ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Battle scooters
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-16-2010, 06:52 PM   #16
Dabears
Studly Adventurer
 
Dabears's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Atlanta Burbs
Oddometer: 776
Interesting discussion. I can only speak for myself, but my R1200GS sits on a battery tender while my nasty 30 year old Vespa does my daily 16 mile commute and my errands and joy rides on weekends.

Ultimately I suspect I will end up with an automatic with a bit more power- I'm lusting after the BV300 if it ever makes it here to the US.

Most people I've spoken to that don't have positive things to say about scooters tend to believe that they aren't fast enough, aren't 'cool' enough, or aren't sporty enough. I think the opposite, and I have the option every day to chose between Germany's latest high tech vunderbike and a frumpy P200E.

Fellow scooterists understand.
__________________
Dabears

2006 R1200GS
1980 Vespa P200E
Dabears is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 07:21 PM   #17
MiteyF OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
MiteyF's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Michigan... temporarily
Oddometer: 1,777
OK, so many have decent brakes and a pretty good top speed (which really has no bearing for most), and I guess I can see an auto tranny being nice for some (although I think shifting is one of the most fun parts of any vehicle, 2 wheels or 4). Now, I really don't get the "style" thing as was mentioned, but that's always personal preference. I suppose for around town they may be ok, although that's what I have my 90cc cafe bike for, again with the handling aspect.

When people say "dry storage" now THAT still doesn't make any sense, as there's no way a scooter offers as much dry space as even a set of saddle bags, let alone with a top box and tank bag (which of course you can't have on a scooter).

So they're getting closer to making sense... definitely not there yet, but closer indeed!

And as to smoking Hardleys... well that's not saying much, don't even get me started on those big ugly things :)

EDIT: approachbears... all those things I said can NOT be said about motorcycles... even most small motorcycles have very good acceleration, braking and at least decent handling. The same cannot be said for scooters.
MiteyF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 07:41 PM   #18
seraph
asshole on a scooter
 
seraph's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Oddometer: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiteyF
OK, so many have decent brakes and a pretty good top speed (which really has no bearing for most), and I guess I can see an auto tranny being nice for some (although I think shifting is one of the most fun parts of any vehicle, 2 wheels or 4). Now, I really don't get the "style" thing as was mentioned, but that's always personal preference. I suppose for around town they may be ok, although that's what I have my 90cc cafe bike for, again with the handling aspect.

When people say "dry storage" now THAT still doesn't make any sense, as there's no way a scooter offers as much dry space as even a set of saddle bags, let alone with a top box and tank bag (which of course you can't have on a scooter).

So they're getting closer to making sense... definitely not there yet, but closer indeed!

And as to smoking Hardleys... well that's not saying much, don't even get me started on those big ugly things :)

EDIT: approachbears... all those things I said can NOT be said about motorcycles... even most small motorcycles have very good acceleration, braking and at least decent handling. The same cannot be said for scooters.
Most modern 150cc-ish scooters have underseat storage for at least one full-face helmet as well as luggage racks... so you can add a top box to the rack, a seat bag, and there are scooter saddle bags. Throw in a tunnel bag and a front rack, and you've got a damn workhorse. Many maxi-scooters have an *incredible* amount of underseat storage.
seraph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 07:58 PM   #19
hugemoth
Beastly Adventurer
 
hugemoth's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Bend, Oregon summer, Snowbird in winter
Oddometer: 2,474
Storage space for touring gear on the old style scooters was quite good. I'd put 2 sleeping bags, tent, tarp, and a cloths bag on the front rack. Food, stove, cooking gear, water bottles, small ice chest in rear top box. 2 extra tires under the top box. Valuables, camera, maps, etc., in locking glove box. 2.5 gallon gas can on center floor board. More cloths in soft saddle bags thrown over seat. Spare tire and tools under left side cover. Just as much ore more than I carried on the Goldwing. I did a lot of 2 up touring on the Vespa 200.

The super low center of gravity enables a scooter to flick from side to side in the tight corners more quickly than any large wheeled bike while the floor boards allow you to move your feet around to the most optimal position rather than being stuck on foot pegs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiteyF
OK, so many have decent brakes and a pretty good top speed (which really has no bearing for most), and I guess I can see an auto tranny being nice for some (although I think shifting is one of the most fun parts of any vehicle, 2 wheels or 4). Now, I really don't get the "style" thing as was mentioned, but that's always personal preference. I suppose for around town they may be ok, although that's what I have my 90cc cafe bike for, again with the handling aspect.

When people say "dry storage" now THAT still doesn't make any sense, as there's no way a scooter offers as much dry space as even a set of saddle bags, let alone with a top box and tank bag (which of course you can't have on a scooter).

So they're getting closer to making sense... definitely not there yet, but closer indeed!

And as to smoking Hardleys... well that's not saying much, don't even get me started on those big ugly things :)

EDIT: approachbears... all those things I said can NOT be said about motorcycles... even most small motorcycles have very good acceleration, braking and at least decent handling. The same cannot be said for scooters.
hugemoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 08:06 PM   #20
approachbears
250cc is 50cc too many
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Oddometer: 917
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiteyF
OK, so many have decent brakes and a pretty good top speed (which really has no bearing for most), and I guess I can see an auto tranny being nice for some (although I think shifting is one of the most fun parts of any vehicle, 2 wheels or 4). Now, I really don't get the "style" thing as was mentioned, but that's always personal preference. I suppose for around town they may be ok, although that's what I have my 90cc cafe bike for, again with the handling aspect.

When people say "dry storage" now THAT still doesn't make any sense, as there's no way a scooter offers as much dry space as even a set of saddle bags, let alone with a top box and tank bag (which of course you can't have on a scooter).

So they're getting closer to making sense... definitely not there yet, but closer indeed!

And as to smoking Hardleys... well that's not saying much, don't even get me started on those big ugly things :)

EDIT: approachbears... all those things I said can NOT be said about motorcycles... even most small motorcycles have very good acceleration, braking and at least decent handling. The same cannot be said for scooters.
They certain can be said as I've heard them. That doesn't make the speaker correct; it just indicates that many people have some strong beliefs based on something other than direct experience or direct comparisons. For instance, you scoffed at the notion of dry storage, but failed to notice that many scooters can and do often have top boxes and saddle bags as big as any motorcycle's along with fairly vast underseat storage, tunnel bags that are usually bigger than tank bags, and even real trunks that almost all motorcycles lack.

In the end two wheel riding is just too personal to knock someone else's choice with claims of some single superior standard. That standard just doesn't exist.
approachbears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 08:10 PM   #21
MiteyF OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
MiteyF's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Michigan... temporarily
Oddometer: 1,777
^^^ May I reiterate, no knocking going on here. A bit of disagreement perhaps, but no knocking!
MiteyF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 09:34 PM   #22
Photog
Charismatic Megafauna
 
Photog's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Cackalacky
Oddometer: 46,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiteyF
even most small motorcycles have very good acceleration, braking and at least decent handling. The same cannot be said for scooters.
You're coming across as trolling, there, unless you are truly unaware of what's out there. I'll humor you, though, since you say you're not, and hell, it's a chance to post up some pics.

This is the Yamaha T-max, which has quite a rabid following.



Geezerider's Burgman







(some credit--those last two pics are from a thread on ModernVespa, shot by the skilled Armand Ali...www.armand21.com)



You haven't had fun until you've been on a skinny-tired shifty.



and there's the "if I had to explain, you wouldn't understand" component that comes with love and obsession:




Sure, you can compare a yamahondazuki race replica and come out on top with horsepower and handling, but there are other categories where the scoot comes out on top, and yet won't bore the rider. Modern scoots are giving people options, and that's with the limited choices we have in the US. Elsewhere...it gets even better.

I don't know why I answer these questions anymore. I quit trying to explain this years ago and settled for enjoying conversation with other folks who enjoy the same critters. But I suppose, like with other different kinds of motorcycling, some people don't "get it". That's fine. Ride what you like. I hope you do get a chance to try a few different kinds of scoots and see what some of us have discovered.

I even had a blast on a crappy little chinese 50.
__________________
Only an XR1200 owner knows why Cthulhu hangs its head out a car window.

Like I like. Yep.

Photog screwed with this post 09-16-2010 at 09:40 PM
Photog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 10:21 PM   #23
V-Tour
Adventurer
 
V-Tour's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Bremerton WA Where the boats are
Oddometer: 43
When people say "dry storage" now THAT still doesn't make any sense, as there's no way a scooter offers as much dry space as even a set of saddle bags, let alone with a top box and tank bag (which of course you can't have on a scooter).

So they're getting closer to making sense... definitely not there yet, but closer indeed!

Well not quite right. I have a V-Strom and a Burgman 650 Executive. The Burgman has 57 liters of storage under the seat, I have a 45 liter trunk and two 21 liter Givi panniers. So I have 144 liters of dry storage not counting the three glove boxes.

I bought the Burgman because the wife liked the looks and thought it might make a nice short touring bike as I just sold my BMW. I will tell you that it has top speed of over 110, 400 mile days aren't a problem and if you get stuck in a construction back up of 25 miles or better you will be thanking your self for the good fortune of not having to clutch and work the gears.
V-Tour
__________________
V-Tour
2009 Burgman 650 Executive
2008 DL650 V-Strom
2008 R1200 RT BMW
2007 Honda Reflex
V-Tour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 02:51 AM   #24
Lammy1000
Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Northeast USA
Oddometer: 19
Bottom line: My Honda Reflex is simply more FUN to ride than my 123 hp Yamaha FZ1. Scooters are probibly best for those who are not uptight and don't take themselves too seriously.
Lammy1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 06:18 AM   #25
bkg123
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Milwaukie, Or.
Oddometer: 134
Work with a guy like MiteyF, what a dick. But I don't ride with him. Ride with my buddies who don't have issues with what others ride and my silverwing keeps up just fine.
Go ride with your own kind miteyF, quit worrying about what Im riding.
bkg123 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 07:28 AM   #26
bvardi
Probably not Deciduous
 
bvardi's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Oddometer: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiteyF

My thoughts. (snip)
They accelerate slowly, and most brake poorly.
They don't have the power to pull out of a turn.
Without proper footpegs you don't have nearly the input from your weight to help corner.
All of this adds up to make them DANGEROUS. In fact, I've ridden a few (mostly smaller ones) and can firmly say I will NEVER ride one in traffic. They just feel utterly SCARY. And I ride motorcycles every day, rain shine or snow.

Some say they ride them "for the gas mileage" (snip)

So... why?
Acceleration - depends on the scooter. My kymco B&W 250 beats most cars out from a light (and quite a few bikes) and has enough power to hit the highways (could possibly use a bit more, but it's safe enough) Haven't had an issue cornering with it (but I'm not a twisty addict) and the disc brakes front and back do quite a credible job of bringing it to a stop.

In fact in every way it's a better ride than the 70's hondas I have also had (but which I enjoyed for different reasons)

Plus in stop and go traffic it is VERY nice to have an auto - and I live i a big city with horrible traffic so that is a factor. And I'm not afraid of gears - my other ride beside the scooters is a Ural, which has a very primitive gearbox. (Heck the 70's hondas have smoother shifting... but I've grown to like the solid "Thunk" of a Ural shift)

They're lighter weight, which also makes them better for riding in an urban environment or dragging out for quick rides (easier to pull up onto a curb, people are less likely to ticket or object to your parking up on the sidewalk than a full blown motorbike.)

Smaller scoots are definitely "twitchier" which can make them feel unsafe if you are used to a larger bike. They respond to steering inputs a lot quickier, and are bounced around by wind gusts/road conditions a bit more. Not unsafe if you ask me - just different and something you adjust to.

I'd strongly disagree with the dangerous part however - maybe for you, maybe where you ride - but I've put 15-20k km on my scooters every year for 8-9 months of the year (til the roads get icy and I switch to the Ural) in conditions ranging from stop and go traffic to high speed on the highway - and I don't feel unsafe at all.

Like with ANY motorbike - you ride it according to it's nature, the conditions, and your riding style and experience level. Someone on a cruiser might find a sportsbike feels "dangerous" - and for them it might well be.
__________________
------------------
Member, Canadian Sidecar Owners Club (CSOC)
Member, CURD (Canadian Ural Dnepr Riders)
bvardi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 08:17 AM   #27
fullmonte
Reformed Kneedragger
 
fullmonte's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Oddometer: 4,816
A slightly different perspective

Two years ago the wife informed me that she wanted a scooter so she could commute to work. I bought her a Kymco Agility 125. She still hasn't learned to ride it, so I've been using it for trips around town. Its ideally suited for beer/milk runs due to the underseat storage and top box. If I want to go down town for an event, I take the scoot and park on the sidewalk or between two bikes. Instead of doing the 15 mile I-75 slab drone (which I hate), I get to take side streets and cut through neighborhoods. An added benefit is that my local shortcut knowledge has improved. One of the biggest benefits which the OP might understand is tire life. The scoot saves the tires on my motorcycles which is a huge plus when you go through tires as fast as I do. I was doing a tire change every other month (1 dualsport and 1 streetbike in the garage)before I got the scooter. For a tire whore scooters are great. I didn't "get it" either until I got one... for the wife.
__________________
"If you are looking for the typical ride to a restaurant, eat tacos, hold the middle finger over the food, stop and take a picture of a gravel road type ride, you probably won't be interested." - dlrides

"A guy I know was the lead researcher for the University of Utah federally funded study of cellphone and texting use while driving. He found that your twice as dangerous as a drunk while using your cell phone and I think it was up to six times worse if the driver was texting."-dakardad
fullmonte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 08:46 AM   #28
fullmetalscooter
Let me take this duck off
 
fullmetalscooter's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: BC
Oddometer: 2,307
cheap to buy, cheap to ride and cheaper to insure. No going oh shit if someone steals it. Someone back over my last one and after it was all said and done I did get all that upset at a mangled bike. Simple to fix still compared to other bikes. Does everything an old touring bike did without the weight.
__________________
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body,but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting WHAT A RUSH, WHAT A RIDE.
"Life is a tragedy when seen in close-up, but a comedy in long-shot." Charlie Chaplin
fullmetalscooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 08:57 AM   #29
TinyBear
Studly Adventurer
 
TinyBear's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Oddometer: 523
I have often wondered this myself.

BUT im in this forum as i reading up for my mum and sister who want a scoot for commuting duty.

For me i just dont see the point. For the $5000 most the 125+cc scooters are running i can pick up a BRAND new Ninja 250 that can go further faster and get better fuel mileage than any of the scooters. Throw on some saddle bags and im gold.

BUT the big reason my mum wants one is she works 4kms from home. She currently rides a Yamaha V-Star 650cc with saddle bags and it works fine for her BUT she tires of jumping on the big (to her) bike starting it up riding to work and shutting it off before it even gets a chance to warm up.

My kid sister wants one cause she is scared of shifting and thinks learning to ride on two wheels while learning to clutch and shift is too much (she is blond LOL). But i have her almost talked into giving it a try (i signing her up on my $$ to take the begginers rider course they only have Bikes).
__________________
2010 Honda CBF600SA
TinyBear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 09:14 AM   #30
Photog
Charismatic Megafauna
 
Photog's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Cackalacky
Oddometer: 46,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyBear
I
BUT the big reason my mum wants one is she works 4kms from home. She currently rides a Yamaha V-Star 650cc with saddle bags and it works fine for her BUT she tires of jumping on the big (to her) bike starting it up riding to work and shutting it off before it even gets a chance to warm up.
Funny...I was about to post something about that. My 1150GS wouldn't warm up before I got to work. Seems like I'd spend the first few minutes of a long ride on weekends blowing out the carbon from the cold commute during the week.

I'm also inseam-challenged with hip problems, so stop-and-go wasn't my strong suit on the GS.

I timed my commutes on the scoot, car, and big bike...all about the same, even with me zig-zagging on back streets on the smallest scoot.

I've commuted on several 50's, the MP3 250, and the Stella. Each one is very different. Assuming she's looking at an automatic scoot, I think she'll like the ease of riding and the underseat storage. It's nice to not have to haul in ride gear--just stuff it under the seat, lock it, and walk away. I usually carry my lid into work so I never worried about it fitting under the seat. But it was nice to fit my Robocop Attire in there. I had jesse bags on my GS, but there's a different kind of simplicity to the underseat storage. Hard to describe.

I can also fit a shotgun/rifle under the seat of my MP3, which makes trips to the range pretty easy.

Quote:

My kid sister wants one cause she is scared of shifting and thinks learning to ride on two wheels while learning to clutch and shift is too much (she is blond LOL). But i have her almost talked into giving it a try (i signing her up on my $$ to take the begginers rider course they only have Bikes).
Same with SWMBO...she hates clutches, loves scooters. She took the MSF course and is a good rider, but just prefers the automatics. Sometimes you just gotta go with their preference and enjoy the fact they're on two wheels. However, I do think there is an advantage for some riders to be able to focus solely on riding/traffic, versus fixating on the clutch. I'm an MSF coach, and some riders just have too many brain cells cramping over the clutch, which takes those brain cells away from other things. Stuff we take for granted--we've been riding for a long time--can be gargantuan things to n00bs.
__________________
Only an XR1200 owner knows why Cthulhu hangs its head out a car window.

Like I like. Yep.
Photog is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 12:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014