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Old 09-25-2010, 11:39 PM   #16
btcn OP
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Talking Update [Good!]

Ok, so I now Know for a fact that the damn auto by starter was the problem. It is not even a question at all. So two things.

First, I found that the auto by starter cable connecters were extremely weak! I have soldered them, and it has helped 100%. The auto by starter does not come on when not needed much anymore.

Second, it seems like this scooter needs to be ridden every day, or things go wrong! I have no idea why. It was actually running fine before I snapped the throttle cable for a while, but it had been sitting for a couple of weeks while I waited for the new cable. Now I have been putting some serious miles on it every day this week, and it seems to be running almost perfect now! I even ran it at 55 mph for about 5 miles without any trouble today! That is really weird! I still would like to know more about the by starter though! I here that they actually have more than just that wire to them to. I have also heard that they have special air and gas passage ways for them too. Strange. But this does not seem uncommon for by starters, and I have heard of a couple of people bypassing them. Does anyone know anything about by starters or bypassing them?
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Old 09-28-2010, 09:25 PM   #17
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by starter

The way i understand bt-starters, they dont actually block off air. when the engine is cold the plunger is retracted, opening a fuel enrichment passage, in the carburetor. more fuel to the mix. as the engine warms, the plunger on the bystarter extends, blocking off this passage, giving it less fuel. I think you may be on the right track with the wiring to the by starter, if the wires lost contact, the bystarter would "think" the engine was cold. The only hole in this theory, in my opinion, would be, the bystarter needs time to cool down to retract the plunger, opening the enrichment passage. my second thought is a sticking float needle, or incorrect float height. hope i didnt muddy the waters for you. It will live again, keep trying! One other thing to inspect would be the diaphragm in the top of the carburetor, remove the screws from the top plate while holdin down on it, the spring will try to push the plate up so be carefull. pull out the diaghram and needle, and check the diaphram for splits. if it is not sealing it could cause the slide to open and close while it should remain open. hope this helps.

Waterdog16 screwed with this post 09-28-2010 at 10:18 PM
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Old 09-28-2010, 10:38 PM   #18
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Yea, I am like 100% sure it was that by starter now. I just kept on riding it and now it is running fine! I have no idea why, but it does! I soldered the wires, and I think it fixed it! I ran it at speeds of 50, 55, and even 65+ mph today! It was running great! It had to be this. I would feel a sudden power loss at all speeds, and it would be like riding a 50 year old mini bike with a 50 cc single speed engine! Absolutely no power what so ever! Then it would flick on and easily go any speed.

Now it will cruise at 50+ all day long with ease. It cruises at 50 so quality I can hear the traction noise from the tires now! Thats a first for this thing!

It was just so frustrating after dumping so much into a new engine and so on for this thing! I have not experienced that Honda Reliability out of this scoot yet! Hopefully I will now or soon! Thanks, I appreciate the suggestions .
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Old 09-29-2010, 02:32 AM   #19
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glad it s a solved problem.
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Old 09-29-2010, 08:09 AM   #20
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Thanks! I did a ton of trouble shooting, but I finally found it was that damn auto by starter!
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Old 09-29-2010, 11:15 PM   #21
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Question Anyone know of a way to bypass that damn by starter??

This is really weird! So yesterday I was unable to ride my Elite 150, and today I start it up and it runs like shit again! Huh. So I rode it for quite a while. It started running better after I did a bit more riding tonight. So strange! On this particular scooter, you basically need to ride it every day or it runs like crap. I know it is the auto by starter though. I hate that stupid piece of shit! I would love to bypass it if anyone knows of any way, please suggest a method or give me any info on bypassing the by starter. I live in CA, I do not need the choke. I start all of my Enduros with it off, even on cold mornings, I really have little need for it.

I am starting to understand how they work, but I still do not fully understand them. I also have a spare old carburetor that I know longer use to experiment with so I don't really care if I screw it up. I have read an article about people having the exact same problem with new Chinese GY6 scooters, and they bypasses them by using epoxy to plug certain passageways, and some replacing the carbs with manuel choke CV carb types. Anyone know of any carbs that might fit without an auto by starter? I can survive with this, as long as I ride it every day, but I would appreciate any suggestions on bypassing it.
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Old 10-01-2010, 08:26 PM   #22
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Pissed Damn it!

That stupid piece of shit auto by starter! It is sticking on all the time again! My fuel economy is now shit again, worse than the GSXR 1000 using a half tank to get 3 miles down the road, and the backfiring has started up again! 45 mph is not holdable any more! What ever engineer designed that stupid damn thing was drunk, stupid or both. This thing is slower than my CRF 50 again. It is slow off the line, and won't hold 45 mph any more!

I would love to do nothing more than to shut down that damn auto by starter.I love the scoot and all, it is fun and awesome, but that by starter is really ruining every bit of my fun on it. I just want a little consistent performance, not this. Does ANYONE have ANY suggestions on HOW TO GET RID OF THAT BY STARTER? I will try ANYTHING. I don't care what it takes. Its that or the bike is sold. I thought the yamaha Rivas were the ones with by starter problems!
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Old 10-01-2010, 09:03 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by btcn
That stupid piece of shit auto by starter! ......................
I would love to do nothing more than to shut down that damn auto by starter.I love the scoot and all, it is fun and awesome, but that by starter is really ruining every bit of my fun on it. I just want a little consistent performance, not this. Does ANYONE have ANY suggestions on HOW TO GET RID OF THAT BY STARTER? I will try ANYTHING. I don't care what it takes. Its that or the bike is sold. I thought the yamaha Rivas were the ones with by starter problems!

Get a flatslide carb- similar to this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/28mm-...item4cf21c1342

These give you much better throttle response and have a manual choke so no bystarter. You will need to run a new throttle cable for the flatslide (no big deal) and figure out some way to access the choke. If you look in the picture that black "knob" is the choke. You pull it up to engage the choke and push it back down when the bike is warm. There are cable conversions for the choke where you hook up an adapter to the choke and run a cable up to the dash with a push-pull knob for operating the choke remotely. You will probably have to work on the jetting just a bit too but starting with the jets from the Keihin CV that the bike already has would be a good way to go.

If you decide to do this and have any questions PM me and I'll see if I can walk you through the process.

Later,

Nathan
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Old 10-02-2010, 04:35 AM   #24
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I m guessing you need to buy one. ether off ebay or a wrecker around you. it's still a part your can buy from bikebandet also there is this elite in your area for part but they don't say which one. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/mcy/1982411445.html 180 bucks. you can't get rid of it because of the cdi unit I think. It's a replacement item .
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Old 10-02-2010, 08:16 AM   #25
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nacree, that is a great idea! I would be willing to do some work and customizing to get one to work, if thats what it takes! I will definitely go for it if I am able to find on that fits. There is only one question I have, what about the hoses and the vacuum tube? I am sure those have at least a vacuum hose, but what about the other hoses, like the one coming up from under the scooter. I would be willing to modify it my self, but I would like to know if these need to be bypassed or if they can be fitted to the carburetor.

Thanks, I really appreciate the idea, I'll ask you any questions I have.

fullmetalscooter. That Scooter is in my area, but I think that is an Elite 80. If it is a 1992, and it is not a Helix, it must be an 80 cc. I am still thinking about the CDI, and I might just throw a new one in, but the by starter has to be the problem. Thanks!
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Old 10-02-2010, 08:30 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by btcn
nacree, that is a great idea! I would be willing to do some work and customizing to get one to work, if thats what it takes! I will definitely go for it if I am able to find on that fits. There is only one question I have, what about the hoses and the vacuum tube? I am sure those have at least a vacuum hose, but what about the other hoses, like the one coming up from under the scooter. I would be willing to modify it my self, but I would like to know if these need to be bypassed or if they can be fitted to the carburetor.

Thanks, I really appreciate the idea, I'll ask you any questions I have.

fullmetalscooter. That Scooter is in my area, but I think that is an Elite 80. If it is a 1992, and it is not a Helix, it must be an 80 cc. I am still thinking about the CDI, and I might just throw a new one in, but the by starter has to be the problem. Thanks!
The one that I showed you in the link will fit- I have one on my 87 150. An OKO 24 or 28 will fit no problem. It will fit the stock intake boot and air filter housing boot. As far as the vacuum lines the only one you will need is for the vacuum petcock- the others can be plugged. There are also a couple of coolant lines going to the carb but all they do is warm the carb to prevent icing. You can simply connect the "in" and "out" together (making a loop) and call it done.
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Old 10-02-2010, 09:21 AM   #27
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So the carburetor has a line for the petcock vacuum? I will definitely go for it! So you have one in your 87 Elite? So does it perform a lot differently? Is the acceleration and top speed better? I would go for it even if it takes performance away, as long as it eliminates that stupid auto by starter! But I have heard that flat side carbs need a lot of jet adjusting and stuff. Is that true? As long as it is not ridicules, maybe a little tweak here and there, I could live with it. Better than 12 hp one minute and 2 hp the next!

Also, how do the throttle cables connect on those? I just need a different cable?

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Old 10-02-2010, 10:05 AM   #28
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So the carburetor has a line for the petcock vacuum? I will definitely go for it! So you have one in your 87 Elite? So does it perform a lot differently? Is the acceleration and top speed better? I would go for it even if it takes performance away, as long as it eliminates that stupid auto by starter! But I have heard that flat side carbs need a lot of jet adjusting and stuff. Is that true? As long as it is not ridicules, maybe a little tweak here and there, I could live with it. Better than 12 hp one minute and 2 hp the next!

Also, how do the throttle cables connect on those? I just need a different cable?
Top speed is limited by gearing and the CVT so no carb will be able to change that. However, thottle response from idle and when you crack open the throttle quickly is phenomenal and the acceleration is better as well.

Tuning is not hard but you may have to try a couple of jet changes to get things dialed in initially but that is no big deal. You can use the stock jets as a good starting point. After that the carb should be good to go- no more adjustments needed.
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Old 10-02-2010, 02:48 PM   #29
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I can definitely live with that! I have been looking at a ton of different carburetors today, and I have found a few with manuel chokes. The only thing is I can not be sure that they will fit my air filter and carb manifold. I might just go with the one you showed me. I now understand how those by starters work, and all I can say is they are WAY over engineered and ridicules. Why now make a little motor control a valve like a standard choke? Or just a handle bar switch?

Anyway, I am definitely going manuel choke CV or flat side carb. It will just need a couple of mods I guess, and it will be good! I also noticed that the one you showed me ships from TAIWAN. As long as it takes no more than a month or so, it it not a problem.
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Old 10-02-2010, 03:47 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by btcn
I can definitely live with that! I have been looking at a ton of different carburetors today, and I have found a few with manuel chokes. The only thing is I can not be sure that they will fit my air filter and carb manifold. I might just go with the one you showed me. I now understand how those by starters work, and all I can say is they are WAY over engineered and ridicules. Why now make a little motor control a valve like a standard choke? Or just a handle bar switch?

Anyway, I am definitely going manuel choke CV or flat side carb. It will just need a couple of mods I guess, and it will be good! I also noticed that the one you showed me ships from TAIWAN. As long as it takes no more than a month or so, it it not a problem.
The 24 OKO will fit the stock carb manifold and the stock air filter boot- no mods needed.

I have ordered from Autotech355 many times and he ships fast- If you do decide to get that carb ask him if he can get you a throttle cable as well. Cable should only run $12-$14.

If you think Hondas bystarters are bad you should work on a Yamaha Riva from the same time- a total nightmare. If I run across my link for the choke cable conversion I'll post it but many places have them.

Later,

Nathan

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