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Old 08-13-2014, 03:12 PM   #1
TXKTM950 OP
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950 Idle stick and clutch not working after oil change

Hello all,

1st post and it's a long one so go easy on me.

Need some advice, after searching the forums and the Interweb to no avail.

I'm having some issue's on a bike I "may" acquire from my brother.
It's a 2004 950 Adventure with 36,000 miles on the clock.
The bike sits about 98% of the time (he works offshore) I got laid off so figured I would at least use it more than he does.

The main issue is the bike starts fine and idles ok, but you snap the throttle and if it revs above 3k the idle hangs at 3-5K it may idle back down on it's own or maybe not. If the bike is motion sometimes the drag will make it idle back to normal.

He has told me it's been that way since he bought it used in 07ish. The bike has been in 5 KTM shops from North Carolina to Texas and the problem has never been resolved. The carbs have been gone thru numerous times including jetting, rejetting, rebuild, etc.

I cleaned the fuel system the other day, checked all the cables, checked for vacum leaks, pinched lines, etc. Checked the TPS it was way off (.30 volts)
dialed in to .54 volts fired it up, hit the throttle idle hangs at 4k the voltage on the meter drops to .54 after throttle release as it should. Push on the linkage and still no drop in RPM.

The next morning rechecked everything, but this time dialed back the TPS to .49 volts. Hey.. it works, went for a ride first 10 miles were good. Pulled over because of the clutch issue and the idle hangs at 5k. As normal, turn the bike off and restart it the idle is normal. Let it sit over night, fire it up let it get to operating temp, hit the throttle.. Dang.. hangs at 5k check the TPS and it's still at .49

The other problem is, the clutch was working great until I did a oil change on it as it had been sitting a long time. Put in a 20-50 oil because of the blazing heat here in TX right now. Fired it up and the Rekulse clutch won't release.

Went for a ride around the block thinking the plates stuck together, no luck. Changed the oil to Mobil 1 15-50 thinking that heavy oil may have caused it, nope.. same problem. Also back bleed the slave and master (fluid was a little low) didn't help. Spoke to Mike at Rekluse (Nice helpful guy by the way) and he has never heard of that happening.

Sorry for the long post, but kinda of questioning whether to keep this thing or not. Any Ideas?

Thanks for listening.

Oh forgot.. The SAS and Canisterectomy have been done. Well.. mostly

TXKTM950 screwed with this post 08-13-2014 at 04:32 PM Reason: Extra info
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Old 08-13-2014, 04:06 PM   #2
Boatman
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You have a vacuum leak some where. Ports on the intakes, vacuum lines, carb boots...... somewhere there is a vacuum leak or problem. Might even be the vacuum diaphrams in the carbs. Untill this is fixed trying to adjust the TPS is a waste of time.

Cant help with the Rekluse.
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Old 08-13-2014, 07:10 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXKTM950 View Post
Oh forgot.. The SAS and Canisterectomy have been done. Well.. mostly

Mostly???? Could be the source of a vacuum leak
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Old 08-13-2014, 09:51 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Boatman View Post
Mostly???? Could be the source of a vacuum leak
Thank you for the suggestion.

I thought I checked pretty much everywhere for a leak, but maybe I missed a spot.
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Old 08-14-2014, 12:26 PM   #5
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double check the 'choke' plungers are fully extending and seating in their bores.... I have seen the cable/s get messed up and the springs that hold the plungers into their seats cannot provide enough force to overcome a damaged and/or sticking cable. If the plunger is not seating completely it will cause a 'internal vacuum leak' within the carbs...

A easy way to perform a test would be to remove the enrichment cable system from the carbs, detach the plungers from the end of the cable end, then insert the plungers into the carbs with the springs behind them and thread in the plastic retainers.... If the engine is slightly warm, it should start without enrichment, or if cold, you could try a little squirt of fuel into the intakes to get it to fire..... then try a test ride with left tank only and see if idle still hangs...

is the Rekluse a EXP or the old PRO? If its a EXP, and the slave cylinder is not adjusted correctly, it will not disengage. If its a 'PRO', then there are a couple potential issues, but I'd bet (as you have proven already) it has nothing to do with the oil. If its a EXP and you removed the clutch slave for servicing the oil jet, verify that the ball bearing is still in the bore of the slave, also verify that there is no debris between the parts assembly that get sandwiched together when the slave is bolted to the engine (plastic base, chain guide, slave base)...

If its a PRO and it will not disengage, the wave spring might be broken.. or a flyweight ball is stuck... or the clutch pack steel plate/s are over heated and warped so the whole pack assembly is larger than what the disengagement stroke length will accomodate... ??
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Head2Wind screwed with this post 08-14-2014 at 08:28 PM
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Old 08-14-2014, 06:31 PM   #6
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Ok.. I will check the choke ting out, Have noticed that it will fire right up in the morning cold with out having to use the choke. Also tried using choke while riding to pull the idle back down, and it worked sometimes.

The clutch is the Z Start Pro according to Rekluse.
It has the KTM slave cylinder on it, so no adjustment there. Tried to adjust it at the lever but that only changes the lever pull length. After the last oil change I pulled the oil jet and made sure it wasn't plugged, But I didn't remove the slave to do it.
Nothing was was touched on the clutch other than pull the cover and check for a "milkshake" and back bleeding the system. Weird it happened after the oil change.

Thanks for the suggestions.
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Old 08-14-2014, 09:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXKTM950 View Post
Ok.. I will check the choke ting out, Have noticed that it will fire right up in the morning cold with out having to use the choke. Also tried using choke while riding to pull the idle back down, and it worked sometimes.

The clutch is the Z Start Pro according to Rekluse.
It has the KTM slave cylinder on it, so no adjustment there. Tried to adjust it at the lever but that only changes the lever pull length. After the last oil change I pulled the oil jet and made sure it wasn't plugged, But I didn't remove the slave to do it.
Nothing was was touched on the clutch other than pull the cover and check for a "milkshake" and back bleeding the system. Weird it happened after the oil change.

Thanks for the suggestions.
If it will start without enrichment (choke), there is a very good chance that the plungers are not seating correctly.
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Old 08-18-2014, 08:35 AM   #8
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Update..

I got the install instructions for Rekluse for the Z start pro the other day.

Finally got around to checking stuff this morning. Started the bike up no choke needed, if I did use it it would stall. Went thru 1/2 a can of carb cleaner and wd-40 checking for leaks (didn't do the carbs yet) idle only changed a small amount around rear carb boot. Snap the throttle fell back to idle as it should. Noticed all the ports on the manifold were plugged 3 with screws and 1 jb welded up, gave extra attention to those spots no idle difference.

Drained the oil to pull the clutch cover off for clutch inspection. pulled the lever plates separate, checked the "go-no go" with some feeler gauges 0.050 was a "no-go" which is good, and the top friction plate moved as it should.

Now the biggie, went to clean the drain plug and noticed some metal. Cleaned off and decided it may be good to check the screen. Pulled it, hardly anything on it. Took a air nozzle to see if anything would come out of the bottom of the engine, this is what I got. It seems it's getting worse, Maybe something in the clutch letting go? Any Ideas?
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TXKTM950 screwed with this post 08-18-2014 at 11:19 AM
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Old 08-18-2014, 11:49 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Head2Wind View Post
If it will start without enrichment (choke), there is a very good chance that the plungers are not seating correctly.
Following your lead I disconnected the choke's. And went for a 10 mile ride,
Idle stuck 1 time at 4k restart and all was good. After that seemed fairly good (other than raise the idle at stop to prevent stalling) But as I got closer to the house and went to stop it made a small backfire thru the carb and the idle stuck at 3k. Turned the bike off and when restarted idle was good. That was the only 2 times that I noticed
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Old 08-18-2014, 03:16 PM   #10
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Well think I know what happened to the clutch, pulled the steel plates and disc out and the inner disc grenaded taking 2 of the steel plates with it.
Still haven't figured out what the copper looking pieces are yet, thinking either from the disc or a bearing cage going bad.
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Old 08-18-2014, 03:36 PM   #11
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Have you seen The Hall Of Wisdom? http://www.ktm950.info/


"Freewheel bolts: There have been several cases of one or more of the bolts holding the freewheel assembly to the generator rotor loosening up, and in a few cases backing out far enough to make contact with the stator. This has resulted in damage to the stator, and in at least one case, the sheering off of one of the bolts. A Tech Bulletin was issued on October 16, 2004 that addresses this issue. Since it is such a critical item, it is suggested that ALL 950/990 owners check their bikes as instructed in the TB. Note: Be sure to use Locktite 648 as instructed. We have had failures caused by using lesser products in this instance."


The shards you blew out of the crankcase look just like stator shrapnel to me. This bike has lead a hard, maintenince free life, I'm guessing?
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Old 08-18-2014, 04:32 PM   #12
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Looks like stator wire to me too....
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Old 08-18-2014, 04:43 PM   #13
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The stator bolts on mine were finger tight when I got around to checking them. Tightened and locktited them. Before turning that engine over again, pull the left side cover and take a peak. Looks like some damage has started.
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Old 08-18-2014, 05:22 PM   #14
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Have you seen The Hall Of Wisdom? http://www.ktm950.info/

The shards you blew out of the crankcase look just like stator shrapnel to me. This bike has lead a hard, maintenince free life, I'm guessing?
Yes.. Been to most every site I could find. just nothing seemed to apply to the symptoms that were happening (that I could tell)

I will look at the stator while I have it tore down.

The bike sits for 99.9% of the time, and when it does get used the 5 days a year it has to go to the shop because it doesn't run right. That's the reason why I decided to try and get it running and use it for when the owner comes back from out of county.

Thanks for the lead.
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Old 08-18-2014, 05:23 PM   #15
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Looks like stator wire to me too....
I'll follow that lead next.. Thanks
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