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Old 10-29-2010, 01:57 PM   #136
markjenn
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Dunno if this has been posted yet:



I like the bike (and the video), but someone at Honda's PR firm needs to get a grip - "To Know the Unknown"? Give us a break Honda.

- Mark
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Old 10-29-2010, 03:08 PM   #137
Gryphon12
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European EX-250R

Kawasaki will be forced to bring the fuel injected European version of the Ninja 250R to the US eventually, because of emissions regulations, not because Honda brings an FI 250 here. Competition from Honda may, or may not, hasten that eventuality.

If I recall the original European specs for the Ninja 250R, the FI motor makes 36 HP (as opposed to 32 HP for carbs in the US). The reason for not bringing it here originally was price. At the time it was expected to be approximately $500 more, on top of a jump in price from $2,999 to $3,999 for the new redesign [EX-250(H) to EX-250(J)]. The $1,000 jump was considered steep enough already without going to $4,499 with FI since the target market was, and still is, mostly new riders. If Honda can keep the price of the new CBR-250R under $4,699, it will probably sell.

To me, however, the most important number will be torque, not power. And useable torque at that. While the redesign of the Ninja 250R added a little power, it actually lost a bit of peak torque. The FI version makes up a little of the lost ground. It's a blast to ride, but it's my minimum baseline.

If the new CBR-250R had the Yamaha WR-250R/X motor, I wouldn't worry. Hell, I'd be there in a flat minute. However, someone posted that this is not a CRF mill, but a new motor with lower compression. I'll wait for the test results, but if true, I'll be a little disappointed. The WR-250R/X is the current state of the art in my opinion for a streetable 250cc thumper. That's the motor I really want. Of course, they cost $6,500 msrp (almost as much as an ER-6N naked at $6,699).
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Old 10-29-2010, 03:40 PM   #138
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Sure would be sweet if this new lil' thumper was built to allow some upgrades. Like a higher compression head or something that could bump power 5-8 hp?
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Old 10-29-2010, 04:02 PM   #139
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Gryphon, you missed a couple targets... when the EX250 redesign was introduced for 2008, it carried an MSRP of $3499... mine was $3200 OTD. It wasn't till 2009 that the MRSP jumped again and carried the $100 premium for the "special graphics" editions.

And with the 2008, the HP dropped by 2 from the earlier engine design but the torque came up to 14ft/lb (that they both share) MUCH faster and was flatter across the rev range. It's still more anemic than the pre-08 "Classic" engines when it comes to rider feel.

I sold my '08 for $3500 this spring, then paid $1000 for a cherry '05 about 6 weeks later. Win across the board.
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Old 10-29-2010, 04:05 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilNinjaDog
Sure would be sweet if this new lil' thumper was built to allow some upgrades. Like a higher compression head or something that could bump power 5-8 hp?
You know the aftermarket will be all over it. Exhausts from Yoshimura, Two Brothers, Leo Vince, and so on. Plus I'm sure Dynojet will have a Power Commander for it right away. And I'm sure there will be all sorts of "free mods".
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Old 10-29-2010, 05:22 PM   #141
LuciferMutt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GotMojo?
You know the aftermarket will be all over it. Exhausts from Yoshimura, Two Brothers, Leo Vince, and so on. Plus I'm sure Dynojet will have a Power Commander for it right away. And I'm sure there will be all sorts of "free mods".
True. But I'm talking about more than just exhaust/etc. I'm wondering if the engine will be understressed enough to allow some more serious modification. The EX250 motor is really not moddable beyond intake and exhaust because it's already pretty much at it's peak power potential while still being streetable. Thumpers are often easier to make bigger changes to. I'm going to HAVE to get me a ride on one of these things!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-29-2010, 05:29 PM   #142
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I have read, (but not confirmed), that the new mill shares the same bore and stroke with the CBR1000RR. That COULD mean that much of the reciprocating assembly is the same. IF this proves true, I would think there would be room for some bigger power numbers.

Boy, that sounds like a lot of presumption and conjecture.
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Old 10-29-2010, 05:33 PM   #143
LuciferMutt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta88
I have read, (but not confirmed), that the new mill shares the same bore and stroke with the CBR1000RR. That COULD mean that much of the reciprocating assembly is the same. IF this proves true, I would think there would be room for some bigger power numbers.

Boy, that sounds like a lot of presumption and conjecture.
It would make sense if this motor is essentially one-quarter of the CBR1000 plus addons like the counterbalance shaft. I bet it will be one rev-happy lil thumper.
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Old 10-29-2010, 06:10 PM   #144
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I love the promotional Video!

I'm guessing this is a Japanese-produced promo because it seems like there are some loose translations here describing the bike.
The new CBR250R has, according to the promo:
"smart riding position"
"superior front design"
"sporty full cowling"
"elegant muffler design"
-and my favorite, "stylish hand grip" (as in the grab bar, not handlebar grips)

Funny translations aside, it is a cool video and I love getting a chance to hear the bike run. It sounds like a thumper for sure, but at high revs it's something else!
I wondered at first why they wouldn't just import that gorgeous little VTR250, but this bike is a whole new design and that's exciting to me. It's really interesting that it's a single and I bet it will be a really nice and user friendly little motor and efficient too. I bet they'll sell pretty well.
One question about that "elegant muffler design": Does it have to be so big and gaudy? Can't they put a catalytic converter into a normal looking muffler? That is my only qualm with the aesthetics of this and the new VFR.
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Old 10-29-2010, 07:53 PM   #145
mr openroad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBMorse
I'm guessing this is a Japanese-produced promo because it seems like there are some loose translations here describing the bike.
The new CBR250R has, according to the promo:
"smart riding position"
"superior front design"
"sporty full cowling"
"elegant muffler design"
-and my favorite, "stylish hand grip" (as in the grab bar, not handlebar grips)

Funny translations aside, it is a cool video and I love getting a chance to hear the bike run. It sounds like a thumper for sure, but at high revs it's something else!
I wondered at first why they wouldn't just import that gorgeous little VTR250, but this bike is a whole new design and that's exciting to me. It's really interesting that it's a single and I bet it will be a really nice and user friendly little motor and efficient too. I bet they'll sell pretty well.
One question about that "elegant muffler design": Does it have to be so big and gaudy? Can't they put a catalytic converter into a normal looking muffler? That is my only qualm with the aesthetics of this and the new VFR.
I agree with the muffler being to big and it probably muffles any real sound of the motor. the sound in the vid is dubbed in
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Old 10-29-2010, 08:12 PM   #146
markjenn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBMorse
One question about that "elegant muffler design": Does it have to be so big and gaudy? Can't they put a catalytic converter into a normal looking muffler? That is my only qualm with the aesthetics of this and the new VFR.
To meet current noise regs, you have to have muffler volume - no way around it. And smaller bikes don't have very much advantage over a larger ones, especially if they have fewer cylinders - lots of little bangs are easier to silence that a few big ones. Believe me, if the stylists had their druthers, they'd have no mufflers whatsoever.

These weird shapes aren't my cup of tea either, but the Japanese believe this is the best way to maximize volume with the space they have to work with. In any event, most just replace the things anyway. In some ways, I think the current stringent noise regs work against lowering noise in the field because the aesthetics bother so many riders, they're just pushed to put on much-louder exhausts. I'd rather see louder stock exhausts that look good enough that riders would be willing to leave on. With the current situation, we're probably only a few years away from mandatory anti-tampering laws on exhausts.

- Mark

markjenn screwed with this post 10-29-2010 at 08:18 PM
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Old 10-29-2010, 08:37 PM   #147
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I think it is cool that is is a single.

It should look more like a race bike rather than a sport touring bike.

I think the SM version of the Yamaha WR250 would eat its lunch in all situations + be more durable (drop wise) for a new rider.

My guess is this will be a dust collector in US showrooms.
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Old 10-29-2010, 09:32 PM   #148
markjenn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCQTT
I think the SM version of the Yamaha WR250 would eat its lunch in all situations + be more durable (drop wise) for a new rider.
I doubt a WR (or any SM-oriented bike) would be able to stay with this Honda at speed. There is a reason that sport bikes have fairings and aggressive riding positions besides style - they work a lot better at speed.

Agree with you about the newbie drop problem.

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Old 10-30-2010, 12:35 AM   #149
kj7687
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Nice man

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commuter Boy
Canada gets the 400cc version that weights 20 lbs less this year.
That's pretty sweet. Thanks for giving me the heads up on it. I do periodically have a gander at the various motorcycle manufacturer's foreign (not US...) web sites, but haven't "been to Canada" in a while. Sure looks better than my 500 though; that much is certain. However, I just did a little research and comparison, and it turns out that apparently my 500 actually weighs nearly 40 pounds less and makes 16 hp more than that 400, so I guess I shouldn't complain too much lol. Of course I know that 400 has better suspension, and is fuel injected, and it does look better...but I'm pretty happy with my current Ninja. It really comes alive from eight to ten thousand RPM!
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Old 10-30-2010, 12:40 AM   #150
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I don't think so

I'm pretty sure this bike will sell well, if the horsepower I've read about is 26 rwhp. If that number is at the crank, I think it will still do fairly well but won't be as much of a huge seller. I sure hope it's got 26 ponies at the wheel, because that would mean that it can really compete with the Ninja 250 performance-wise. As far as looks go, I personally think Honda got it just right, except for the color choices...although I haven't seen it in all black yet. The red/silver does look pretty good IMO, but it would definitely look better with more vivid colors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCQTT
I think it is cool that is is a single.

It should look more like a race bike rather than a sport touring bike.

I think the SM version of the Yamaha WR250 would eat its lunch in all situations + be more durable (drop wise) for a new rider.

My guess is this will be a dust collector in US showrooms.
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