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Old 08-17-2010, 01:56 PM   #61
Lensgrinder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_White
I'm one of the machine shop guys, and nope I ain't gonna bust on him
over the price. I know how it is, folks coming in thinking your
time is worth nothing.

A little cut on a group buy might put me off the fence
though
I do value his time and ingenuity and I realize it costs.
Throwing wheel and kiln maybe not the best anology, but I understand what you are trying to say, and agree to a point. It does take time to R and D it but, He will make more money selling higher volume at smaller profit than smaller volume at a larger profit. I wish him good luck. Trying not to get flamed again.
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Old 08-17-2010, 03:38 PM   #62
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...no flamin' going down my friend...just flappin' the keys here.
Pottery analogy was all I could come up with in a pinch. O.K., I make pots, there, I've said it...but it is just for therapy.

I agree, there is more $$$ in volume.
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Old 08-17-2010, 06:55 PM   #63
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I'd be in for a group buy this winter if the pot was sweetened enough. Not asking for free, just a good, "middle of winter", "christmas kicked the crap out of my wallet", "here's an excuse to buy something you want" kinda sale. On the bright side, It would also give Lennie some income in a leaner part of the season. Also, just think of what a bunch of us are going to say and talk about after we get our group buy goodies installed and most, if not all of us are super satisfied with the price, service and product. If I dig up the books from one of my past bachelor degrees, I think they called that "word of mouth advertising" the cheapest and best form by far.

Look at the burst of business the EPMperf got on the steering stabilizers after I recommended a group buy. Everyone got a deal, everyone was happy and lot of guys looked at the thread (over 6000 views so far) that's some serious advertising and awareness. What was the cost? A slightly lowered gross margin - short term. Lots of extra business long term.
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Old 08-17-2010, 07:06 PM   #64
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i have them mounted on my 07, and i can tell you that 9 degrees is just enuf to notice, but it isnt anything near excessive.

They made an appreciable differnce in bringing the bike alive about 1000 rpm sooner. Im sure if you had the R and D resources, and could machine cams, then you could maybe do better, but i think lennie did pretty good with a part a wrench can change in an evening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BERNERBUDDY
"These high-end CNC machined sprockets will advance the cam timing 9 degrees."


Whoa!!! Nine degrees cam timing is a bunch. I guess that would alter the torque curve some. Although I don't know much about the boxer motors. it's hard for me to believe that Bmw would miss the cam timing by that much, Seems to me they would just put in a different cam. IMHO
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Old 08-17-2010, 09:11 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_White
I'm one of the machine shop guys, and nope I ain't gonna bust on him
over the price. I know how it is, folks coming in thinking your
time is worth nothing.

A little cut on a group buy might put me off the fence
though
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Old 08-17-2010, 09:15 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapid Dog
O.K., I make pot, there, I've said it...but it is just for therapy.
Rapid, is that a typ-O?
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Old 08-18-2010, 07:30 AM   #67
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Laugh

...oh, um, yes Serg, a typ-o, that's it...I make pot-tery!
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Old 08-18-2010, 05:34 PM   #68
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Wow this is interesting.

I keep busy with my building work for a day or two and there is much to read.

I am not here to sell but to actually participate in the board as my next purchase will be a R1200GS. I lost my R1100S in a failed business venture 5 years ago as it was my company vehicle and miss it terribly.

My source of income is not from Boxer Performance and Boxer Performance is only a way to bring 'smile on your dial' enjoyment to those who ride BMWs with the improvement my products make. While I will make some money from this, I am not dependant on sales to survive.

The price has nothing to do with research and development costs or manufacturing costs but all to do with dealer set pricing so that there is a margin for the dealer to make money.

I originally set the pricing at $200.00 per set direct sales, but whenever I try to bring on a reseller/dealer, we need to adjust pricing to allow for a reasonable profit for the reseller/dealer which is fair for the dealer with the effort they make to sell.

I have now decided to only sell direct because of this.

I dont mind a group buy if you guys are interested.

I have the latest batch of sprockets that have a minor issue with a hairline crack between the locating pin and the centre cam sprocket mounting hole due to the interference fit. If you guys in the know want to offer an opinion about the likelyhood of failure in use then speak up.

There are about 10 sets in service now and there are no reports of failure under operation as the clamping pressure of the retaining bolt and washer secures the sprocket so there is no movement that can cause and failure.

My manufacturer and heat treater are of the opinion that the 10 thou depth and Rockwell 61 hardness does not allow enough tollerance for the interference required for the fit of the locating pin.

I may just need to heat the sprockets and freeze the pins for assembly or as I have discussed with my manufacturer we devise another way to create the locating piece.

If they are serviceable, then I would accept a much lower price as I have 50 plus sets like this. If they are not considered serviceable by you guyd, then I will junk them as I now have a new batch on order that will be ready within 4 weeks.

I look forward to any and all responses and opinions.

Regards,

Lennie
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Old 08-18-2010, 07:54 PM   #69
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If you heated the sprockets to get them on the cams, they would be darn near impossible to remove if you were ever inclined to do so. The likelihood of removing them is pretty remote, but removal would be difficult. If a sprocket ever did fail, the engine of course would stop. At the least, a towing bill could be in order. At the worst, an entire vacation ruined.

These are not a trivial task to install. Personally I wouldn't risk it.
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:04 PM   #70
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he is talking about a little locating pin that is on the sprockets...
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:15 PM   #71
sbrownn
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Interference fit

If the tolerances for the interference fit are too tight I'm not sure how freezing and heating assembly procedures will necessarily resolve the issue. Sure it will make the parts easier to assemble and keep in place, but the resulting stresses from the interference fit will still be the same once the parts have reached an environmental temperature, so the sprocket may crack again anyway. Do you know for a fact that it is the assembly procedure that is cracking the sprocket?
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:37 PM   #72
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ive dealt with fits that required heat/cold manipulation in transmissionsand heavy equipment... usually thin rings going around more massive carrying parts... kind of the opposite of what u have going. but here is my observation/thought:

i would think the larger mass(and harder part i assume) will compress that tiny little pin more than the reverse....(which if it isnt softer it surely could be, there shouldnt be a lot of shear load on it, the bolt should bear that, at the torque specs im vaguely recalling).

i just looked at my take off sprockets, and (however they made thier nipple, hammering operation maybe?) there are no signs of side loading on the tit at all.
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Old 08-18-2010, 10:18 PM   #73
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I used to toy with vintage bikes that had pressed together crankshafts... to get the cheek off the pin required TONS of force on a hydraulic press. (I had one with a gauge that read tons). To replace still required the press on top of the heat shrinking process.

How much of an interference is it? Couldn't be that tough. If I was really worried I'd pull the pin out and dress down the gear end with a stone. I have a lathe, but you can do it with a drill press or even a hand held drill. Might have to pull the cam to get the pin out.... but thats only a few bolts & if the price is right, why not.

I don't think I would worry about the relief crack either.
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Old 08-18-2010, 11:15 PM   #74
lennie
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I have just spoken to my original machinist who drilled the locating hole and he has informed me he drilled then reamed the hole with a 3mm ream.

Makes sense as there is the chance that the 3 mm drill can drill undersize.

He has suggested a 3.05 mm hole so that after case hardening that the pin is still a push fit.

I have also discussed the current issue with the crack from the pin to the cam locating hole and he explained that the hole is at the end of the crack and it will not travel any further.

Makes sense as when a windscreen or plastic screen cracks you drill a hole at the end to stop the crack going any further.

If anyone wants to check this guy out visit www.epicycle.com.au. His name is Pete Smith and he used to run the Ducati Dealer Team in Australia race team in the 1990s.

Thanks for the feedback and input too.
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Old 08-18-2010, 11:45 PM   #75
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As far as fuel mileage is concerned, my brother reported much better fuel consumption on his R1150R after we fitted the sprockets, head porting, removed the cat and chipped it.

He found that one gear higher everywhere incuding top gear rollons for overtaking even two up helped out.

We also took a stock R1150RT and the guy ran the big bore headers, Staintune exhaust, sprockets, InDuct (large bore carbon intake), FIM chip (for the R1100R) and a K&N filter.

I rode the bike as the owner lived near my brother in Queensland whilst on a visit and after owning a much modified R1100S I was amazed at the mumbo this thing had. I have ridden the RT before and even two up with my son, the acceleration in the first 4 gears and then top gear roll ons was amazing.

He also reported one gear higher riding and much better fuel consumption.
As a side note, to date I have not had one pair returned.
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