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Old 07-19-2012, 11:41 AM   #13561
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Originally Posted by E-town dirt dude View Post
How many tubes did you use, and what did you use to cover the spokes? Do you have any pics of the valve stem area and how the stem is installed?
I used about 5/8 of the tube. Probably could have been a little more economical (every time I set the caulking gun down some would "dribble" out of the end).

The spoke covers were nothing more than those round price stickers. Just enough to keep the sealant from totally surrounding the spoke nipple. Vinyl tape would work fine if you felt like cutting a bunch of little pieces.

I slightly enlarged the valve hole (maybe 1/32") to allow the stepped rubber washer to better seat. I happened to have a couple straight stems on hand- if I had it to do over I would go with a 90 degree offset stem.

And a homemade template that road on the inside lips of the rim as it rotated to ensure uniform sealant depth.

All in all, if you can mount and remove a tire you can easily do this project.

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Old 07-19-2012, 01:10 PM   #13562
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Caulkng gun

For any tube type caulk or sealant in a manual type caulking gun, if you pop the ratcheting slider loose to remove the pressure as you set it down, very little material will keep flowing. An old boat builders trick.


EDIT: BTW, 5200 is also available in black....what I would use.



EDIT 2: James Town Dist has 5200 in white for $12, black for $15: http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...eyword=3m_5200
Hump-Depot has it too but only in white. West Marine and Walmart too but more money. West marine has all the colors, wood colors.

3M also makes a 4200 but I can't remember the differences. Might be worth a look. Probably similar, and a couple of bucks cheaper.
There are other marine sealants that may also be suitable, like sikaflex, boatlife, etc. Since 5200 has been demontrably effective it's an easy choice.


EDIT 3: I got curious and looked up specs. Something to note, and I remember now, 5200 can be very slow to cure. The 3M site says, "tack free in 48 hours, cures in 7-14 days. Based on that I would let it cure for at least a week before reassembly. It can skin over and still be gooey inside.

There is also a 'fast-cure' 5200 in white only. Similar in strength but curing time similar to the 4200 next:

4200 is also a polyurethane sealant but faster cure, tack free in 1-2 hours, cured in 48. It's not quite as strong, designed for easier disassembly of marine parts. Since we're not looking for strength here, but sealing, I'm thinking this is probably a better bet. Also comes white or black.

Here's 3M's data sheet on all of their marine sealants: http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=66666UF6EVsSyXTtMXfXnXfXEVtQE Vs6EVs6EVs6E666666--&fn=60-4400-5507-1.pdf
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browneye screwed with this post 07-19-2012 at 01:30 PM
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:29 PM   #13563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by browneye View Post
For any tube type caulk or sealant in a manual type caulking gun, if you pop the ratcheting slider loose to remove the pressure as you set it down, very little material will keep flowing. An old boat builders trick.


EDIT: BTW, 5200 is also available in black....what I would use.



EDIT 2: James Town Dist has 5200 in white for $12, black for $15: http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...eyword=3m_5200
Hump-Depot has it too but only in white. West Marine and Walmart too but more money. West marine has all the colors, wood colors.

3M also makes a 4200 but I can't remember the differences. Might be worth a look. Probably similar, and a couple of bucks cheaper.
There are other marine sealants that may also be suitable, like sikaflex, boatlife, etc. Since 5200 has been demontrably effective it's an easy choice.
Yeah I use the "take the pressure off" technique. Still flowed out slowly. No big loss.

Home Depot is right down the road so white was my most convenient choice- $11.48
I was careful and neat and still some will end up on wheel where you don't want it- white is easier to spot on black wheel for cleanup and only you know what color it is after the tire goes on.

If you're the impatient type, the fast cure is supposed to be cured and ready to go in 4hrs. Get it at West Marine (I waited 60hrs.) Temperature and humidity do affect cure rate.
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:59 PM   #13564
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Originally Posted by cyclingtom View Post
For those XC riders that aren't particularly fond of tubed tires this is a little project that doesn't require too much effort and results in a tire that can (usually) be easily plugged roadside. There's a fair amount of info on spoke sealing for those curious types.

Usual disclaimer for project like this: Preform at your own risk.

Rear has a "safety lip" on the wheel. Let me tell ya, this would be a real bitch to break the bead trail-side with a sidestand.



Scuff the surface up and clean with non-alcohol solvent



Cover the spokes in case a future adjustment is needed and insert proper tubeless valve stem.



Cover evenly with, in this case, 3M 5200 sealant.




Allow product to cure. They have a regular and a Fast Cure 5200. If I do this again it'll be with the Fast Cure.
Install tire, balance, submerge in tub to check for tiny leaks, and ride.





Several rides and all is well.
If the front wheel had "safety lips" I would be sealing that one too, but most of my punctures have been on the rear so hopefully the front won't need an in the field fix....
awesome! I want to do this! let us know how it holds up. Thanks in advance!
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Old 07-19-2012, 02:21 PM   #13565
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awesome! let us know how it holds up.
+1. The real test is a long ride, like 250 miles. It wouldn't hurt to hit some potholes, curbs, or something similar.
The only reason I say that is because I've read about other people trying this & during a ride it failed. I'm sure they didn't use your technique or 5200, but you never know. Please give us an update as you put miles on.
The way my luck is I'd brake a spoke the first ride.
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Old 07-19-2012, 02:24 PM   #13566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclingtom View Post
Yeah I use the "take the pressure off" technique. Still flowed out slowly. No big loss.

Home Depot is right down the road so white was my most convenient choice- $11.48
I was careful and neat and still some will end up on wheel where you don't want it- white is easier to spot on black wheel for cleanup and only you know what color it is after the tire goes on.

If you're the impatient type, the fast cure is supposed to be cured and ready to go in 4hrs. Get it at West Marine (I waited 60hrs.) Temperature and humidity do affect cure rate.
All good logic!

So the rear has the safety bead for tubeless but the front doesn't?

I was going to ask Woody's (he's got a thread on ADV) if they have a 2.5 front for tubeless. I think it's an odd size we have on the XC. I thought I saw it mentioned that it was one of the reasons for good handling on road as it spread the tire out a little.

Quick browse on the woody site, looks like they do F8's for about $1600-$1900. Ouch. Maybe they have a front rim.


EDIT: Exact questions asked on woody's thread, end of page 143 and beginning of 144: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145899&highlight=tubeless&page=143

Readers digest is that there is no 21" front with a safety bead. They do have a 19 though and that's what they recommend. Rear is fine. Both rims are soft.
Tubeless not favored for the front anyway - any ding and bend and poof, instant flat. Seems your set up is the hot ticket - tubeless rear and leave the front with a tube.
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Old 07-19-2012, 06:55 PM   #13567
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Originally Posted by fbj913 View Post
awesome! I want to do this! let us know how it holds up. Thanks in advance!
+1,000. Curious how well it holds up over time and if it develops a slow leak
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:53 PM   #13568
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3.) You can't have too much light.
This is all that needs to be said. During the day or around town, the stock headlights are fine- when I'm out after dark in deer country and no other vehicles to blind, there is NO SUCH THING as "too bright".
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Old 07-19-2012, 11:17 PM   #13569
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... There's a fair amount of info on spoke sealing for those curious types.
It looks like a great idea, I hope it holds up for you.

I'm certainly no expert, but it just seems like the constant centrifugal forces trying to throw the material off would be considerable.

Just curious if you know of others that have done this modification and perhaps if they've already put tens of thousand of miles on it without leaking?
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Old 07-20-2012, 07:14 AM   #13570
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Tying the spokes

Do we need to zip tie the spokes together on the xc. my Yammie XT was prone to breaking the spokes and needed to prevent the broken spoke from puncturing the tube
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:37 AM   #13571
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Hi all,
So due to a fun-times impact that bent both wheels on my Tiger 800 roadie, I'm getting new wheels and tires from the insurance company. Before I go out and buy the stock Pirelli Scorpion Trail tires to replace the same, I just wanted to see if anyone has any recommendations on other tires for this bike.

Considerations: I ride probably 90% street and the other 10% is generally hard-packed dirt or gravel, i.e. I'm not doing any crazy off-road stuff with this bike. Also I ride year round and in all weather so a tire that offers good cold grip and good wet grip would be a good one for me. Also for me confident & secure handling > long tire life.

I don't really have much in the way of complaints with the stock tires but just checking to see if there's something better out there for the street.

Thanks!

EDIT: Looks like some contenders could be:
Metzeler Tourance
Michelin Anakee 2
Avon Distanzia
Continental TrailAttack
Dunlop TrailMax

Any comments? They all seem to have good reviews online.
There is also a great thread here on ADV singing the holy praises of the Conti TrailAttack. Not as much info that I can find here about the Dunlop. TrailAttack sounds like a good tire.
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:39 AM   #13572
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For pure road Dunlop RoadSmart. For mixed Dunlop TrailMax
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:56 AM   #13573
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For pure road Dunlop RoadSmart. For mixed Dunlop TrailMax
It doesn't appear that the RoadSmart comes in the Tiger 800's front size, so I guess that makes that decision easy.
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Old 07-20-2012, 11:17 AM   #13574
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I've run several sets of the Trail Attack as well as the Road Attack (and RA 2); not much difference IMO. Very well mannered on pavement (wet and dry) and just barely adequate off....
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Old 07-20-2012, 12:00 PM   #13575
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Hi all,
So due to a fun-times impact that bent both wheels on my Tiger 800 roadie, I'm getting new wheels and tires from the insurance company. Before I go out and buy the stock Pirelli Scorpion Trail tires to replace the same, .....
I've been looking around as well and like you don't have much to complain about the stock tires with the exception that the rear seemed to square off pretty quickly.

Ruled out the Contis due to cost.
Ruled out the anakee2 due to it being reported as loud
Leaning towards the tourance or dunlop or the scorpions again. They all seem good.
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