ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Fluff > Shiny things
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 7 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 02-27-2013, 09:00 PM   #1
Dysco OP
caddis muncher
 
Dysco's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Salida, CO
Oddometer: 15,925
Hunting dogs... Where to start?

I've wanted a hunting dog for years, and we're finally remotely near the place where I can think about getting one.... this summer. Last season I hunted ducks and geese 70+ days. To do this, I sometimes got just 30 minutes of shooting light before going to work at 8am, got out on my lunch breaks, left early for the day to hit closing light, and made the most of the weekends while working overtime and getting ready for the baby. I averaged less than a bird a day, but that never seemed that important. I also tagged along on a trip to North Dakota and got the locals treatment. As a result, I'm never going to get over pheasant hunting and I have a whole new respect for pointing breeds.

Currently I hunt when I can with an older rescue lab owned by a friend. He's not perfect, but he's awesome in the river. When a duck in the current can move faster than I can walk, it gets entertaining when one falls downstream unless you've got a dog. He's mostly a liability jump-hunting because his excitement is generally uncontrollable, and his hips are too bad for pheasant. What I've learned is that, even when your dog bolts to spook 30 mallards off of a ditch well out of range, it's more fun to hunt with him than without him. I also had the opportunity to hunt ducks with a very talented lab trained for pheasant, and she is great to hunt with, but isn't my dog. Hunting as much as I do dictates that I stop borrowing dogs as soon as possible to simplify my hunting trips and minimize strain on friendships.

The pheasant lab was supposed to have a litter sometime in the spring, but there was drama with the pairing, and it's not likely that it was successful, except to earn the male a few scars. That's probably my cheapest option for a dog. After that I have no real connections to anyone breeding dogs, and I'm generally far from any concentration of real working dogs being up in the mountains. I have been researching breeds and training for about 6 years, so I have a generally good idea of what I want, and I can find breeders in the region on the internet, but I'm pretty leery of sending off a significant amount of money when I have little knowledge of how to rate a breeder.

If I could have any breed, a wirehaired pointing griffon would be it, with a lab as a close second; even if it would point pheasant instead of flush. I know WPGs can get expensive, and I don't know if I can swing even the cheapest one. Even lab pups can be pretty expensive. Rescue dogs seem pretty broken when I see the ads, and I'd rather start with a young pup because of the baby.

So... Let's talk hunting dogs. How do I know what I'm getting into with a breeder? What's the bare minimum of shots and tests that are included with the dog? How did it work for anyone else?
Dysco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 09:11 PM   #2
kenny61
Crazy Idiot
 
kenny61's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Romaniacs 2019
Oddometer: 24,097
Since expensive is a realtive term, what dollar amount could you afford?
__________________
On the plains of hesitation lie the blackened bones of countless millions who at the dawn of victory lay down to rest, and in resting died. The only thing that comes to those who wait is old age. Too many dreams.... Not enough time. Not Scared of dying. Not scared of living. Just scared of the pain that separates the two...
kenny61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 09:44 PM   #3
Dysco OP
caddis muncher
 
Dysco's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Salida, CO
Oddometer: 15,925
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny61 View Post
Since expensive is a realtive term, what dollar amount could you afford?
Anything over $1,000 is pretty uncomfortable for me, but I know that's in the ballpark for the breed.

I don't have a strong desire to breed dogs at this point, I just want a healthy companion who's great with my kid, and can't wait to jump in the truck when I grab my shotgun.
Dysco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 10:01 PM   #4
kenny61
Crazy Idiot
 
kenny61's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Romaniacs 2019
Oddometer: 24,097
I've got a Deutsch Kurzhaar which is a "German" German shorthair. Around here they are used for everything from woodcock to duck and from fox to deer tracking. they are equally at home in the water as they are in a grassy field.Imn Germany they are used to hunt wild boar as well. I'm sure some will disagree, this is the internet , But they are a really good do it all dog. The German breeding and testing system would make me feel safe buying a dog from any of the registered breeders in the system. $1,000 is about the going rate. Dont forget to add some training money into your budget if you have never trained a dog before.

http://www.adlerberg.com/

http://www.nadkc.org/

Whatever you do make sure you take the time to research the breed and breeder.

Thsi is my dogs first retrieve over fast moving water I shoudl have just shut up but i was nervous. DK's like labs have web paws so they are good swimmers sorry for the crappy cell phone vid



Here he is on point the hen is about 3 feet in front of him in the thick brush they camoflauge real well in it. Its really nice having a dog that wont break point. Gives you time to finish your coffee and load your gun




I'll be more than happy to discuss DK's with you if your interested but that is as far as my hunting dog knowledge goes
__________________
On the plains of hesitation lie the blackened bones of countless millions who at the dawn of victory lay down to rest, and in resting died. The only thing that comes to those who wait is old age. Too many dreams.... Not enough time. Not Scared of dying. Not scared of living. Just scared of the pain that separates the two...
kenny61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 10:17 PM   #5
kenny61
Crazy Idiot
 
kenny61's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Romaniacs 2019
Oddometer: 24,097
some more












__________________
On the plains of hesitation lie the blackened bones of countless millions who at the dawn of victory lay down to rest, and in resting died. The only thing that comes to those who wait is old age. Too many dreams.... Not enough time. Not Scared of dying. Not scared of living. Just scared of the pain that separates the two...
kenny61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 04:30 AM   #6
The_Commander
The Man.
 
The_Commander's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Cumberland Mountains
Oddometer: 6,000
GSP hunt like wild. I found an abandoned GSP outside Aberdeen (which became her name) who out hunted labs, spaniels and other pointer varietys. I miss her. Sweetest dog too.
The_Commander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 04:53 AM   #7
rd1900
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Detroit
Oddometer: 168
Is this going to be a house/family dog as well as a hunting dog? I assume so.

I have an expensive breeder lab and a rescue lab. We got the breeder lab puppy (female) at the same time my 5 year old daughter was born. They were babies together and have grown up together, my daughter loves that dog like crazy and the dog is so sweet and gentle. Temperament with the kids (2 girls) was a super important consideration, so that part of a lab was a big selling point. On the hunting side, what that dogs just knows how to do is pretty amazing.

The rescue lab (male) we got about 3 years ago, and had some anxiety issues (still does a bit), and some mild temperment issues (a little growling at the kids and cat). The temperament issues were fixed fast (he knows where he stands in the family hierarchy), and he is now every bit as gentle as expensive dog. He doesn't seem to be as natural in the field as the other dog, but is still pretty good.

They both shed like crazy, both learn very fast (the kids were having a hard time calling them into the house when they went out to the bathroom, we trained them to come to a cheap plastic whistle the kids can blow, it took about 5 minutes), and the temperament is ideal for the kids (the cat dominates both dogs, she walks into their room while they are eating and they step back so the cat can eat their food).

So, long story short, you don't need to spend a fortune for a great dog, and if you get a lab I hope you enjoy vacuuming. And don't get one of those ridiculously over-bred 120lb. huge labs, get one that is what it is supposed to be.
rd1900 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 04:56 AM   #8
Bokrijder
Soyez sans que peur
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Mile north of Turkey Point light house
Oddometer: 313
Dysco,

A Lab is probably the dog for you. There's good reason the breed is so popular, it's a Jack of all trades and pretty good at many.
Selecting a breeder - here's where you must be careful and it applies to any breed which becomes popular as a pet or in the ring --- you must buy from a breeder breeding to hunting qualities. Otherwise you most likely will pay way way too much for a froo froo couch potato.
Good solid proven hunting stock is all you need. Talk to other folks hunting the chosen breed, folks who have been with the breed for a bit, their dogs came from somewhere, ask them. Go visit breeders, get to know your shortlist of possible kennels. No puppy mills here - the breeder will most likely be sizing you up as much as you are sizing him up. Many breeders will pass on a sale if they are not comfortable with the placement.
Cost -- operating a proper clean decent kennel, feeding quality food, proper medical attention, etc. is incredibly expensive, the guys are not getting rich for sure !!
What is a shame is to see puppy mill product going for even more money. Shame for the dogs and shame for the new owner, expecting good hunting stock.

Not sure that you should insist on a pointing dog - yes they are beautiful to see in action (four Brittanies here) but ideally birds best hunted with a pointing breed tend to hold. Pheasants, as least wild pheasants, can be runners. Can be a dilemma for the dog - he's trained to point and hold, bird moves off, he will realize this, if the dog could talk he'd be saying, " Hey dude, I'm pointing air here, birds gone." So the dog has to reset. Now you and the dog have to work out in your training program, when to reset, breaking point or reseting, lot of confusing stuff for a green dog. Dogs do not like confusing situations during the training process.
One important thing to think about with the duck hunting is water temperature.
Some breeds can tolerate cold water, others not.

Good luck, you're gonna have fun,

Bokrijder
__________________
KTM525EXC
KLR650
Bokrijder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 05:35 AM   #9
dozer
Gnarly Adventurer
 
dozer's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: slc ut
Oddometer: 337
One more vote for a Lab
I’ve owned labs for 20 years
2 of my Labs have had a natural pointing ability.
While not trained as pointers, their natural instinct at pointing has been most enjoyable while hunt upland birds, as it slows them down and allows me a little additional time before the birds jump.
Labs make great hunting dogs, and IMHO even better family dogs, all of my Labs have been great with children from infants to teenagers.
dozer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 05:41 AM   #10
rdtrvlr
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Oddometer: 311
I had 2 brittanies for years great hunters and great family dogs. very smart dogs
rdtrvlr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 05:42 AM   #11
Grreatdog
Beastly Adventurer
 
Grreatdog's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Annapolis, MD
Oddometer: 10,081
Like Dozer said, my first Golden was also a born pointer. I never was much into water fowl hunting since I spent all week in the swamps and marshes for my job. Though I did train the dog for it. But with some training my Golden also picked up upland bird hunting like he was born for it. The guy I hunted with had a little black lab and she was equally good at it. Both were rescues that we got around one year old. Retrievers are pretty versatile and instinctive hunters especially if you take the time to train them.
__________________
640E, MXC200, XT200
Grreatdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 06:33 AM   #12
Dysco OP
caddis muncher
 
Dysco's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Salida, CO
Oddometer: 15,925
Quote:
Originally Posted by dozer View Post
2 of my Labs have had a natural pointing ability.
While not trained as pointers, their natural instinct at pointing has been most enjoyable while hunt upland birds, as it slows them down and allows me a little additional time before the birds jump.
That time is nice for me to have. I'm still fairly young, but I have the back of an old man, and it's nice to get planted before things start happening.
Dysco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 06:46 AM   #13
Dysco OP
caddis muncher
 
Dysco's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Salida, CO
Oddometer: 15,925
This is Max, the older dog that I borrow regularly. He has a bed next to our woodstove and food and water dishes in the kitchen. I hunt with him (for short intervals) down to 10F. On colder mornings I had to distract him with food and sneak out of the house. Then he'd stalk me for the rest of the day once I got home.



Working with Max, I know exactly what I want out of my own dog... mostly because he has some terrible habits. We've lost a total of 2 birds downriver with Max. Both ended up under the ice and were ungettable. He cost me a bunch of birds this season, though, and those are the things I want to "fix" with my dog. I don't have a problem with labs at all, I'm just not sure how to approach getting a dog from a breeder, let alone getting the right dog from a breeder.
Dysco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 07:58 AM   #14
DC950
Microadventurer
 
DC950's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Memphis, Motorcycle Purgatory
Oddometer: 2,755
the best bird dogs I've ever known have been Vizslas. They'll do anything but don't have the coat for your climate.

You definitely need a lab. I think your best bet is to talk to as many hunters as possible and tell them to put the word out for you. Something will turn up soon enough. There really does seem to be a difference between dogs bred to hunt and dogs bred for field trials, much less bred to ride around in the back of SUVs.

I wouldn't even think of training an adult dog to hunt that I didn't raise and at least have taught him how to learn when he was a pup. Your chances of success are so much better with a puppy.

I'm sure you already know this, but this is what you need to train your lab. Wolters says to start at 7 weeks. I've trained a few dogs using his books:

http://www.amazon.com/Water-Dog-Revo...ichard+wolters
__________________
God. Family. Motorcycles. Guns. Music. Books. Dogs. Beer. Baseball. Work. That about covers it.


DC950 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 08:22 AM   #15
pilot
Slacker Moderator
 
pilot's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Kansas City
Oddometer: 31,072
Whatever dog you get, be sure you get it from a breeder that actually hunts. Labs, like Airedales, have suffered tremendously from puppy mills and indiscriminate breeding. Look for a forum for hunters with the breed of dog you are interested in. Check references. Some dogs with poor breeding can overcome it somewhat with intensive training, but it is far easier to start with a dog with some natural ability.

If you are interested in ever hunting anything other than birds, I would suggest an Airedale from a good hunting breeder. They can and do hunt just about anything. Just beware of the dreaded show dogs. They make great family pets, but that's about it.
__________________
The other 10% are sociopaths , serial killers and KLR riders. You wont get much sympathy from them.
-Furious D
pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 12:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014