ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-18-2010, 05:13 AM   #31
Kaasua
n00b
 
Kaasua's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Finland, few clicks south of Arctic circle
Oddometer: 7
Are you suspecting that the discoloration underside the piston is caused by exhaust gases leaking through the crack ? Could it be that the crown of the piston is so hot that oil has "cooked" to the underside of the piston ?
Kaasua is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2010, 08:53 AM   #32
Tseta OP
Lost
 
Tseta's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Finland
Oddometer: 669
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaasua
Are you suspecting that the discoloration underside the piston is caused by exhaust gases leaking through the crack ?
Yes, this is exactly what I am suspecting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaasua
Could it be that the crown of the piston is so hot that oil has "cooked" to the underside of the piston ?
However, this is possible as well. Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle. In any case, the piston is done.

It seems that I can have the Pro-X or the Wiseco piston kits ordered through a local dealer. I wonder if I would be better off with one or the other, or should I try ordering a Wössner (Motolab approved spelling ) piston myself directly from Germany?

I had the cylinder measured at a measuring lab through some "connections". The results were as follows:

HeightDiameterRunout
-5 mm101.0205 mm0.0137 mm
-45 mm101.0181 mm0.0061 mm
-86 mm101.0196 mm0.0103 mm


It seems that the cylinder is in good condition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwktmbill
There is quite a bit of carbon on the piston top, when you get to the carb I'd be interested to know what the jetting and needle position are?
The bike has the Dell'Orto PHM 40 SD carburator on it. The current settings are:

Throttle valve - 40
Main jet - 188
Slow jet - 55
Needle jet - DR270
Idle jet - 45
Jet needle - K51
Needle clip - 3rd from top
Mixture screw - 3/4 turns open
Tseta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2010, 09:28 AM   #33
Tseta OP
Lost
 
Tseta's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Finland
Oddometer: 669
Some updates on today's progress. I experienced a setback once again. This is becoming quite depressing.

So, I continued with disassembling the engine. It was time to remove the clutch and other components under the clutch cover.



I tried many ways to hold the clutch from moving to undo the clutch nut. Nothing worked. Thankfully, my local KTM dealer let me borrow the official LC4 clutch holder tool.



Even with this nice tool, it was difficult to get the nut to move. Yes, I had realized to flatten the locking washer. When the nut finally broke loose, it also broke something else:





More expensive parts to order.

The clutch basket itself looks all right.



The counter-balancer's bearing housing in the clutch cover has some strange marks.



As does the clutch cover itself, right in the middle of the clutch packet.



So, with the clutch out of the way, the oil pumps could be accessed.



Before that, though, the mainshaft bearing retainer was removed for inspection. There has been some discussion about wearing retainers here





The retainer on this bike shows about 0.5mm of wear. To recap, the bike has about 50,000kms on it and one of the previous owners has changed the mainshaft bearing to the newer, roller type.



So, now with everything removed from under the clutch cover,



it was time to inspect the oil pumps.



The oil pump housing had some grooves in both of the cases. The clearances checked out just fine on both, but the upper pump's outer rotor was badly scratched and the lower pump's inner rotor's tip had a chunk missing from it. I think the bike would benefit from new oil pumps. Hopefully KTM has managed to get the oil pump situation under control already.

This (bad) picture tries to show that there is perhaps some discoloration also on the conrod end? Combustion gases, excessive heat or cooked oil?



So, then the components under the ignition cover were removed. A pin wrench works very well as an improvised magneto holder tool.



Unfortunately, it is not possible to split the cases while the engine is attached to the repair stand that I made. Thus the engine was lifted onto the table on wood blocks, and is now awaiting the split. How exciting!



Cheers,

Tseta
Tseta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2010, 02:46 PM   #34
B-Rod
RubberNecker
 
B-Rod's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Alberta
Oddometer: 1,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tseta
Even with this nice tool, it was difficult to get the nut to move. Yes, I had realized to flatten the locking washer. When the nut finally broke loose, it also broke something else:





More expensive parts to order.
Should you ever consider a Rekluse clutch, this part is replaced with a Rekluse part. Maybe a plea in the Flea Market will locate a used replacement.

Great thread, I love this stuff.
__________________
Save $5 on Smugmug by using this code. LW9ZIPzdRGzaI
B-Rod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2010, 03:07 PM   #35
wrk2surf
on the gas or brakes
 
wrk2surf's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: THE exact center of California/Bass lake/Yosemite
Oddometer: 6,218
vossner.. wössner... woessner.. to lazy to look up shortcuts..


nice work my norwegian friend

and Derek.. let us know its alt whatever for our lack of punctuation prowess. but the alt0246 is easy !
__________________
Thanks for the 2014 support:BELL HELMETS, SCOTT USA, Kriega USA, Carbon-pro.com, GPR stabilzers, Renazco Racing, Sidi/Motonation, Masters paint and body, Magura , motolab , Tripy GPS, Loctite and Dunlop tires .
wrk2surf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2010, 11:50 PM   #36
bmwktmbill
Traveler
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Traveler
Oddometer: 4,786
The bike has the Dell'Orto PHM 40 SD carburator on it. The current settings are:

Throttle valve - 40
Main jet - 188
Slow jet - 55
Needle jet - DR270
Idle jet - 45
Jet needle - K51
Needle clip - 3rd from top
Mixture screw - 3/4 turns open
__________________

Does anyone know what the OEM jetting is for the Dellorto is supposed to be?
bill
__________________
'02 KTM 640 Adventure-lowered
"On the road there are no special cases."
Cormack McCarthy-The Crossing

The faster it goes the faster it breaks.
And high performance=high maintenance.
Bill Shockley
bmwktmbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2010, 12:11 AM   #37
Dirtybill
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Canaderrrrrr
Oddometer: 219
Not to rain on your parade but wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to get rid of the KTMs and get a good bike like a Husky?

That's what I did after my KTM grenaded and it was stuck in a KTM dealership while under warranty for 3 months of prime riding season.
Dirtybill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2010, 12:28 AM   #38
AndyE_UK
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: York, UK
Oddometer: 101

AndyE_UK screwed with this post 10-19-2010 at 05:12 AM
AndyE_UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2010, 12:48 AM   #39
makazica
Studly Adventurer
 
makazica's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Oddometer: 736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtybill
Not to rain on your parade but wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to get rid of the KTMs and get a good bike like a Husky?

That's what I did after my KTM grenaded and it was stuck in a KTM dealership while under warranty for 3 months of prime riding season.
Right. By Husky you mean Husqvarna?
makazica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2010, 12:54 AM   #40
Dirtybill
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Canaderrrrrr
Oddometer: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by makazica
Right. By Husky you mean Husqvarna?
Correct.
Dirtybill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2010, 01:06 AM   #41
bobfab
Beastly Adventurer
 
bobfab's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Westminster CO
Oddometer: 1,255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tseta

Even with this nice tool, it was difficult to get the nut to move. Yes, I had realized to flatten the locking washer. When the nut finally broke loose, it also broke something else:

Tseta

I have done the exact same thing on a CRF. Its a real bummer when you realize that the job magnified in cost

Been There! Good luck great thread.
__________________
Project Labor of Love: 1972 CT90 Rebuild
Current Stable: VFR800 | CRF250L | KTM200SX
bobfab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2010, 02:08 AM   #42
Tseta OP
Lost
 
Tseta's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Finland
Oddometer: 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwktmbill
The bike has the Dell'Orto PHM 40 SD carburator on it. The current settings are:

Throttle valve - 40
Main jet - 188
Slow jet - 55
Needle jet - DR270
Idle jet - 45
Jet needle - K51
Needle clip - 3rd from top
Mixture screw - 3/4 turns open
__________________

Does anyone know what the OEM jetting is for the Dellorto is supposed to be?
bill
See here.

-T
Tseta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2010, 02:12 AM   #43
Tseta OP
Lost
 
Tseta's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Finland
Oddometer: 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtybill
Not to rain on your parade but wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to get rid of the KTMs and get a good bike like a Husky?

That's what I did after my KTM grenaded and it was stuck in a KTM dealership while under warranty for 3 months of prime riding season.
The bike I'm working on now is not mine, and thus I cannot make that type of decision for it's owner.

I have found that the '03 LC4 Adventure (silver, the fastest color) is just about the perfect bike for me. I will be keeping it as long as I can.

-T
Tseta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2010, 03:16 AM   #44
Tseta OP
Lost
 
Tseta's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Finland
Oddometer: 669
Thanks for all the words of encouragement with this project.

Today I went ahead and split the cases. This was very exciting and nerve wrecking. It is the first time I've done anything like this.



The cases came apart with just a few small taps using a plastic mallet.



I found these bits and pieces (ferromagnetic) inside the case.



The "upper" case half looked clean.



Then onto the the crankshaft and transmission.





I went ahead and removed the rest of the transmission components as instructed in the shop manual.







The problem is that I cannot find any real damage anywhere. The bits and pieces must have come from somewhere, but I found no damaged bearings or gearwheels. I must still take the kickstarter out, and take a closer look at the transmission shafts, but I doubt there is any larger problems there either. I'm very confused by all this.

I did find something wrong with the crankshaft & conrod assembly.





The crank bearing's inner ring moves quite freely on the crank (not so much as to slide completely off, though). This is surely not normal?

The conrod big end bearing has about 0.8mm of axial play.



The specification is 1.0mm max, so that seems ok. There was also a value for radial play, but I have no idea how to measure that. When moving the conrod by hand, there doesn't seem to be any radial play.

There was also a procedure for measuring the piston pin and conrod small end bearing clearance, but since I will be getting a new piston pin anyway, this measurement would make no sense. I did notice, though, that the small end bearing is not centrally located in the conrod.





What's going on here?

I read the manual on crankshaft shimming about 10 times. I still don't get it. How is it possible to measure the cases up to the depth of the crank bearing inner ring when the inner ring is still attached to the crankshaft itself?

I think I need (local and hands-on) expert help...

Cheers,

Tseta
Tseta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2010, 07:28 AM   #45
lewis87
Adventurer
 
lewis87's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Scotland
Oddometer: 19
I can't help you with any of your questions but I am enjoying this thread, keep it up
lewis87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 11:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014