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Old 06-29-2012, 07:23 AM   #13291
browneye
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Originally Posted by Bueller View Post
Not true. There is no direct connection between a footpeg and a tire. A scraping peg is not an indication that you are going beyond the contact patch. It is only an indication that you are scraping a peg. For example, with 400 pounds on the bike the suspension will be so compressed that the peg will drag relatively early in terms of lean angle. A 120 pound rider would have a lot more available lean angle before the pegs touched, and would be significantly closer to the edge of the tire.

The footpegs on the tiger are hinged. When they touch they pivot upward. At 185 pounds in riding gear, I am able to continue my lean and can feel them lift with no ill consequences. I've spent enough years at the track and have been on my ass enough times that I have a generally good assessment of limits, when they are being exceeded, and what the consequences are. I'll take a scraping footpeg any day over less contact patch and inferior street rubber (comparatively)
Is the road model significantly better for road than the XC? I'm still trying to decide which model to buy. I expect 90/10 for road. And I want a really good road bike for 2 up touring. If either is superior for that then that is the way I would go. I keep thinking I should be going with GS or Tenere for 2-up, but I really like the lightweight and handling of the Tiger, not to mention it costs a lot less. Power wise I know it will be fine.

I'm always skeptical about owners of XC's that say how great they are in the twisties but admit they've never been on a sportbike. And likewise, how good they are offroad when admittedly they have very little dirt experience.

In just a spin around the block I found the XC to have slower turn in than the roadie. I can imagine a series of sweepers would have you struggling with getting the bike to lay over and turn. I'm not real excited about the wide bars either.

There are too many owners that have bought the wrong model and want to change. I don't want to be one of them.

Have you ridden both models to compare? That you have significant road experience lends credence to your opinion. Thanks!
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Old 06-29-2012, 07:38 AM   #13292
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Originally Posted by browneye View Post
I

I'm always skeptical about owners of XC's that say how great they are in the twisties but admit they've never been on a sportbike. And likewise, how good they are offroad when admittedly they have very little dirt experience.
!

Even the roadie when compared to a sportbike is a pig IMO from my recent road/track experience with my 07 CBR600RR. Other than at a track the tiger is still more fun to ride though.
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Old 06-29-2012, 07:52 AM   #13293
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Have you thought about renting them for a weekends worth of riding, would take maybe 2 or 3 weekends and you could form your own opinion, plus give a good report of what you like and don't like about each, just my 2 cents.

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Old 06-29-2012, 09:04 AM   #13294
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My XC didn't give me any trouble riding in the Smokies. Nothing but twisty roads there. Does it handle like a pure sport bike? No but it isn't one. Is it more than capable of being ridden at speed in excess of the speed limit without having to be wrestled around the corners? Most certainly. I found that it transitioned very nicely and turn-in wasn't an issue. If you have a problem with turn in, there are plenty of adjustments available to make it better. Nice thing was that cornering clearance wasn't an issue at all. Decreasing radius turns were simply a matter of adding a tiny bit of pressure to the inside bar and she laid right on over. I was running the stock Battle Wings and the only time I was concerned about cornering traction was when it was misting and the roads were wet but not rinsed. Felt the back slide on me just a bit on some of the faster corners.
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Old 06-29-2012, 09:27 AM   #13295
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As far as a choice, the xc will do both duties better then the roadie will. If your planning to be off road at all, the xc is a great bike. I have a sport bike for scraping pegs.
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Old 06-29-2012, 09:41 AM   #13296
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As far as a choice, the xc will do both duties better then the roadie will.
Sorry, but that's just your opinion.

In my opinion, the XC will be slightly better in loose stuff where the big spoked front wheel helps, the Roadie will be better in tight street riding where less rotating mass from the smaller (front) and lighter wheels and the better street rubber helps.

Both have suspension that is insufficient for harder riding anyways, the XC slightly better, but not enough to give it an edge on the road.

Along with added convenience on the Roadie - it was definitely the bike for me (nearly no off-road, I'm just realistic, if you think 90 to 10%, do a real calculation and most people will find that they'll do 98 to 2% ratio, if at all).

Sure, there are certainly some people here for whom the XC is the better technical choice. But those are the minority. The better feeling choice? I guess that's up to the individual here. And motorcycles aren't the most logical choice in transportation anyways. So go with what you like, not what others tell you is better for anything.
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:00 AM   #13297
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I don't get all the fuss about 21" front wheel. They have SuperMoto races with 21" fronts mounted. A good rider with a 21" front can run circles around an a average rider with a 17".
If you feel like the 21" front is holding you back, then you should be riding on a track. I rode all over Deals Gap with knobbies on my XC & never got passed by anybody. I was able to stay with sportbikes no problem. I've always been the kind of rider that adjust my style to accommodate whatever bike/conditions I'm riding. People nowadays are way to spoiled.
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:01 AM   #13298
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Originally Posted by cug View Post
In my opinion, the XC will be slightly better in loose stuff where the big spoked front wheel helps, the Roadie will be better in tight street riding where less rotating mass from the smaller (front) and lighter wheels and the better street rubber helps.
I'd be interested in seeing an actual weight comparison between the two. The (slightly) smaller front wheel will make a difference in handling, but I would wager that the different suspension geometry makes a much more significant difference.
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:46 AM   #13299
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A good rider with a 21" front can run circles around an a average rider with a 17".
Comparing apples to oranges, are we?
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:47 AM   #13300
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I'm one of those people who actually rides the XC off-pavement -- about one fourth of the three thousand miles I've put on mine. Another fourth has been on extremely twisty pavement.

I also have a Hypermotard so I know about street tires and quick steering. I would say, yes, the steering is quicker on 17" wheels, but no, it doesn't matter on the street. Even on the tightest twisties I can flip the 21" wheel as fast as I need to for peg-dragging speeds. It may feel weird, but once you are used to it, it will not slow you down.

That said, nothing changes the fact that you can plug a tubeless tire.
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:50 AM   #13301
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Originally Posted by helotaxi View Post
I'd be interested in seeing an actual weight comparison between the two. The (slightly) smaller front wheel will make a difference in handling, but I would wager that the different suspension geometry makes a much more significant difference.
As far as I understand the different geometry is to just compensate for the larger wheel. Btw: no problem in dropping the front of the XC a bit more to make it more aggressive, or raising the rear of the Roadie to do the same.

It's still that a 21" wheel / tire will not give you the handling of a 19" wheel / tire combination. There is not much you can do about that other than putting different wheels on.
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:47 AM   #13302
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Originally Posted by browneye View Post
Is the road model significantly better for road than the XC? I'm still trying to decide which model to buy. I expect 90/10 for road. And I want a really good road bike for 2 up touring. If either is superior for that then that is the way I would go. I keep thinking I should be going with GS or Tenere for 2-up, but I really like the lightweight and handling of the Tiger, not to mention it costs a lot less. Power wise I know it will be fine.

I'm always skeptical about owners of XC's that say how great they are in the twisties but admit they've never been on a sportbike. And likewise, how good they are offroad when admittedly they have very little dirt experience.

In just a spin around the block I found the XC to have slower turn in than the roadie. I can imagine a series of sweepers would have you struggling with getting the bike to lay over and turn. I'm not real excited about the wide bars either.

There are too many owners that have bought the wrong model and want to change. I don't want to be one of them.

Have you ridden both models to compare? That you have significant road experience lends credence to your opinion. Thanks!
If a road bike for 2 up touring is your primary decision point between these two adventure bikes (because Triumph has better road bikes for 2 up touring than the Tigers), I think the XC is going to be the winner.

I have ridden both on-road and off-road and while the F diameter does affect turn in the difference is insignificant. Your entry speed needs to be slightly lower or more accurately you want to get more weight to the front when you turn in, but through the rest of the turn they are pretty much the same.

The primary reason many feel the XC is as competent on the road is primarily because the suspension itself is better on the XC - everyone who understands the interplay of the components and handling, attributes the similarity between the two on the road to the suspension of the XC overcoming the F diameters.

For 2 up touring as ridden off the showroom floor I believe the XC would be the better choice even for a 90/10 usage. In a 2 up situation even on the road and in twisties the better suspension is going to matter much more than a 19 vs 21 F diameter. I just can't imagine in a 2 up situation on twisties trying to find the difference in turn in between the two different diameter F wheels. Unless your pillion wants you to be much more aggressive than any I have had or known.

If you are willing to improve the suspension then the difference in F diameter will become more apparent.

I think the choosing of a bike for 2 up on the road is a different decision than a bike for twisties.

I have to say for 2 up touring at a 90/10 usage, I am not sure why anyone would pick an adventure bike. Any bike can handle 90/10, you don't need an adventure bike for that.

Quote:
And I want a really good road bike for 2 up touring. If either is superior for that then that is the way I would go.
Get the Trophy SE or the Sprint GT, I think you would be much happier.
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Old 06-29-2012, 12:11 PM   #13303
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Originally Posted by Rob Dirt View Post
I don't get all the fuss about 21" front wheel. They have SuperMoto races with 21" fronts mounted. A good rider with a 21" front can run circles around an a average rider with a 17".
If you feel like the 21" front is holding you back, then you should be riding on a track. I rode all over Deals Gap with knobbies on my XC & never got passed by anybody. I was able to stay with sportbikes no problem. I've always been the kind of rider that adjust my style to accommodate whatever bike/conditions I'm riding. People nowadays are way to spoiled.
You just proved that it's really all about the rider. I like my XC because it does all I want a bike to do. The limitation is me, not the bike. I've never scraped a peg. Is that the bike or the rider? Not sure wheel size has anything to do with anything. Rossi could beat me through deals gap on a Ural with a flat, with me on an R1
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Old 06-29-2012, 01:17 PM   #13304
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You just proved that it's really all about the rider. I like my XC because it does all I want a bike to do. The limitation is me, not the bike. I've never scraped a peg. Is that the bike or the rider? Not sure wheel size has anything to do with anything. Rossi could beat me through deals gap on a Ural with a flat, with me on an R1
That's the best thing said so far on the continuing debate, especially the Rossi comment, laughed out loud at that one, thanks.

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Old 06-29-2012, 01:17 PM   #13305
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Hey all - does anybody know how much the normal centerstand raises the rear wheel off the ground on a Roadie?

cug screwed with this post 06-29-2012 at 01:21 PM Reason: Added clarification: rear wheel
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