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Old 12-24-2012, 01:08 AM   #1171
DaBit
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Originally Posted by Armydad View Post
I've made circles in 2 axis, i know what u mean. Let me know when u get to 5 axis machining with a ball e.m., i've got a ton of jobs waiting for u !
I won't get that far. I do want to experiment with a 4th axis in the future though to see if that could save me buying a lathe. 99% of the turning jobs I have involve just simple spacer bushings etc.

After all this started out as 'I need a machine which can drill round holes square to the workpiece' instead of triangular holes that are always off square a little.
When arriving at the local 'Harbor Freight' to get me a table-size drill column with crosstable (so drilling an accurate hole pattern would be a little easier) the guy in the store said 'I have one, I would like to sell it to you, but frankly, the quality of those machines is not what it used to be anymore so I recommend against it. You would be back here complaining within two weeks'. After some instant Googling I left with this machine. The Optimum BF20 Vario / Grizzly G0704 and other names this very same machine is sold under seem to have a strong following.

And of course, pretty soon after purchasing I destroyed workpiece number three by miscounting the turns on the wheels and found the lack of a digital readout on the X/Y axes annoying. After a little research I found out that adding a DRO would be more expensive than implementing open-loop stepper motor control of the axes using homebuilt electronics and junk computers etc.

Quote:
Nice work, (i wish i had the patients) but that's got to take a ton of time, yes? New York time is very expensive, i would opt to buy the retrofit kit myself.
I love to walk into the garage, close the door, turn on the music, and minding my own business without kids/girsfriend/boss/whatever nagging me constantly. It is my 'meditation room' to keep me mentally sane (uh, all relative of course )

Seeing the mathematics implemented in the stepper motor winding current controller actually perform very quick and tight current regulation makes my heart tick a bit faster. The whirring of the motor combined with the sound of an end mill eating through C45 steel like it's butter makes me smile and feel all warm and cozy. It is a far better place to spend time than behind the television.

And of course there is always the money issue. Bolt-on retrofit kits are pretty expensive.

Well, uhm, OK, back ontopic :)
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Old 12-24-2012, 04:56 AM   #1172
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Ok, 4th axis in my shop rarely gets the oportunity for 3d work of any sort, especialy since we have high speed machines in x,y, and z for that. 99% of it's use is positioning only, but with a good deal of accuracy; on 360 deg. u can expect +/- a few minutes, depending on diameter. The smaller, the better. The cheapest automated indexer u might find is a Lyndex, or a Haas starting at about 8k new, with a controller. The head alone is somewhere around 5k. used would be 1/3 less i suppose.
Yes, a DRO would be the way to watch what's going on, (u know u can make those too, but the glass scales are the expence there) but by the time u see it goof'n up ur pc., it's usualy too late! Unless ofcoarse u stop it before it reaches your destination.
Had to laugh when u said "go into the garage and close the door" - A+ and amen! Many murders have been avoided thru the sanctuary of such a holy place! I'm 53 and still doing that !

"It is a far better place to spend time than behind the television" We need to teach our kids this.
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Old 12-24-2012, 06:09 AM   #1173
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Originally Posted by kirkster70 View Post
Yeah, I'm a glutton for punishment. I think I have nerve damage in my thumb now.

A mill would be very nice. I'm building this gantry to offload another tool I'm picking up in about 2 weeks in Ohio that weighs 2274 lbs. My pimp wad is officially gone. A nice mill will have to wait for a bit.
Wow - the same hole saw! It deserved to be bronzed and mounted to a plaque.

What is your next purchase? And it you will be anywhere near Columbus on your road trip and would like a free lunch, ping me.

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^ I finally got a chance to check out this guy's video. Very nice craftsmanship! Thank you for embedding the video. I'll have to watch all his other vids now.
Watch the series on fixing the merry go round. The level of craftsmanship and restoration skills is amazing.
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Old 12-24-2012, 06:10 AM   #1174
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Ok, 4th axis in my shop rarely gets the oportunity for 3d work of any sort, especialy since we have high speed machines in x,y, and z for that.
I would use the 4th axis to rotate round stock so I can make my adapter bushings etcetera. No need for a fancy setup; just one of those fairly cheap manual indexing tables, a lathe chuck and another stepper motor. LinuxCNC is perfectly able to control that 4th axis. Would set me back $350 or so.

$350 would also buy me a second hand small lathe, but space is a problem and $350 for the machine means at least the same amount for tooling.
( I have a simple tooling cost calculation method: if I spend $100 on a machine, I know I have to spend $100 on tooling in the near future also)

Quote:
Yes, a DRO would be the way to watch what's going on, (u know u can make those too, but the glass scales are the expence there) but by the time u see it goof'n up ur pc., it's usualy too late!
Since the system is steppermotor-based, it is easy for the controller to keep track of the position and show that on the 'big 15" LCD screen' (which was given to me because it was 'too old' and newer ones are better. I also live on other people's trash). There are 800 steps in a millimeter, no more, no less.

Of course, steppers and acme screws instead of servos and ball screws limit acceleration (takes me ~1/16" to reach max. speed) and maximum speed (~1.5 inch/sec under load), but in a hobbyist setting: who cares? I can still move the axes quicker than I have horsepower on the spindle for.

Quote:
Had to laugh when u said "go into the garage and close the door" - A+ and amen! Many murders have been avoided thru the sanctuary of such a holy place!
The government should subsidize those holy places! 80% tax rebate on tools to start with!

Quote:
"It is a far better place to spend time than behind the television" We need to teach our kids this.


Specific skill: 'repairing' my bikes with miles and miles of tape :)
He hates welding and grinding though since he is not allowed to watch while those activities are in progress.
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:07 AM   #1175
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Originally Posted by DaBit View Post
I won't get that far. I do want to experiment with a 4th axis in the future though to see if that could save me buying a lathe. 99% of the turning jobs I have involve just simple spacer bushings etc.

After all this started out as 'I need a machine which can drill round holes square to the workpiece' instead of triangular holes that are always off square a little.
When arriving at the local 'Harbor Freight' to get me a table-size drill column with crosstable (so drilling an accurate hole pattern would be a little easier) the guy in the store said 'I have one, I would like to sell it to you, but frankly, the quality of those machines is not what it used to be anymore so I recommend against it. You would be back here complaining within two weeks'. After some instant Googling I left with this machine. The Optimum BF20 Vario / Grizzly G0704 and other names this very same machine is sold under seem to have a strong following.

And of course, pretty soon after purchasing I destroyed workpiece number three by miscounting the turns on the wheels and found the lack of a digital readout on the X/Y axes annoying. After a little research I found out that adding a DRO would be more expensive than implementing open-loop stepper motor control of the axes using homebuilt electronics and junk computers etc.



I love to walk into the garage, close the door, turn on the music, and minding my own business without kids/girsfriend/boss/whatever nagging me constantly. It is my 'meditation room' to keep me mentally sane (uh, all relative of course )

Seeing the mathematics implemented in the stepper motor winding current controller actually perform very quick and tight current regulation makes my heart tick a bit faster. The whirring of the motor combined with the sound of an end mill eating through C45 steel like it's butter makes me smile and feel all warm and cozy. It is a far better place to spend time than behind the television.

And of course there is always the money issue. Bolt-on retrofit kits are pretty expensive.

Well, uhm, OK, back ontopic :)

I completely understand and feel everything you are saying. The garage is a holy place. Many hours spent in there pondering things. Boring, mundane tasks are even good in that your body is in auto-pilot while your subconcious mind chews on the next task at hand. TV is pretty much garbage nowadays with all the "reality" b.s.

I do like seeing old episodes of American Hot Rod. If you can ignore the stupid drama that producers think it takes to sell the show, you can see some quality fab going on. When I watched it back then, I didn't know what I know now. What they are doing makes more sense know that I think I know. Look, honey, I have that tool!

It looks like your garage helper is deep in thought! I love it!
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:11 AM   #1176
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"It is a far better place to spend time than behind the television" We need to teach our kids this.
^ I agree one hundred percent!


I love it when we all go somewhere and my kids point out where something is welded. I love that. Then they can usually tell me if it's migged or tigged. I think that's just great.
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:15 AM   #1177
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Wow - the same hole saw! It deserved to be bronzed and mounted to a plaque.

What is your next purchase? And it you will be anywhere near Columbus on your road trip and would like a free lunch, ping me.

Watch the series on fixing the merry go round. The level of craftsmanship and restoration skills is amazing.
It was a used holesaw before I began. It's probably been through at least 300 thick holes. And - I was thinking about it - with all the heat cycles and oil quenching - maybe the temper is keeping the teeth sharp? Maybe? I dunno. All I know is that it keeps throwing out large, bright shavings, so I keep using it. If the oil starts smoking, slow down, add oil, or both.

Another good trick (on larger holesaws) is to pack the inside with a rag and saturate that with oil to keep the temp down. Have a plastic cup filled with oil and keep dipping the holesaw in the oil. Low-buck tech that works very well.

Next up is a 12ga x 48" Roper Whitney box/pan brake. I have to go to Willoughby, OH to retreive it. I was supposed to go last week, but the weather hosed me up.







Looks to be in good, used condition. I'll give her some lovin' with some new paint. Hence the need for the gantry. I don't want to do the "unistrut slide" like I did with the shear. That was pretty stupid on many levels, but I was determined to get it in the garage.

I sold another motorcycle to finance the gantry build and brake purchase and have enough to build a few sets of panniers left over. That was the plan. Ghetto economics 101. X amount of garage equity out = X amount back in. Nice motorcycles are everywhere, and I never have a hard time finding nice ones. There will be more. The KLR isn't going anywhere, though! Out of all I've owned (LOTS!) I've bonded with the weakest, slowest, ugliest of the bunch. Ummm - no. The V-Strom was the ugliest. Heheheh. But the KLR is a keeper. That's a mouthful coming from me. My bikes rarely stay around for 6 months or so. I don't mind making sacrifices to try to go the direction I want to go. I have zero regrets offing the V-Strom to buy the 252 that started this whole journey.


Thanks for the offer. I'll have to look at the map and see how close you are.

I will definatey check out his videos. Not only is his craftsmanship nice, but his video quality and presentation is very clear, concise, and to the point. I like that.

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Old 12-24-2012, 07:45 AM   #1178
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All great stuff, men - love those kids. They used tape on the space shuttle too u know!
By the time my older son was 8, he helped build, and was riding his first home made mini bike, by age 12, he was in my shop with me deburring thousands of part-off nibs on a loop sander, lov'n every minute of it! (had to pay him, ofcoarse!) Now he's 26 and works for a bunch of doctors in NYC! I still can't figure that out, but he's happy, and i'm still pay'n off his school loans!

Have a great holiday
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:36 AM   #1179
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Then they can usually tell me if it's migged or tigged. I think that's just great.
So your kids are smarter then I am.
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:06 AM   #1180
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Many hours spent in there pondering things. Boring, mundane tasks are even good in that your body is in auto-pilot while your subconcious mind chews on the next task at hand.
Yep!

Quote:
TV is pretty much garbage nowadays with all the "reality" b.s.
They are trying to make us all stupid. The intellectual level goes down every year. Sing-along, dance-along, cook-along, blah. Within 10 years we all are too stupid to wipe our asses. Even Discovery is mostly soap nowadays.

Quote:
It looks like your garage helper is deep in thought! I love it!
No, he was complaining that I was doing it wrong. I should have used tape and the vacuum cleaner (another favorite toy for a 3-year-old).

Quote:
Now he's 26 and works for a bunch of doctors in NYC!
Oh well, We shall see where my little guys end up. Interests come, interests go. And for a 3-year-old everything daddy does is interesting, in the garage or not. That also changes soon enough.
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:41 AM   #1181
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...

Another good trick (on larger holesaws) is to pack the inside with a rag and saturate that with oil to keep the temp down. Have a plastic cup filled with oil and keep dipping the holesaw in the oil. Low-buck tech that works very well.

...
Great tip.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:43 PM   #1182
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Ahem....why didn't I do this yesterday????? I swear I can be a knucklehead sometimes. I finished up the last 12 or so holes in about 15 minutes flat. For not feeling like moving the tractor, pulling out the drill, etc, I pay the price for having a still numb thumb. Big dummy.



A bit messy, but we're moving full steam ahead...



A good stopping point for now until after the holidays.



A get back on the Christmas present for my sis-in-law. I was going to use an acid wash to rust the high spots like josjor mentioned, but this is spraypaint, and I think it may have ruined it. I use 80 grit to take the high spots to bare metal, then set it outside for a week for the rust to start on its own.

I rough it up again with a piece of a fine scotchbrite pad. Then I use some One-Shot striping enamel and some Mack #2 and #5 script brushes and do some hand painting.

I hadn't done this in a while, so it felt good to knock the dust off the brushes. I hope she likes it.


I wish everyone Happy Holidays!

Until next time...

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Old 12-24-2012, 01:44 PM   #1183
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Just found this thread. You have a nice set up there Kirkster70!

I'm thinking of taking the welding course at LFCC that starts up in early January if I can still register. I took a welding class in eight grade and did well but haven't touched a welder since. I assume you took the course at LFCC too.? What did they cover in the class?
I'm mainly interested in tig welding aluminum. I'm starting to look around for a used tig machine but am in no hurry to buy and am open to suggestions on welders and welding.
I have found a couple other welding oriented threads I'll have to go thru and see if I can understand what they are talking about.


Happy Holidays everyone!
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:58 PM   #1184
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Great tip.
no, THIS is a great tip!

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No, he was complaining that I was doing it wrong. I should have used tape and the vacuum cleaner
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:04 PM   #1185
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Hey Kirk! I finished the gun case. It looks JUST like a Liberty!




Yep I slide it down the rug into my APT. I figured out the steel plate costs and I was at about 350 WITHOUT a way to lock it. I got this for 309. I will have to think of something else to weld...
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