don't want an error to start getting thrown if the ECU could figure out the canister or the valve isn't there anymore. Once the two year warranty is up, I'm sure it'll be well documented how to remove that POS. WAY more trouble than the good it can bring.
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Old 08-02-2011, 12:06 PM   #7640
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Originally Posted by Lion BR View Post
Since you've been asking this question, you should know that I never use the kill switch to turn my bike off. And it has the "blip the throttle" engine cutoff problem.
Thanks
Lion
Thanks

Something else we can rule out I think.
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Old 08-02-2011, 12:35 PM   #7641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jerk View Post
Based on the ECU map, the Tiger 800 should idle around 1100 rpm when fully warmed up. 1400 rpm is quite high unless the engine is cold and even then the idle speed should decrease as the engine warms up.
I just took a short ride to pay close attention to my bike's idle speed. It is 1400 after a cold start, 1350 after a few minutes, and then settles in at around 1100 after the engine fully warms up. No stalling today!
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Old 08-02-2011, 02:39 PM   #7642
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I'm going to make a stupid observation now. Stay tuned......























I'm not the most mechanically inclined mofo around, but this is sounding more and more like vapor lock to me.
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Old 08-02-2011, 02:43 PM   #7643
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I'm going to make a stupid observation now. Stay tuned.....

I'm not the most mechanically inclined mofo around, but this is sounding more and more like vapor lock to me.
Vapor lock doesn't happen on fuel injected engines because the fuel is under pressure in the lines - approximately 3 bar. The pressure keeps the fuel from vaporizing in the lines.

I don't know what the issue is, but at least we can rule out vapor lock.
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Old 08-02-2011, 02:48 PM   #7644
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Originally Posted by The Jerk View Post
Vapor lock doesn't happen on fuel injected engines because the fuel is under pressure in the lines - approximately 3 bar. The pressure keeps the fuel from vaporizing in the lines.

I don't know what the issue is, but at least we can rule out vapor lock.
Like I said. A Stupid observation

What folks are describing is exactly what used to happen on my old S10

Fortunately, at 3200 miles, I have a "trouble free" 2012XC. Lets hope it stays that way
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Old 08-02-2011, 02:56 PM   #7645
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So here are a couple stupid questions:

Is the efi system really "adaptive"? As in if you add a free flowing pipe or delete the cat you will not run lean because the ecu will adjust the fueling to achieve the a/f ratio it expects based off the stock map? Basically is it like the 1989 to 1991 mustang efi that responds well to minor mods?

Is the speed pickup at the rear gearbox and therefore affected by gearing changes, and if so can it be changed thru the dash or only with the uber pricey factory tool??
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Old 08-02-2011, 03:19 PM   #7646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jerk View Post
Vapor lock doesn't happen on fuel injected engines because the fuel is under pressure in the lines - approximately 3 bar. The pressure keeps the fuel from vaporizing in the lines.

I don't know what the issue is, but at least we can rule out vapor lock.
Are you sure? On my R1200GS the canister empties into the left cylinder. This can (very rarely) cause vapor lock.

It's one of the reasons why a GS might run like crap after fueling and then sitting in the sun for a while.
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Old 08-02-2011, 03:21 PM   #7647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtonPushingMonkey View Post
So here are a couple stupid questions:

Is the efi system really "adaptive"? As in if you add a free flowing pipe or delete the cat you will not run lean because the ecu will adjust the fueling to achieve the a/f ratio it expects based off the stock map? Basically is it like the 1989 to 1991 mustang efi that responds well to minor mods?
It's adaptive within certain limitations. My understanding is that the adaptive bit really only happens in closed-loop operation which is basically idle and steady-state cruising. In that mode, the oxygen sensor is providing feedback to the ECU regarding the air/fuel mixture. There is a map of target air/fuel ratios stored in the ECU and the ECU adapts the fueling to try to hit those air/fuel targets. However this only happens in closed-loop mode.

In open loop mode (such as when accelerating), the air/fuel map and oxygen sensor are out of play and the ECU works off the values contained in the fuel tables based on rpm and calculated engine load.

So the ECU may be able to compensate to a certain degree for a freer-flowing pipe, for example, but only at steady state closed loop operation. At other times, it will run lean. Which is why there is a special tune that has to be installed when installing the Arrow exhaust

Quote:
Is the speed pickup at the rear gearbox and therefore affected by gearing changes, and if so can it be changed thru the dash or only with the uber pricey factory tool??
The speed pickup is electronic and reads off the gearbox so speedometer accuracy will be affected by gearing changes. TuneECU provides a setting to adjust the speedometer error but I've found that it seems to have no effect on my Tiger 800. Anybody else try it?
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Old 08-02-2011, 03:29 PM   #7648
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Originally Posted by cug View Post
Are you sure? On my R1200GS the canister empties into the left cylinder. This can (very rarely) cause vapor lock.

It's one of the reasons why a GS might run like crap after fueling and then sitting in the sun for a while.
That's not vapor lock. Vapor lock is a condition that could occur on carbureted vehicles where the fuel was delivered by a low-pressure pump (3-5 psi). Especially if the fuel had to be pumped upward to feed the carbs (so more of a problem for cars than motorcycles). If the fuel in the lines got hot enough (routed too close to the header or just stuck in traffic on a really hot day) the fuel would basically boil in the lines at which point the pump could no longer deliver fuel to the carbs. The vapor is compressible where the liquid is not. Kinda like having air bubbles in your brake lines.

When this happened, the engine would starve for fuel and stall. You could not restart until things cooled down.

The high pressure of modern FI systems is more than sufficient to keep the fuel liquid even in the hottest conditions.
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Old 08-02-2011, 03:40 PM   #7649
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Okay, might have mixed up things - so it's probably just that the whole injection gets whacked when the canister empties into the left cylinder.

I might remove that connection if the bad running ever happens again for me. Really annoying.
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Old 08-02-2011, 04:41 PM   #7650
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Took my Road model out for its first proper ride today, about 200 miles of mostly local backroads in the sweltering Midwest head and humidity. Coming from a 1200GS, I am very happy so far. Heading to Louisville in the morning to have the shop mount the Arrow slip on. I have them on my Street Triple and knew I wanted it on the Tiger as well.

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