Compact tractors

[P B G]

Originally Posted by jeep44

Buy an old Ford 8N, and use the money you would have needlessly spent on a new one to buy something else, like the tiller, blade,and bush hog that you will also need to buy.

I half agree and half disagree.

8N's lack a few things, live PTO's for one. And are geared poorly for mowing/tilling. They also are lacking when it comes to the front end loader department, not the most hydraulic capabilities built in.

Not that they are bad tractors, but they are not the most ideal for those tasks. Nor are most other older tractors pre live PTO.

But they are kind of fun tractors. I'd personally lean towards a more modern tractor is all.

[legion]

Originally Posted by P B G

I half agree and half disagree.

8N's are caveman tractors compared to what's out there now. They also like to have a couple hundred bucks tossed at 'em more often than I like. I've got a New Holland TC24D and love it. 3pt hitch, rear mount snow blower, FEL, Pevag chains, 4wd, diesel, filled rear tires, rear tires reversed for added width, etc.

That thing has done an amazing amount of work around here and never grumbled. I second the tractorbynet thing and have a couple of suggestions:

1) Don't put a blower on the front. You lose your FEL when you do.

2) Fill the rears and chain 'em. It's worthless on snow otherwise.

3) Buy the biggest engine within that tractor's frame size. You'll never run into a situation where you wish you had just a tad less power.

4) If you have steep property with trees know that the idea of wearing the seat belt needs to be pondered quite a bit. I don't wear mine and it's not an issue of being lazy. That said, don't sidehill with a compact. Kubotas might do it to some degree but I don't like those tiny tires.

A snort of WD-40 down the blower's chute will keep heavy snow from jamming up the blower's exhaust but higher RPM will be better than WD-40.

[jeep44]

This caveman has owned his 8N since 1988. It's a 1952 model. It has cost me a yearly oil change, and points and plugs every few years. That's it. It does everything I require of a tractor on my small acreage. I paid $2000 for it in '88, and I could get that for it today. If mine ever takes a dump so bad I can't fix it,which is very unlikely, I'll just get another one.

[2speed]

Originally Posted by P B G

I half agree and half disagree.

8N's lack a few things, live PTO's for one. And are geared poorly for mowing/tilling. They also are lacking when it comes to the front end loader department, not the most hydraulic capabilities built in.

Not that they are bad tractors, but they are not the most ideal for those tasks. Nor are most other older tractors pre live PTO.

But they are kind of fun tractors. I'd personally lean towards a more modern tractor is all.

Why is someone with less than 5 acres, that they don't actually farm, going to need a live PTO? How are they lacking in the loader department? Everyone I've seen has an engine driven pump.

[mngl1500]

Originally Posted by jeep44

This caveman has owned his 8N since 1988. It's a 1952 model. It has cost me a yearly oil change, and points and plugs every few years. That's it. It does everything I require of a tractor on my small acreage. I paid $2000 for it in '88, and I could get that for it today. If mine ever takes a dump so bad I can't fix it,which is very unlikely, I'll just get another one.

Had the 8N since 1978 and the 9N since 1986. Only thing ever down to either of them is oil changes and regular maintence, and the 8N needed new tires. Uneeded work including repainting them back to original colours and converting them to 12 volt.

[NHBill]

I like 8N's for the same reason that I like older cars, I can work on them myself.

That being said, when it came time to invest in a work horse for the property (16 Ac, about 1/2 in woods that I work for firewood and the other 1/2 a mix of fields, orchard, garden and lawn) I bought a 4WD JD3520. I like the extra HP, it'll still take all the implements that I need, including a belly mower, loader with a clamshell bucket, snow blade and forks, backhoe, york rake and a brush hog and in 5 years, it's only needed fuel, oil and filters.

I think that the first thing that you need to do is make sure that the machine you are looking at, is able to do what you want, and be realistic about your needs! The second thing that you need to do (and it is as important as part one) is to look at the local dealers. The machine will break down, it will need parts, you will want more "toys" to use . If the local dealer support is no good, even the best machine will suck (Really Loudly)!

I'll echo the TractorByNet site too. Got a lot of great feedback and advice over there!

Good luck!

Bill

[FPGT72]

I have an 8N as well, and it is a great little tractor, the only problem with a pull behind mower is it is a little harder to move around in trees and such. I brought up the 650 because I thought the OP said belly mower, I know I have seen belly mowers on the fords as well.

I also have had no problems with my 8N, I did have my engine rebuilt a few years ago and was told that it was the first time for that engine...guess that is not bad and it cost me a whopping $1300 to have it done by a little Amish guy.

I love my little ford it is just not as fuel sippy as the JD and it is a little harder to mow with as it has the pull behind. As far as the live PTO, most people could care less.

[P B G]

Originally Posted by 2speed

Why is someone with less than 5 acres, that they don't actually farm, going to need a live PTO? How are they lacking in the loader department? Everyone I've seen has an engine driven pump.

Live PTO = great for mowing. You can slow the tractor if the grass gets heavy and the mower bogs down, you can start/stop the mowers while the tractor is in motion with out depressing the clutch, stopping, and shifting the PTO on, then releasing the clutch with a stopped mower.y

I'm sure you are quite familiar with ORC (over run clutch).

Something not needed on tractors where the PTO is not linked to the drive gears. Needed with an 8N... W/o one you pop in that clutch to stop and the spinning mower pushes you onward, into trees, buildings, ditches...

I can see not needing a live PTO if you say, do a lot of plowing, harrowing/other use of ground engaging equipment. But most small acreage owners need maneuverability, PTO powered equipment such as mowers/bush hogs. And of course safety.

As far as hydraulics. Don't forget, the factory pump on the 8N is internal to the transmission area, the engine mount ones are AFTERMARKET pumps, installed to run FEL's. The factory hydraulics were really more for running the 3PH on the 8N. So the front end loader 8N is way less than perfect. If you wanted to add one to a tractor that doesn't have it from the factory you add an aftermarket pump.

Beyond that an 8N's front axle is really not that sturdy for FEL duties. Recall most all old farm tractors are designed for pulling equipment, not FEL duty.

If you want a slightly better tractor for mowing, FEL duties etc, and like old fords any of the following would be good.
660, 860
NAA Jubilee
Or the larger 2000/3000 tractors.

Why would I pick these? 1. Live PTO, the clutch is dual acting. If you push the clutch in to the first posistion the tractor stops, push it all the way down and the PTO disengages. This allows you to shift the PTO into the "ON" position, release the clutch partially, allowing the mower to start spinning, then once its spooled up you can release the clutch further and start moving. OR you can slip the clutch in and let the mower catch up when you come into a heavy spot.

2. Hydraulic capacity, these tractors have factory pumps with more output, maybe still not enough for heavy loader duty/fast cycle, but sufficient for small farm.

When would I pick an 8N over one of these? If I didn't mow, or want an FEL.

[beefjerky]

I got an old ford with a ton of goodies for cheap. It'll do ALMOST everything from cutting weeds to fixing my 1/2 mile long driveway. On the occasion when a loader or a larger tractor is needed, I call one of my neighbors with the 50 horse kubota's...

[Benesesso]

I wouldn't wish an old Ford 9N on my worst enemy. Had this one, and it wouldn't pull the skin off a grape if more than ~100 lb. was in the bucket--hell, it would barely move at all.

Found a few teeth broken on the ring & pinion, and good luck changing the brakes. The 8N is almost as bad--doesn't have the brake-changing problem.

[P B G]

Originally Posted by Benesesso

I wouldn't wish an old Ford 9N on my worst enemy. Had this one, and it wouldn't pull the skin off a grape if more than ~100 lb. was in the bucket--hell, it would barely move at all.

Helps to load a large amount of weight on the rear, preferably starting with max. ballast in the tires (weight w/o putting it on the axles)

When doing FEL work one must always adjust counter weight to relieve front axle load as well as counter balance the tractor.

Same goes for when mounting stuff on the 3PH... You don't want to underload the front and have no steering either.

[2speed]

Originally Posted by P B G

Live PTO = great for mowing. You can slow the tractor if the grass gets heavy and the mower bogs down, you can start/stop the mowers while the tractor is in motion with out depressing the clutch, stopping, and shifting the PTO on, then releasing the clutch with a stopped mower.y


snip,snip

I know what live PTO is, how hydraulics work, and actively farm 40+ acres in that it includes sickle mowing, tedding, raking, baling, plowing, discing, row planting, spraying, cultivating, corn binding, logging, ditch digging, etc, etc. I've use 2N's, 8N's, NAA, Allis WC, Farmall BN, JD H, Ferguson TO35, and the newest tractor I own, a 1980 vintage 360 Long in which the PTO stage of the clutch is rusted fast.

I have never seen an aftermarket loader on an N-series that didn't have a engine mounted pump. I don't think that those with 2 acres need remotes with the implements they're using.

Someone with less than 5 acres, who brush hogs twice a year doesn't need a live PTO, or a $20,000 Kubota for that matter.

[AlfromMI]

Lack of power steering on an 8N can become very tedious when pulling a manure spreader on plowed fields.

One of the old farmers I work with maintains that power steering was the greatest advancment ever made on tractors.

[FPGT72]

Originally Posted by AlfromMI

Lack of power steering on an 8N can become very tedious when pulling a manure spreader on plowed fields.

One of the old farmers I work with maintains that power steering was the greatest advancment ever made on tractors.

I have pulled some pretty heavy shit (get it). I use my neighbors 1000yr old JD spreader and don't have problems, the HUGE steering wheel on the tractor helps out bunches, sometimes you just have to let it go where it wants to go and not be in a big hurry.

I also don't have problems picking up stuff...it will lift till it lifts the front wheels off the ground. The 3pt is plenty strong on my tractor.

I think it has a lot to do with how well the tractor was taken care of, these are pretty old machines. Before my rebuild I had 0 oil pressure and no power, it would also strugle to lift the brush hog. Now it is great...but it is rebuilt mechanically top to bottom. It is a great little tractor.

[P B G]

Originally Posted by 2speed

Someone with less than 5 acres, who brush hogs twice a year doesn't need a live PTO, or a $20,000 Kubota for that matter.

True they don't, hence I pointed out that the slightly newer, and not much more expensive NAA has features that make it a much more usable tractor, for not much more money. 2 grand gets you a good example of an NAA or an 8N around here.

I'm not advocating a brand new CUT for 5 acres not actively farming. But I think if you don't otherwise really dig the 8N, that you get a lot more tractor for the money going to an NAA or different tractors.

This coming from someone who does hay every summer with 2 JD A's, a JD B, and a Farmall Cub. I know the limitations of these tractors, and IF you didn't already have an itching for an 8N, the NAA is more tractor w/o a big upcharge.

Lets go back the the original post, mowing + snow moving. Those two things just don't scream 8N to me.