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Old 03-04-2013, 11:29 AM   #1801
JimVonBaden
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Very cool! The lids are taller than mine, by design, but at least you get some real use from them.

Jim
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:32 AM   #1802
kirkster70 OP
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Latch mocked-up.



Lower catch welded on.



I like that a lot!



...and we're off to powder once again. Yay!




Ok, it was brought to my attention by another inmate that I should be using longer rivets backed by washers on my footman loops.

I am always open to suggestions, especially by those who have been where I'm trying to go. I am appreciative to those who speak up and try to send me in the right direction.

But, it got me to thinking...

How strong is my current setup? Am I putting out something inferior? If I am, I want to know so I can correct it. With that in mind, LET'S TRY TO BREAK SOMETHING!

LOAD TEST!!!!!!

Super scientific starting criteria:

5052 x .080" aluminum.
3/16" x 1/8" grip aluminum rivets.
Stainless steel footman loops that accept 1 1/2" strapping.

No washers on the backsides of the rivets.

^ Identical to how I install them on the lids...

I start with two pieces of scrap; a lid that didn't quite work out for a static test (I think it's a static test?) and another small scrap for a shear test.

Time to play with the gantry!





Test 1: 50 lbs.





Test 2: 100 lbs. Whoops. No piccy.

Test 3: 150 lbs.



200 lbs...



2 fiddy..



3...



3 fiddy...



And just enough strap to wedge in fo' hundred.

Easy math tells me that's 100 lbs per footman loop with no failure. That's all I needed to see. I would Imagine shear load to be similar, so I didn't even test it.



No tricks up my sleeve, and no washers under the rivets.



After unloading, no signs of distress...



...likewise for the loops. I'm glad I did that. Now I'm confident I'm putting out a good product.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:35 AM   #1803
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post


Very cool! The lids are taller than mine, by design, but at least you get some real use from them.

Jim
Thanks, Jim! It's an illusion. They are only .080" taller. The flange is different, so it just looks that way.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:43 AM   #1804
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Have you mitered one yet, and if so, what glue did you end up iseing to seal them from tearing?

Jim
Still waiting on the shipment, but on Trim-lok's video on their site, they make no mention of any glue at all.

If it's needed, I do have some 3M weather stripping sealant I will use.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:47 AM   #1805
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Though you definitely proved the static weight with that, I would agree on the washers. If you start pulling sideways, especially with movement of your cargo, the loops will lever out of the hole with no washer. I'm sure they are OK with your 2mm thick lids, but I would add washers in the future.

Remember, your footman loops are on the angle on some of the lids, and will certainly be asked to pull at an angle as people strap crap over the bike from one side to the other. That is why I didn't have you put them on, as I would have done that and pulled so hard I would tweak the lids! Instead I strap to the frame, and the pannier racks!

Thanks,

Jim
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:48 AM   #1806
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Thanks, Jim! It's an illusion. They are only .080" taller. The flange is different, so it just looks that way.
EDIT: on second thought, they ARE the same height.

You have 1/2" of rise before the bevel, but the overall height is identical at 2"

Mine bevels right off the flange with no rise, so the bevel is larger, but it's still 2" tall.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:50 AM   #1807
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Though you definitely proved the static weight with that, I would agree on the washers. If you start pulling sideways, especially with movement of your cargo, the loops will lever out of the hole with no washer. I'm sure they are OK with your 2mm thick lids, but I would add washers in the future.

Remember, your footman loops are on the angle on some of the lids, and will certainly be asked to pull at an angle as people strap crap over the bike from one side to the other. That is why I didn't have you put them on, as I would have done that and pulled so hard I would tweak the lids! Instead I strap to the frame, and the pannier racks!

Thanks,

Jim
Hmmm.... okay.

Off to do a shear test to prove washers aren't needed, or to make me look like an ass.

...either way - let's learn something! BRB...
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:50 AM   #1808
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EDIT: on second thought, they ARE the same height.

You have 1/2" of rise before the bevel, but the overall height is identical at 2"

Mine bevels right off the flange with no rise, so the bevel is larger, but it's still 2" tall.

I guess so. It is a little hard to judge bacause of the shape difference.

Jim
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:51 AM   #1809
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Hmmm.... okay.

Off to do a shear test to prove washers aren't needed, or to make me look like an ass.
Prove me wrong! I'm OK with that!

Jim
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:14 PM   #1810
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Redneck Mythbusters at your service.

Let's start strong right out of the chute...

POP!





The back of the tractor is likely around 700 lbs or more with all the crap I have bolted to it. I was REALLY hoping this would work.

...but...let's assess the damage...







Back of rivet intact with no visable sign of distress.



Footman loop tweaked. Eyelet holes are the same size.



Close-up of the backside of the same rivets. Would a longer rivet and a washer prevent this? I would say probably not.



Now, let's try the other little scrap piece I made up. Let's start with 200 lbs of load for 100 on each loop. A decent floor jack is around 100 lbs, so I'd say this is very close to 200 lbs.



And back to the hardware stash...
250 lbs. +/-...



300 lbs...





350 lbs...



400 lbs +/-... POP!



So let's see how this one failed.



Same results - tweaked loop, eyelet holes the original size, rivets broken on the front side.



And the back side tells the same story. Would a longer rivet and a washer prevent this? I would say no since it failed on the front side.



That was actually pretty fun and it's good information to know. You can draw your own conclusions from my redneck load testing, but it tells me that the footman loops with 3/16" aluminum rivets with no backing washer are stronger than the payload capacity of your motorcycle.

EDIT: that last pic is wrong. On the full lid, the 700# test was a shear test, not a static. The 400# was static, though.

kirkster70 screwed with this post 03-04-2013 at 01:30 PM
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:32 PM   #1811
Dwreker
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So where am I supposed to secure the shed I am picking up this weekend??

I demand a refund!
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:36 PM   #1812
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Looks like the front of the rivets are weaker than the back. 2mm aluminum held great! I would say you are good to go.

Of course, in the real world we will find a way to break them!

I've seen people use ratchet straps on their luggage loops before, and even manage to bend a frame that way.

For your stuff, looks like you are golden!

Jim
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:06 PM   #1813
bigtex
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Gawd, I love this thread. Very, very nice work.
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:49 PM   #1814
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So where am I supposed to secure the shed I am picking up this weekend??

I demand a refund!


Zactly!!!

If the loop is bending, ur gonna' eff something up.
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:52 PM   #1815
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Looks like the front of the rivets are weaker than the back. 2mm aluminum held great! I would say you are good to go.

Of course, in the real world we will find a way to break them!

I've seen people use ratchet straps on their luggage loops before, and even manage to bend a frame that way.

For your stuff, looks like you are golden!

Jim


The heads didn't fail or pull though the loops.

The middle stretched, then broke. The heads were intact with no distortion. I should have taken a piccy of that.

But yeah - that was fun!


More fun is on the way. Big red (pope mobile)might get some snow time!

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