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Old 09-17-2010, 09:16 AM   #31
fullmetalscooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyBear
I have often wondered this myself.

BUT im in this forum as i reading up for my mum and sister who want a scoot for commuting duty.

For me i just dont see the point. For the $5000 most the 125+cc scooters are running i can pick up a BRAND new Ninja 250 that can go further faster and get better fuel mileage than any of the scooters. Throw on some saddle bags and im gold.

BUT the big reason my mum wants one is she works 4kms from home. She currently rides a Yamaha V-Star 650cc with saddle bags and it works fine for her BUT she tires of jumping on the big (to her) bike starting it up riding to work and shutting it off before it even gets a chance to warm up.

My kid sister wants one cause she is scared of shifting and thinks learning to ride on two wheels while learning to clutch and shift is too much (she is blond LOL). But i have her almost talked into giving it a try (i signing her up on my $$ to take the begginers rider course they only have Bikes).
5 grand is for the new high end scooters that are 400 cc plus. try about 1500 to under a grand for a 250 cc helix , elite, cf moto 250 shiftless motorbike. Yamaha Riva 180, . 2500 buys you a helix new old stock or cf moto 250 shiftless motorbike . A nice 50 cc honda ruckus is 2 grand new with a big following.
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:22 AM   #32
tastroman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyBear
I have often wondered this myself.



For me i just dont see the point. For the $5000 most the 125+cc scooters are running i can pick up a BRAND new Ninja 250 that can go further faster and get better fuel mileage than any of the scooters. Throw on some saddle bags and im gold.


You are right, you do not see the point. For that same $5000 you could get a maxi scooter that has full body weather protection, built in storage, a flat floorboard and more room 2 up than a Ninja 250. If you throw speed in the equation you again miss the point. A scooterist asks himself, "how fast do I need to go" where someone like yourself equates top speed with better. If you are never going to ride above 70mph, who cares if your bike of choice can go 150mph?

For me a scooter is a utilitarian vehicular better suited for the purpose than any comparably priced motorcycle.


That's a 50 pound bag of fertilizer on the floor, a bale of hay and a 100 foot hose in the crate behind the hay. Good luck with your saddle bags with this load. But than, you can go 100mph.
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:24 AM   #33
approachbears
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyBear
...For me i just dont see the point. For the $5000 most the 125+cc scooters are running i can pick up a BRAND new Ninja 250 that can go further faster and get better fuel mileage than any of the scooters. Throw on some saddle bags and im gold...
You're not looking very hard if you can't find a decent 125/150cc scooter for under $5000. Spend 2 minutes on the web and you'll find that $3500 Canadian gets you a new KYMCO, SYM or PGO (Buddy down here in the States) from multiple dealers across Canada.

Also, your fuel economy claim just isn't valid. Plenty of 150 scoots out do the lil' Ninja. For instance, the People 150 does 10 mpg better and the People 250 claims the same as the Ninja Jr.

As for going further, I've ridden the Ninja 250 and an hour in the saddle of almost any scooter is far more pleasant.
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:17 AM   #34
asphaltmueller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tastroman

That's a 50 pound bag of fertilizer on the floor, a bale of hay and a 100 foot hose in the crate behind the hay. Good luck with your saddle bags with this load. But than, you can go 100mph.
That's the spirit, man

I learned riding on a KTM

my goodfathers KTM Pony 2 scooter on his farmroads when I was forteen.

Later had a PUCH sort of non-step through with shield an small tyres (DS 50)

I'd love to have a scooter for Town if I could justify it - moneys tight - but then the girls 16th birthday aint that far
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Old 09-17-2010, 11:37 AM   #35
Bud Tugly
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The smaller scooters (under 250cc) are all about practical and inexpensive urban and suburban transportation. They are extremely good at zipping around city streets for commuting, running errands, or just plain fun. They are out of their element if you want to cruise long distances on the interstates, do serious offroad, go extremely fast in the twisties, or have image issues.

There used to be a wide range of small motorcycles available that largely filled that niche but they have almost entirely disappeared from the US market. The philosophy of motorcycle riding (or at least marketing) has changed to where many people consider 650cc the minimum size for a "real" bike unless it's a dedicated off-roader. Engine size and vehicle weight have escalated to the pont where a 400lb machine making less than 40 or so HP is considered "small".

I'm showing my age, but I recall the days when 650cc and above were the big bikes, 250-500cc were middleweights, and there were hoards of bikes smaller than 250cc. Things have certainly changed.
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Old 09-17-2010, 11:58 AM   #36
MiteyF OP
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The only other thing I'm wondering about is maintenance. I don't care for top speed runs either (but getting there is fun ). However, if your scoot tops out at 70-80 that means that in many situations you're really pushing the revs up near redline, which is never good for a motor. I know I like my sportbike on the freeway better than my dual sport, even though it's less comfortable, just because I don't have to turn the RPM that I do on the dual sport.

Hows the maintenance on the "off brand" scoots?
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Old 09-17-2010, 01:41 PM   #37
seraph
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiteyF
The only other thing I'm wondering about is maintenance. I don't care for top speed runs either (but getting there is fun ). However, if your scoot tops out at 70-80 that means that in many situations you're really pushing the revs up near redline, which is never good for a motor. I know I like my sportbike on the freeway better than my dual sport, even though it's less comfortable, just because I don't have to turn the RPM that I do on the dual sport.

Hows the maintenance on the "off brand" scoots?
If by "off-brand" you mean Chinese it can be bad because they tend to just break. If by "off-brand" you mean "second-tier" like Kymco and SYM, it's gravy, they're solid. Scooters may be run at full throttle all the time but they really don't suffer for it.

Typically on a modern 4-stroke CVT scoot of any make (but I based this on my Vino 125), maintenance is like this:
-Tires are about $30; new front every 12,000+mi and new rear every 3,500ish, thanks to the weight distribution. No tubes, no balancing, many DIY.
-Engine oil every 2,000mi or so; only takes five minutes and a quart. Final drive gear oil every other oil change, takes maybe 4oz.
-Air filters and brake pads vary a lot with use and environment just like with any vehicle.
-The only unique set of maintenance items is for the CVT. It's a rubber belt that needs replacing every 12,000-15,000 miles or so. There's also the roller/slider weights in the CVT pulley, which can last a really long time but can also develop flat spots and cause shuddering or hesitation in acceleration. Most people swap them out for performance anyway; lighter weights yield better acceleration, but too light means a loss in top end.

The rest of the bike requires as much (or as little) attention as the comparable parts on any other modern motorcycle.

On top speed, my scoots only do 55-60ish, and I'm okay with it. It's perfect for intra- and inter-city riding. Even if I were on a bigger bike, all the fun roads are 55mph anyway. When I need to go faster than that it's generally long interstate trips and I'd be driving a car.
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Old 09-17-2010, 05:39 PM   #38
Cat0020
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I have over 8000 mi. on my "off-brand" Chinese 250cc scooter.. still on original tires, it cruises nicely around 45-55 mph, get's over 80 mpg, cost me $35 to insure all year.. hasn't let me down yet, got a couple of flat tires, but fixed roadside with plugs and electric compressor..



Quote:
Originally Posted by V-Tour
When people say "dry storage" now THAT still doesn't make any sense, as there's no way a scooter offers as much dry space as even a set of saddle bags, let alone with a top box and tank bag (which of course you can't have on a scooter).

Well not quite right. I have a V-Strom and a Burgman 650 Executive. The Burgman has 57 liters of storage under the seat, I have a 45 liter trunk and two 21 liter Givi panniers. So I have 144 liters of dry storage not counting the three glove boxes.
Your maximum dry storage is 45 liter.. anything bigger than that you can't fix in your dry storage.. at least the Burgman can fit 2 fullface helmet under the seat.
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Old 09-18-2010, 09:57 AM   #39
lilolita
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiteyF
...I don't care for top speed runs either (but getting there is fun ). However, if your scoot tops out at 70-80 that means that in many situations you're really pushing the revs up near redline, which is never good for a motor...
I think you still don't get it. I live in a city where the posted speed limit is 25 mph on every street. I never have to go anywhere near 70 mph on my 4 mile commute. I can carry stuff under the seat to work, switch it out with my full-face helmet when I arrive (so it never gets wet), have a reserved parking spot on a very crowded campus, and fill the tank about every 10 days. I stop at the grocery on the way home and can carry plenty of supplies under the seat and in the milk crate on the back.

My insurance is about 80 bucks a year with full theft coverage (I do live in a city after all).

I find it really needs virtually no maintenance. I change the oil once a year (synthetic). At 7000 miles on my main commuting scoot, I think I've changed the oil and filter three times and the gear oil twice. I put in one set of new sliders, and one new back tire. That's it.

The thing starts when it's 7 degrees out with one or two pushes on the electric starter. I don't have to keep shifting in the really crappy traffic of my commute, and if I want a nice ride at lunchtime, I can leave the city and take a nice ride at 50 mph.

Because it was cheap to buy and cheap to maintain, I have enough money to have "real" motorcycles in my stable so I have choices for my rides. And my daily scoot is so cute and non-threatening that I've converted two people on campus into riders and another is going to take the MSF (required in RI) in the spring.

And finally, you're asking on ADV. We probably do things with/on our scooters that most scooter-riders don't do like tour (which I've done on my 150cc commuter scoot), race, restore. I would think that your plain vanilla TNG scooter rider in the US uses it for cheap transportation in an urban environment for commuting to school or work.
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Old 09-18-2010, 10:34 AM   #40
Warney
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...so what Scooter are you buying, MiteyF?
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Old 09-18-2010, 11:15 AM   #41
MiteyF OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warney
...so what Scooter are you buying, MiteyF?
A tiny one without a centrif clutch of course And it would have to be 2 stroke

Sounds like they make a lot of sense around town, and some for very short freeway jaunts. I just can't justify having something that won't serve ALL driving duties if need be. Same reason I don't own a track bike/car.

I appreciate all the thoughtful responses though, they're certainly making more sense. Not for me, but I can see the attraction I suppose.
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Old 09-18-2010, 12:11 PM   #42
seraph
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiteyF
A tiny one without a centrif clutch of course And it would have to be 2 stroke
Vespa smallframe.
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Old 09-18-2010, 12:29 PM   #43
MiteyF OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seraph
Vespa smallframe.
You're in Bellingham? Would I have seen you around town? If you see me holler, I'll be on the white DR350 most likely.

Or the red 2 stroke Kawi cafe

Or the blue/gray TL1000R

Or the flat black/red wheel bug

I think I need a bigger garage
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Old 09-18-2010, 02:03 PM   #44
Lammy1000
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Love, love love my Honda Reflex on twisty, hilly roads...the same ones I used to ride alot on my Yam FZ1. Crazy as it sounds, my Reflex is more fun. I can approach its limits and practice maintaining momentum. Most modern bikes have a surplus of power, so one can kinda cheat if their line around a corner is off. No cheating on slow bikes / scooters, but this does not mean its not fun, only that an amatuer motor bike rider will not be able to hide his lack of finesse with power. Does this sound like you, mitey??
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Old 09-18-2010, 02:19 PM   #45
MiteyF OP
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Originally Posted by Lammy1000
Love, love love my Honda Reflex on twisty, hilly roads...the same ones I used to ride alot on my Yam FZ1. Crazy as it sounds, my Reflex is more fun. I can approach its limits and practice maintaining momentum. Most modern bikes have a surplus of power, so one can kinda cheat if their line around a corner is off. No cheating on slow bikes / scooters, but this does not mean its not fun, only that an amatuer motor bike rider will not be able to hide his lack of finesse with power. Does this sound like you, mitey??
It's always more fun to ride a slow bike (or car) fast, than vice versa.

Well, usually :)
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