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Old 08-07-2010, 10:10 PM   #16
Albie
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Originally Posted by JimC
rwamf and I have had this ongoing discussion about the Delorme GPS's since they were first released and in my opinion nothing has changed much in the last 5 years or so except the GPS's from both manufacturers have improved significantly.

Here is my take and I have owned every model of Delorme GPS and at least 6 or 8 models of the Garmin handhelds.

Delorme
Without a doubt the best mapping package in the business with the worst PC interface in the business. The track/map drawing capabilities are unmatched. If the most important function of your GPS is to be a catalog of hundreds and hundreds of tracks you save and you need them all loaded on your GPS at one time then the Delorme is the GPS for you. Without a doubt the PN60 is the best of the Delorme GPSís. If you are going to buy a Delorme do yourself a favor and save up until you can afford the 60, it is worth the extra money. The integrated Spot system is another game changer and the ability to send text messages from the middle of no where for the price of a Spot subscription was unthinkable just a couple of years ago. When it is delivered (and if it works) this functionality will make the Delorme unique in the industry.

Other than the above the Delormes suck when compared to the Garmins. The Find capability and the routing functions are a joke, really. The routing is so bad and so slow that I just donít use it for anything. I guess if I was in the middle of nowhere with no maps and no local knowledge I would use it but that would be about it.

Garmin
While not the world class mapping package of Delorme, Garmin is not far behind. The new 62/78 GPSís allow you to store 200 tracks of 10,000 points each which is enough for all but .001% of the ADV riders out there. The Mapsource software is certainly not as powerful as the Delorme Topo Software but I can teach you how to use it in about 3 minutes and you will remember how to use it the next time you go to create a route or a track. I never felt the old 60/76 track handling capabilities were a significant weakness so the new capabilities remove any limitations.

For all other GPS functions the Garmin is superior to the Delorme. The find function, routing, etc., etc. are so much faster and accurate on the Garmins that there is no comparision.

So I guess you can tell where this is headed. As an all around, do it all GPS the new Garmin 62/78 units would be my first choice. They are easy to use, intuitive to operate, lightning fast, have decent, easy to use PC software and now have an ever expanding universe of downloadable maps (both free and for a fee) which means you can use them anywhere in the world.

The Delorme GPSís are kings of the niches they focus on, outstanding track building software and maps and integrated Spot communications. If these are critical to you than the Delormes are an easy choice.

My personal experience is that 90% of the people on this forum would be happier and better served with a Garmin GPS.

Jim in Sacramento

Just curious, have you had a chance to really play around with any of the newer Garmin models or even the older units with the new chipsets? Because from my experience, crappy hardware, buggy software, and clueless support has completely turned me off to Garmin. What's critical to me is accuracy and the confidence that in a dire situation the unit is going to get me where I need to go. Garmin doesn't meet those requirements for me. Guess I'll see how a niche unit compares in those requirements.
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Old 08-07-2010, 11:45 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Albie
Just curious, have you had a chance to really play around with any of the newer Garmin models or even the older units with the new chipsets?
Colorado, Oregon, Etrex HCx, Nuvi 500 and 78S. I never had any more issues with accuracy than with any of the other manufacturers GPS's. Accuracy was the least of my issues. Hardware reliabilty was my biggest issue with the Colorado and Oregon. My units would constantly turn themselves of for no reason, I got to the point that I would not use the Colorado or Oregon on the bikes, auto only. I was down to the Etrex HCx as my main bike GPS (which I believe is one of the most underated GPS's out there) until the 78 came along. I love both the Colorado and Oregon GPS"s they just would not stand up to the off road abuse.

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Old 08-08-2010, 07:38 AM   #18
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Colorado, Oregon, Etrex HCx, Nuvi 500 and 78S. I never had any more issues with accuracy than with any of the other manufacturers GPS's. Accuracy was the least of my issues. Hardware reliabilty was my biggest issue with the Colorado and Oregon. My units would constantly turn themselves of for no reason, I got to the point that I would not use the Colorado or Oregon on the bikes, auto only. I was down to the Etrex HCx as my main bike GPS (which I believe is one of the most underated GPS's out there) until the 78 came along. I love both the Colorado and Oregon GPS"s they just would not stand up to the off road abuse.

Jim in Sacramento

I guess I should have used a different term then accuracy. I meant an accurate route calculation. Right now, I have 3 GPS's. a ZUMO 550, 76cx, and a Nuvi 265. All 3 loaded with CN 2010.30. With the exact same route parameters and avoidances checked. I just enterin th etown i want to go to and let the GPS route it. All 3 come up with a different route. The ZUMO gives me a 741 mile route that actually takes me southwest before eventually heading northeast which is where the end waypoint is. The 76cx routes me somewhat better doing it in 445 miles, and the cheapo Nuvi does it in 336 miles which is also the way that Mapsource calculates the route and from my opinion is probably the correct way given the parameters chosen. Unfortunately, the Nuvi would make a pretty poor choice for use on the bike.
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Old 08-08-2010, 11:10 PM   #19
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I guess I should have used a different term then accuracy. I meant an accurate route calculation.................
If routing is important to you and you are not happy with the Garmins don't even think about buying a Delorme.

How many possible combinations of routes do you think there are in getting to a city 350 miles away? I can almost always develop a better route than any of my GPS's can, which is why I do so for all my trips. Where I use routing is when I am lost or am looking for a particular address or business. In those cases I find the Garmins do a good job of getting me to my destination. If you are looking for a GPS to route you on trips of several hundred miles or more and come up with the ideal route I think you will be dissapointed more times than not no matter what GPS you use.

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Old 08-09-2010, 11:48 AM   #20
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If routing is important to you and you are not happy with the Garmins don't even think about buying a Delorme.

How many possible combinations of routes do you think there are in getting to a city 350 miles away? I can almost always develop a better route than any of my GPS's can, which is why I do so for all my trips. Where I use routing is when I am lost or am looking for a particular address or business. In those cases I find the Garmins do a good job of getting me to my destination. If you are looking for a GPS to route you on trips of several hundred miles or more and come up with the ideal route I think you will be dissapointed more times than not no matter what GPS you use.

Jim in Sacramento
So does the Delorme recalculate YOUR routes even when you tell it not to? Because my 76cx did. Doesn't matter how much better my routing is compared to what the unit comes up with, when I can't stop the unit from calculating it the way it wants to.
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:13 PM   #21
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So does the Delorme recalculate YOUR routes even when you tell it not to? Because my 76cx did. Doesn't matter how much better my routing is compared to what the unit comes up with, when I can't stop the unit from calculating it the way it wants to.
No, if you create a route on the PC in Topo, it will transfer as is, You can turn off the auto recalculate, or you can make a route in Topo, Copy the route to a track or Draw file and transfer that to display on the GPS. many options.
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Originally Posted by JimC
The routing is so bad and so slow that I just don’t use it for anything.
If routing is important to you and you are not happy with the Garmins don't even think about buying a Delorme.
and as far as the 60 being slow??? I do not see the routing as very slow, the few times I have used it, it is defiantly faster than my 40 was, the PN20 was SLOOOWWWW.
I just did a route from Carson City to a little shop in downtown Sacramento and it took 15 seconds to route, so to me that is plenty fast, and looking at the map it is the way I would go if I planned the route my self. I then just did a route from CC going through Ely, stopping in Moab and then to Silverton CO. and it took 30 seconds. so how fast are the new Garmins???
and for routing off road it works quite well, better than any Garmin I have seen.
May be road Routing is not it's strong point, they don't advertise it as such, but for offroad, it is pretty darn good.
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rwamf screwed with this post 08-09-2010 at 02:39 PM
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Old 08-09-2010, 02:29 PM   #22
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No, if you create a route on the PC in Topo, it will transfer as is, You can turn off the auto recalculate, or you can make a route in Topo, Copy the route to a track or Draw file and transfer that to display on the GPS. many options.
and as far as the 60 being slow??? I do not see the routing as very slow, the few times I have used it, it is defiantly faster than my 40 was, the PN20 was SLOOOWWWW.
I just did a route from Carson City to a little shop in downtown Sacramento and it took 15 seconds to route, so to me that is plenty fast, and looking at the map it is the way I would go if I planned the route my self. I then just did a route from CC going through Ely, stopping in Moab and then to Silverton CO. and it took 30 seconds. so how fast are the new Garmins???
and for routing off road it works quite well, better than any Garmin I have seen.
May be road Routing is not it's strong point, they don't advertise it as such, but for offroad, it is pretty darn good.
The Garmin is SUPPOSED to handle a route that way, but unfortunately thats not the case with many of their units these days.

When I was referring to the speed I was just talking about the screen refresh, i.e. when you zoom in or out. I never said the 60 was slow, it's as fast as any of the Garmins I own/owned. In fact it's faster then a lot of them. Just saying the 62 is faster, it's STUPID fast. Fastest one I've ever seen.
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Old 08-09-2010, 08:38 PM   #23
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........and as far as the 60 being slow??? I do not see the routing as very slow, the few times I have used it, it is defiantly faster than my 40 was, the PN20 was SLOOOWWWW............I then just did a route from CC going through Ely, stopping in Moab and then to Silverton CO. and it took 30 seconds. so how fast are the new Garmins???
Robert, you must get special souped up models from Delorme I just did a side by side test of the PN60 and the Garmin 78S, I created a route on the GPS's from Sacramento, to Carson City to Ely to Moab to Silverton, CO, selecting each route point by spelling the city name. I them selected go/navigate on each unit. From the time I hit enter until the first turn was displayed the time was Delorme PN 60 - 85 seconds, Garmin 78S -12 seconds. One could argue that 85 seconds is acceptable for such a long route but the problem I have is that this is also the amount of time it takes to recalculate a route if you miss a turn or decide to take a short cut not on the route. With my Garmin units the recalculation is blazingly fast, often times the route is recalculated before I realize I missed a turn. With the Delorme units I often drive 2 or 3 miles, or more, before the recalculation is finished. I find this unacceptable and is the main reason why I feel the routing on the Delorme units is so weak.

One point you make is correct, routing is not a strong point of the Delorme and they donít claim that it is. I also said that the Delorme is in a class by itself for sophisticated track building and cataloguing as well as the Spot capability. My point in making these posts is not to put down one GPS over another, but trying to get people matched up with the correct GPS. I believe that there are about 2% of the people on these forums who need or would use the track capabilities and mapping prowess of the Delorme GPSís and only about half of these would spend the time to learn how to actually use the software. To get these capabilities you give up a lot of things that Garmin units have as strengths.

Having owned many Delorme and Garmin GPSís I just believe that the majority of the people on these forums would be happier with the Garmin units and particularly with the new 78S. That said the new Delorme PN-60 is a huge leap forward in speed and usability from the previous PN models. People really need to ask themselves what they are going to use a GPS for and then go down to REI or find someone who has the model they are looking at and play with it for an extended period of time. I donít know if they still offer it, but one great service Delorme provided was a 30 day no questions asked, money back guarantee if you bought the GPS from them. I know I used it a few times. Well worth the extra you paid buying directly from them.

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Old 08-09-2010, 08:54 PM   #24
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One could argue that 85 seconds is acceptable for such a long route but the problem I have is that this is also the amount of time it takes to recalculate a route if you miss a turn or decide to take a short cut not on the route. With my Garmin units the recalculation is blazingly fast, often times the route is recalculated before I realize I missed a turn.
I agree, I don't like the sound of that. Funny, this was one of my biggest gripes about the 478 compared to my ZUMO 550. The ZUMO was much faster at recalculating routes then the 478. The 478 was so slow in fact as you described I'd already be passed the turn it wanted me to make after the recalc. So not all the Garmins, including the more recent ones are all that fast either. Have to take each one on a model by model basis. Like I said just playing around with the 62S in the store I was really impressed at the screen redraw rate. Too bad I have absolutely no faith that the unit will work correctly.
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Old 08-09-2010, 10:23 PM   #25
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JimC one question? When are we going to get together for a ride?
My son Malcolm 'AKA Sonymalc' ran into you in Fernley awhile back,
Robert
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Old 08-09-2010, 10:34 PM   #26
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JimC one question? When are we going to get together for a ride?
My son Malcolm 'AKA Sonymalc' ran into you in Fernley awhile back,
Robert
Robert,
Let me know. Haven't been to Mt Pat or Huntoon this year. Also want to do lower Desert Creek before it gets closed signs. Also would like to see that 78C!
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:33 AM   #27
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JimC one question? When are we going to get together for a ride?
My son Malcolm 'AKA Sonymalc' ran into you in Fernley awhile back,
Robert
Malcom and I had a great conversation and I told him you were invited you to our weekend at Soldier Meadows, but I'm sure it was too short of notice for you. What a coincidence running into Sonymalc as I had enjoyed all his posts about his XChallenge. How long have we been talking about getting together for a ride? It's probably about time we do it.

When were were at Soldier Meadows in June some of the ATVr's were telling me about the area and lakes quite a ways north east of the ranch. They said it was some of the more spectaular scenery in the area. Maybe we can see if Jerry could find a few free days in his schedule and join us. Don't know if you are familiar with the area, but it is something I would like to explore.


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Old 08-10-2010, 10:12 AM   #28
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........So not all the Garmins, including the more recent ones are all that fast either. Have to take each one on a model by model basis. Like I said just playing around with the 62S in the store I was really impressed at the screen redraw rate. Too bad I have absolutely no faith that the unit will work correctly.
Eventually you have to buy what is available and live with it's short comings. If you are looking for a GPS to use on a dual sport bike exploring off road in a harsh environment I think you have a handful of choices. The Delorme PN60, the old Garmin 60/76/Etrex or the new 78S. None of them are perfect you and you have to learn to work with what they offer.

I've depended on GPS's to route me all over God's country since the GPS III was released by Garmin a long long time ago. I am so directionaly challanged that I would never have attempted some of the rides I did without a GPS. ramf is probably the only person I know who may have owned more GPS's than I have in the last 12 years, but the fact of the matter is that if the only GPS I was allowed to own for the rest of my life was my Etrex Legend I would be happy as could be because it will do everything I need a GPS to do to continue my explorations. None of my GPS's are perfect tools but they all do what I really need them to do.

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Old 08-10-2010, 12:05 PM   #29
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Funny you should mention your Legend. I just pulled my old eMap out of storage loaded up with Roads and Rec maps on a 8 Meg card.
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Old 08-10-2010, 01:24 PM   #30
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Funny you should mention your Legend. I just pulled my old eMap out of storage loaded up with Roads and Rec maps on a 8 Meg card.
+1

I think I had two of them with R&R until I finally moved up to 76C and that was only to get color. Still only use R&R in 76Cx.

First one was GPS12 not much to talk about, only thing I used on it was way points to try to find trails.
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