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Old 08-05-2011, 09:45 AM   #7771
Adv Grifter
on the road o'dreams
 
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Location: Passing ADV Stalkers in California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtonPushingMonkey View Post
So, being a technical sort of guy that has to deal with bugs and flaws on a daily basis this sort of issue intrigues me. In my line of work I find that many times several completely unrelated client side issues are attributed to a server side bug simply because a known issue is occurring. This can muddy the waters a bit and end up delaying the main issue resolution. The trick is weeding out the ID10T errors from the valid ones.

In this case because of the length of the thread it can be a bit hard to judge who simply needs to adjust their riding style to account for a tall geared, light flywheel bike and those actually affected by a fueling/ignition/tb opening bug. If there is a bug it should fit into a pattern that is fairly consistent that will weed out the people not actually having the issues.

The devil is in the details. Getting everyone we know with the stalling issue to answer the following would help.

What modifications to the stock setup are in place?
How many miles were on the bike when you first noticed the stalling?
Was anything out of the ordinary done to the bike just prior to that?
Does the outside or bike temperature seem to make a difference in the frequency of the stalls?
Does the stalling occur more frequently after fully filling the tank?
If so does a partial fill produce the same results?
Does the stalling ever occur when you are moving, but with the clutch engaged?
Does the stalling occur more at long stop lights or short stop and go stops?
Does the stall ever occur while stopped but with the clutch fully engaged in 1st(ie not starting to go)?
How about in N just sitting there?
Does the rpm fluctuate while you are stopped just prior to the stall?
If so explain and does it fluctuate on non-stall stops?
Does it stall mainly when leaving the stop?
If so does it make a difference if it was a stop that you stayed in first and held the clutch in or a stop that you shifted into N, let out the clutch, pulled the clutch in, shifted back into 1 before trying to leave?
Can you consistently reproduce the stalling? If so what steps do you take that more often than not result in a stall?
This is good!
You should forward it to Triumph as a basic guide to troubleshooting this problem. Assembling a data base from affected owners could speed up finding a solution. Better than just throwing expensive parts at it ... not being sure what's what.
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:47 AM   #7772
fbj913
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Location: KC MO
Oddometer: 2,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
Unlike you I do not whine and snivel.

And unlike you I hope that you get your stalling issue sorted out soon.
Its not cool to come on here and tell everyone they are idiots and dont know how to ride thier bike. For some, the girls on thier Alaska trip, this has turned out to be a show stopper for them. And they are riding for a good charity cause. Just use your words a little better my ADV friend. I have confidence it will get solved. I have ridden mine from the time mine started to stall. Ive even figured out when its going to happen and how to just keep on truckin. Adapt and overcome! If you really are going to sell Motorcycles you might want to work on your people skills.

Thats not true. I hope I get my stalling issue sorted out as well.

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Old 08-05-2011, 09:49 AM   #7773
fbj913
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So what do you think is going on? What does your dealer say? Have you (or your dealer) called Triumph USA in Georgia and spoken with a Tech?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fbj913 View Post
Yes they have looked at it. I do believe I am the first to post on here about the issue. Its way back on page 444. A couple weeks ago Corporate Triumph had my bike hooked to a computer here at my dealer running some tests over the internet. They say they are working on a fix. My dealer still stands by the fact that it is a software issue. At first I wanted to doubt that fact but I am glad I stood by their decision because guys on here that are having parts replaced and lots of in house money spent still have the issue. For now I am chillin out with the Arrow tune. Since it was installed I havnt done a lot of riding so I'm not sure this worked but I will find out this weekend!!!
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:56 AM   #7774
halfast3
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Location: usually in Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spewler
Getting ready to do the 6,000 mile oil change on the XC...is it necessary to remove or loosen the skid plate to remove the oil filter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KildareMan View Post
No but it's wise to direct the flow when draining otherwise you'll catch some in the plate and it'll dribble for ages


[/QUOTE]

Try spraying a soapy solution on the sump guard before removing the filter. Once the new filter is installed, spray more soapy water and rinse with clear water. Most of the oil will wash away into your oil drain pan.
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:58 AM   #7775
Adv Grifter
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Location: Passing ADV Stalkers in California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soph9 View Post
Much better mounting/bracket system for the OEM panniers. Other than that as I have said before a info button for dash with easy on and off ABS. Near perfect bike in most aspects and if they give it more ground clearance might alienate the more vertically challenge. The way the XC and seat adjustments are presently makes this bike good for even a shorty like me at 5'41/2".
I'm hoping Triumph are following your AK ride. Real world touring brings forward the most important issues. Did the luggage mounts break? Or just hard to use?

A special "Low Seat" could possibly solve the problem for limited inseam riders. The fact is ... the Tiger is short on ground clearance. Another inch and bit more travel would help considerably off road ... especially when fully loaded. (or overloaded?) Looking forward to your full review of the bike and the ride. If there are legit problems Triumph need to know. We need more riders like you gals getting out there and beating on these bikes for months ... not just a few days. Kudos!

Quote:
Originally Posted by markbvt View Post
I've been saying since before the T800 even began shipping that I would be shocked if Triumph didn't release an "XC R"-type model within a few years. I would expect it to come with fully-adjustable suspension, possibly standard aluminum skidplate and crashbars, maybe even knobby tires from the factory.

--mark
Well, if it's a true "R", it should have Ohlins front and back. Big step up from the Showa items ... unless they switch to a Big Piston fork? I agree ... probably will be a few years before we see this bike. Triumph could do it special order, limited edition. I only brought it up because the Daytona "R" version is such a bargain. You're getting about $5000 worth of world class suspension for $1500.
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Old 08-05-2011, 10:03 AM   #7776
Mike_MRS
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I've been following the stalling threads on here and on the tiger uk forum. Mine is not (yet) doing it, but I spoke with my local dealer (uk based) earlier today and he confidently told me that a "magic bullet" is coming from triumph to all dealers towards the end of next week - a software patch apparently. He didn't know more than that, or what the specific issue itself is (save for the stalling) He went on to say that once the patch is loaded on their demo bike (which has the stalling problem) they'll see how it is and assuming it resolves it, will call in the owners with the stalling issue and get it sorted. So, hopefully that info might help someone - so put some pressure on your own dealers and see what they say.
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Old 08-05-2011, 10:09 AM   #7777
soph9
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Location: Maple Ridge, BC Canada
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I have the low gel seat on my bike my partner has the regular height grl seat and both of us are on the low setting. Works well. Yeah Triumph has been in touch with us they are completely updated. Other than the stalling seriously the suspension has done well loaded up and the rocky rough roads up here. Even hit a few craters by accident and all good. It's a great bike out of the box with of adv accessories.


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Old 08-05-2011, 10:17 AM   #7778
DAKEZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbj913 View Post
Its not cool to come on here and tell everyone they are idiots and dont know how to ride thier bike.
Please share with me and the rest where I ever even remotely hinted at anyone being an idiot or that they don't know how to ride their bike...

You sure read a lot of things into other peoples posts.
__________________
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Old 08-05-2011, 10:18 AM   #7779
MJNygs
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Joined: Jun 2011
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I'll play along...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtonPushingMonkey View Post

What modifications to the stock setup are in place?
Nothing much - just heated grips and alarm
Quote:
How many miles were on the bike when you first noticed the stalling?
5miles , the day I drove it off the lot
Quote:
Was anything out of the ordinary done to the bike just prior to that?
Nope
Quote:
Does the outside or bike temperature seem to make a difference in the frequency of the stalls?
Seems to happen following a warm re-start of the engine, but does not happen consistently. Ambient temp does not seem to have any impact.
Quote:
Does the stalling occur more frequently after fully filling the tank?
No
Quote:
If so does a partial fill produce the same results?
No discernible difference
Quote:
Does the stalling ever occur when you are moving, but with the clutch engaged?
No
Quote:
Does the stalling occur more at long stop lights or short stop and go stops?
Only at long stops
Quote:
Does the stall ever occur while stopped but with the clutch fully engaged in 1st(ie not starting to go)?
Yes
Quote:
How about in N just sitting there?
Yes
Quote:
Does the rpm fluctuate while you are stopped just prior to the stall?
Yes
Quote:
If so explain and does it fluctuate on non-stall stops?
rpms will usually dip slightly and recover a few times before stalling, but sometimes will just fall off entirely - does not usually happen on non-stall stops. One way i've countered this is when rpms start to fluctuate, twist the throttle slightly to keep the rpms up while waiting for the light to change
Quote:
Does it stall mainly when leaving the stop?
Sometimes, but not always. In some cases, it will stall at idle while in Neutral
Quote:
If so does it make a difference if it was a stop that you stayed in first and held the clutch in or a stop that you shifted into N, let out the clutch, pulled the clutch in, shifted back into 1 before trying to leave?
No difference
Quote:
Can you consistently reproduce the stalling? If so what steps do you take that more often than not result in a stall?
No, cannot consistently reproduce, which makes it especially odd. Seems to want to occur just before the stoplight turns green and when you have a long line of cars behind you. Overall it is not a huge factor, just more of an annoyance - have only had it occur 15-20 times total over the 3 months and 3k miles on the bike.
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Old 08-05-2011, 10:32 AM   #7780
KildareMan
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Location: County Kildare, Ireland
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This is what happens when you have an old anti static mat whispering "use me"

Seat lock cover


"Hole" filler for raised touring screen


Extended rear mud guard


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Old 08-05-2011, 11:38 AM   #7781
markjenn
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Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Swellvue, WA
Oddometer: 10,308
I'll stick in my $0.02 and speculate that when a new bike design intermittently stalls at idle or when approaching idle it often has to do with the re-introduction of idle fuel on coast down.

For emissions and fuel economy reasons, most FI bikes (and cars) completely cut fuel off on coast-down when you're at speed and off the throttle. At some point as the bike decelerates to a stop and the rider pulls the clutch, you have to re-introduce fuel to allow the bike to idle. This is tricky area of software as you can use various clues from the engine speed, road speed, and other sensors about when you likely need to do this. And you want the re-introduction to be "soft" so you don't get a lurch when you add fuel in again.

It's possible that the Triumph's software is adaptive, meaning it changes its behavior based on how the rider is using the bike. This might be the reason an identical bike will have no issues with some riders and many issues with others. It also points to something to try if your bike isn't running well - pull the battery cable for a few minutes and see if things change.

There may also be hardware and sensor interactions that are not properly sorted. For example, a tolerance glitch in the throttle position sensors (TPS) and wreck havoc to a system that is sensitive to this sort of thing.

Constraining how much Triumph can tweak things is the emissions certification. Triumph can't just change things indiscriminately - they have to show that their changes aren't likely to increase overall emissions.

Give them time and I bet they'll get it fixed. Hopefully without big tradeoffs in other areas - the Multistrada fueling fix ended up having some drawbacks.

- Mark
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Old 08-05-2011, 11:42 AM   #7782
bross
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Location: Osoyoos, BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
I'll stick in my $0.02 and speculate that when a new bike design intermittently stalls at idle or when approaching idle it often has to do with the re-introduction of idle fuel on coast down.

For emissions and fuel economy reasons, most FI bikes (and cars) completely cut fuel off on coast-down when you're at speed and off the throttle. At some point as the bike decelerates to a stop and the rider pulls the clutch, you have to re-introduce fuel to allow the bike to idle. This is tricky area of software as you can use various clues from the engine speed, road speed, and other sensors about when you likely need to do this. And you want the re-introduction to be "soft" so you don't get a lurch when you add fuel in again.

It's possible that the Triumph's software is adaptive, meaning it changes its behavior based on how the rider is using the bike. This might be the reason an identical bike will have no issues with some riders and many issues with others. It also points to something to try if your bike isn't running well - pull the battery cable for a few minutes and see if things change.

There may also be hardware and sensor interactions that are not properly sorted. Some tolerance glitch in the throttle position sensors (TPS) and wreck havoc to a system that is sensitive to this sort of thing.

Constraining how much Triumph can tweak things is the emissions certification. Triumph can't just change things indiscriminately - they have to show that their changes aren't likely to increase overall emissions.

Give them time and I bet they'll get it fixed. Hopefully without big tradeoffs in other areas - the Multistrada fueling fix ended up having some drawbacks.

- Mark
As in mileage, they may be able to tweak it to run better at the expense of mileage.
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Old 08-05-2011, 11:47 AM   #7783
ButtonPushingMonkey
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Not having the stalling issue right now I can tell you what I would try as a workaround until the fix was brought out by triumph...I would get the bike nice and hot, then adjust the throttle slack such that it had just enough tension to raise the rpm by 100 or so. Then I would ride it and see if that kept it from stalling if so, great if not I would up it again. That would at least allow me to not always have the "is it gonna stall?" sitting in my head every time I came to a stop while I waited for triumph to provide an update.

Basically the thought behind this is to put in just enough input to the tps to prevent the ecu from falling into the the bad idle mode. This is distinctly different than upping the ecu default idle speed...

ButtonPushingMonkey screwed with this post 08-05-2011 at 11:54 AM
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Old 08-05-2011, 12:16 PM   #7784
grZack
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???

Did anyone try to adjust (higher) the engine idling speed?
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Old 08-05-2011, 12:34 PM   #7785
soph9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtonPushingMonkey View Post
Not having the stalling issue right now I can tell you what I would try as a workaround until the fix was brought out by triumph...I would get the bike nice and hot, then adjust the throttle slack such that it had just enough tension to raise the rpm by 100 or so. Then I would ride it and see if that kept it from stalling if so, great if not I would up it again. That would at least allow me to not always have the "is it gonna stall?" sitting in my head every time I came to a stop while I waited for triumph to provide an update.

Basically the thought behind this is to put in just enough input to the tps to prevent the ecu from falling into the the bad idle mode. This is distinctly different than upping the ecu default idle speed...
This what we are doing for now and it works for an undetermined amount of time but it works


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