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Old 11-26-2011, 12:09 AM   #331
Dorzok
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Well there you have it

#__Part Number________________ Description______________________ MSRP ____ Price
8) 50221-769-000 ______COVER A, FRAME (LOWER) (Honda Code 3691433). ___$142.52___$114.02
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Old 11-26-2011, 12:53 AM   #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmer View Post

Yes, in the parts diagram there's #8 & #9 that I don't see in any of the pictures that have been posted thus far. They would definitely make the frame assembly stronger.
That's the idea. Those two components are the frame assembly. Without them the frame is subjected to a bending load, instead of tension and compression.


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Poolside screwed with this post 11-26-2011 at 12:58 AM
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Old 11-26-2011, 04:55 AM   #333
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Yeah, I have pieces #8 and #9 off the frame right now so I can try to straighten it as best as I can. I'm thinking maybe someone used it with the dozer blade without those pieces for a good length of time. That would do it.

It appears that someone has used a torch to heat and beat the hell out of it. Hammer marks everywhere. I've already studied the frame schematic and what worries me the most is that my frame appears to have an offset from said heating and beating. The right cutout for the axle tube looks to have it's original shape, but the left cutout looks bent at the front arc of the cutout. Above that is what looks like an offset in the frame on the horizontal surface.

The indentations are correct for the control arms and for the oil drain bolt, but the plane of the front of the frame shouldn't rise any higher than the rest of the frame, and it looks like it does. I'll get out some string and do some eyeballing.

If there is an offset, I'll just measure from the floor to the top of the frame in front of the driver's seat, and then make the very nose of the frame the same height and just live with the offset. I mowed with it 3 or 4 times and it did great and I never even noticed it. It should do even better with a rigid frame instead of a springer!

Getting ready to slam some coffee and go get dirty in the garage again. Pics later.

kirkster70 screwed with this post 11-26-2011 at 05:04 AM
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Old 11-26-2011, 09:08 AM   #334
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new frame is only $1,700 and change.
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Old 11-26-2011, 12:58 PM   #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorzok View Post
new frame is only $1,700 and change.
Sounds like a very good reason for this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkster70 View Post

Getting ready to slam some coffee and go get dirty in the garage again. Pics later.


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Old 11-26-2011, 04:42 PM   #336
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You got it! $1,700 is one thing... how about stripping the entire tractor apart and rebuilding it on a new frame! NO THANKS! Ha Ha!

I have LOTS of pics from today. I worked my rear end off!



The day begins with getting in tighter w/ a die grinder and making valleys at the cracked area for the new weld to lie in.



I'm now ready to attempt my repairs.



I set my MM252 for 1/8" material running solid ER70s-6 and flowing Argon/CO2 @ 25 cfh.



I start filling the huge undercut from the previous guy's welding on the factory frame hole in the middle. Then I start filling the holes from the screws that were in the angle.



I use a 4" grinding wheel to grind everything smooth.



I use the die grinder to radius the hole I just built up as best as I can. Welding is awesome! Have I said that lately? Ha Ha!



I do some measuring and determine that the frame is indeed tweaked a bit. I put plate "#8" back in place with all new OEM Honda hardware to try to prevent any additional warpage, and then place a jack under the nose. I'm able to get it a little closer to where it needs to be. Then I wedge a scrap piece of copper buss bar above the axle tube to act as a backing plate so I can build up this undercut.



Same goes for the other side... I build it up by pulling from the top to the bottom with wide arcs letting it cool a bit as I go.



Both grinders come back out and I'm able to dress it up to look fairly close to factory. I'm getting pretty excited about what I'm seeing.



Looking better every minute!

Phase one of the repair complete. I already have pics of the next phase, but I'm going to go ahead and post these so I don't time out. More pics in a couple minutes...
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Old 11-26-2011, 05:28 PM   #337
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Phase 2: Making a "fish plate". Fresh from the dumpster at work. SCRAP! Was there ever any doubt that scrap would be used? This is from a recent VFD upgrade on a chiller at work.



From everything I researched on repairing a frame, the thing that kept repeating itself was to use the same thickness patch as the parent material. Thinner is no good for obvious reasons, and thicker is also bad because it will cause additional stress on the edges that will likely break again.



Yeppers. Same thickness. The patch looks a bit wider due to the burrs on the backside from being cut with a sawzall, but it's a perfect match.



I use an old painter's trick for laying out flames, transferring patterns, etc. Automotive masking paper gets taped down and I use the side of a dark crayon to rub outlines of everything I need to know.



I cut out my shape and check for fit. YAY! craft time!



I cut the edges at 45 degree angles for a reason. The other thing I learned about making frame repair is to NOT make a parallel or perpendicular (sp?) weld. Make a weld diagonal to your crack to spread the forces out. I don't exactly have a lot of surface area on the side, but I do the best I can.





Pattern transferred to steel. Believe it or not, the steel was exactly the width I needed. I did not fit my pattern to the steel. It was meant to be.



Holes drilled larger than needed with a holesaw in a drillpress.



Rough cutout checked for fit.



Edges shaped and powdercoat stipped to bare metal with the grinder. Once again checked for fit. Let's roll!



I lay down some heavy tacks at the front and begin the beatings until the morale improves.



I beat the plate from front to back down the center, tacking as I go as it takes shape. Thhis is actually working. I'm still not sure about the sides, but I'm going to try to beat it into submission. OBEY!



I keep beating the metal and it's taking the shape better than I thought it would. I use a small C clamp to hold it in position while I keep tacking away.



A little out of focus, but you get the idea. I use a wide assortment of beating instruments to make this happen.





So there you have it. After about an hour and a half of beating and banging, the fish plate is tacked in place. I'm whupped, so final weld-up and paint will happen tomorrow. If all goes well, reassembly should happen Monday. Thank goodness the weather has been mild. It would just about kill me to see snow piling up while the tractor is in pieces!

All I have in this is my labor and some filler wire and gas. Can you imagine having a professional welder do this? What is it now, $80 an hour plus materials? Yep, the MIG just keeps paying for itself over and over again.

More pics when I have something to show...
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:10 PM   #338
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WHOOOO!!!



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Old 11-27-2011, 02:58 PM   #339
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More from today...



Final welding complete.



I use a grinder on the top surfaces only to make sure I have plenty of clearance to the oil pan. Side welds left alone for strength.



I use the die grinder to radius all the factory frame holes.



I notice the factory weld on the left side of the steering column support is cracked. Piece of cake to repair after the frame.



Ditto for the right side, the only difference being this side was previously repaired. I've already started cleaning the area with the die grinder in this pic.



Huge undercut from previous attempt at repair.



I set my MIG for 18 gauge and start rebuilding the undercut one small tack at a time. Not exactly the prettiest weld in the world, but it's better than how I found it.



ALL welding complete! I clean everything to be spraybombed with R-M pre-kleeno and paper towels and give her a good dousing of satin black paint. I "freehand" the paint with no masking and feather the paint into the existing areas. The steering column support gets shot with galvanizing compound to prevent rust. I got the frame very close to where it should have been. The nose drops 2 degrees, but that is also WAY better than before. I'm very happy with the repair.



Here is the finished product. The tractor is currently in the garage drying. Reassembly tomorrow.
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Old 11-27-2011, 02:59 PM   #340
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WHOOOO!!!




Thanks!!!
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Old 11-27-2011, 03:49 PM   #341
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Looks great!

Time for a beer!

Jim
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Old 11-27-2011, 04:22 PM   #342
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kirkster70,

Had you thought of using plug weld in the interior of the plate to get more material bonding the plate to the frame? It would have seemed pretty easy to do and may have added a little more rigidity to that part of the repair.

Just a thought,
Ken
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Old 11-27-2011, 05:29 PM   #343
kirkster70 OP
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Looks great!

Time for a beer!

Jim

Thanks, Jim!
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Old 11-27-2011, 05:36 PM   #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilkinsonk View Post
kirkster70,

Had you thought of using plug weld in the interior of the plate to get more material bonding the plate to the frame? It would have seemed pretty easy to do and may have added a little more rigidity to that part of the repair.

Just a thought,
Ken
Hi Ken,

Yeah, I did consider doing a series of about 4 plug welds down each side on the top. You can see in the pic below where I had started to make a couple small marker dots on where I wanted the plug welds to be...



It's 1/8" plate and is very rigid. It conformed to the frame better than I thought it would. The welded areas around the factory holes took the place of plug welds on that side. The way I wrapped it in a C shape, I'm not sure if plug welds would have made a huge difference or not on rigidity.

I'm very happy with the outcome. Now I'll have to look for something else broken.
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Old 11-27-2011, 07:04 PM   #345
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easy with the grinder!

next time you are at the weld supply,,pick up a 60 grit flapper wheel for your 4 1/2" grinder. Trust me! You'll like it!
It'll get rid of all those grinder marks and scratches, and leave a much nicer surface,,esp. if you plan to paint,,those grinder marks will show right thru.
a few seconds with a flapper wheel and you have smooth shiny metal ready for paint. They strip paint and rust pretty well too.
Looks like you are having fun, so you are doing that part right!
Oh,, and unless it's really windy where you are working,,you can likely cut your shielding gas down to around 17,,I run 19 to 20 with fans blowing, and 17 in the still/calm air.
good looking work, keep it up!
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