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Old 10-31-2010, 08:56 AM   #166
Ginger Beard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dranrab Luap
The bike will be a grand more than the Ninja. It won't sell well. Stealing a significant market share from the Ninja 250 is a daunting task. To do it, you'll have to beat it in price or performance. Beginner budgets are limited and things like ABS, while good features for n00bs, aren't worth the extra money with their limited budgets.

Think about this. Honda's CRF230L and Kaw's KLX250 are priced the same.

That's the one thing that worries me. Honda tends to price their bikes higher than comparable bikes within the same class.
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Old 10-31-2010, 09:03 AM   #167
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We're all just speculating here, but my guess is it will be right around $4500 ( and $5000 w/ABS). Just the fact that it has FI and digital gauges makes it worthy of a slightly higher price tag than the Ninja. Any higher than that though and it will be a tough sale unless Honda has special promotions on it.
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Old 10-31-2010, 09:14 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GotMojo?
We're all just speculating here, but my guess is it will be right around $4500 ( and $5000 w/ABS). Just the fact that it has FI and digital gauges makes it worthy of a slightly higher price tag than the Ninja. Any higher than that though and it will be a tough sale unless Honda has special promotions on it.
I think the base model is going to ring in at $4900. That's what the CRF230L sells for. Compare the technology on those two.
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Old 10-31-2010, 10:01 AM   #169
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For me, I would never consider buying any new bike with carbs. So the Ninja (the version sold in the states) isn't even a competitor.

- Mark
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Old 10-31-2010, 10:10 AM   #170
Dranrab Luap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn
For me, I would never consider buying any new bike with carbs. So the Ninja (the version sold in the states) isn't even a competitor.

- Mark
Are you a beginner and/or a person with a shoestring budget?
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Old 10-31-2010, 10:29 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dranrab Luap
Are you a beginner and/or a person with a shoestring budget?
No. But I don't think this bike is pitched at a beginner or a shoestring budget. No new Honda is these days. As someone else said, beginners on shoestring budgets buy used bikes.

When Honda first came out with the Element, the target market was Gen-Y'ers who wanted a "dorm room on wheels". It hardly sold to this group at all. The actual center of the market ended up being active 45-yo's that wanted to haul their mtn bicycles to the trails and bring their Costco stuff home.

- Mark
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Old 10-31-2010, 10:49 AM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn
No. But I don't think this bike is pitched at a beginner or a shoestring budget. No new Honda is these days. As someone else said, beginners on shoestring budgets buy used bikes.

When Honda first came out with the Element, the target market was Gen-Y'ers who wanted a "dorm room on wheels". It hardly sold to this group at all. The actual center of the market ended up being active 45-yo's that wanted to haul their mtn bicycles to the trails and bring their Costco stuff home.

- Mark
I wonder what the target demographic would be if it is not beginners or budget constrained riders, and how many people would fall into that demographic group relative to others.
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Old 10-31-2010, 10:49 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrytori
Maybe...maybe not.
Although the wee Ninja can acquit itself reasonably well at interstate speeds,
most noobs don't buy a 250 for that purpose.

The downside of the Ninja is that the party doesn't get underway much below 9000 rpm. My Vespa 250 GTV is quicker off the line.

The Honda should have a clear advantage down low and may well prove to be the better sporting tool when things get real twisty.

If it has anywhere near the punch of Yamaha's Wr 250 X, it will replace the Ninja in my garage.
you seem to be ready to throw your little ninja under the bus.
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Old 10-31-2010, 11:38 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dranrab Luap
I wonder what the target demographic would be if it is not beginners or budget constrained riders, and how many people would fall into that demographic group relative to others.
Maybe Honda sees a trend towards smaller and cheaper bikes. With our crappy economy, which probably won't be improving much anytime soon, sales of the high end sport bikes will probably shrink big time. I think more people will check their ego at the door, and instead of buying a high tech superfast 600cc sport bike, they will buy something cheaper like a 250. I guess we'll see what happens...
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Old 10-31-2010, 11:42 AM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr openroad
you seem to be ready to throw your little ninja under the bus.

Yeah... It probably sounds like that.

Truth is, I have a genuine affection for that little scoot.
The fact that it took me coast to coast without incident may have a lot to do with that.

Equal truth is that I tend to like my power coming on down low (look @ my other scoots) and I have to rev the crap out of my little Ninja.

Oh yeah... I forgot... I'm also a scooter slut.


Time will tell.
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Old 10-31-2010, 12:09 PM   #176
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Well said. I agree, except for the bit about noobs not using their bikes on the freeway. I think a lot of noobs ride to college on their first bikes, which will likely involve at least a small stretch of freeway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrytori
Maybe...maybe not.
Although the wee Ninja can acquit itself reasonably well at interstate speeds,
most noobs don't buy a 250 for that purpose.

The downside of the Ninja is that the party doesn't get underway much below 9000 rpm. My Vespa 250 GTV is quicker off the line.

The Honda should have a clear advantage down low and may well prove to be the better sporting tool when things get real twisty.

If it has anywhere near the punch of Yamaha's Wr 250 X, it will replace the Ninja in my garage.
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Old 10-31-2010, 12:45 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dranrab Luap
I wonder what the target demographic would be if it is not beginners or budget constrained riders, and how many people would fall into that demographic group relative to others.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it looks like it would make a great bike for commuters: FI, helping it start easily in the morning, ABS, which is desirable to all weather riders, and sufficient bodywork to help reduce wind fatigue.
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Old 10-31-2010, 01:39 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_C
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it looks like it would make a great bike for commuters: FI, helping it start easily in the morning, ABS, which is desirable to all weather riders, and sufficient bodywork to help reduce wind fatigue.
I would think that if one were going to try to target commuters that they would build a bike designed for commuters. The number of moto commuters is SMALL. The number of those who would buy a 250 sport bike for commuting is MUCH smaller yet.

I like this little bike and I like it a lot. I have a sinking feeling though, that Honda is going to price it so high that they will lose what should be a part of their target demographic, and that is beginner and budget conscious riders.
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Old 10-31-2010, 01:44 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_C
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it looks like it would make a great bike for commuters: FI, helping it start easily in the morning, ABS, which is desirable to all weather riders, and sufficient bodywork to help reduce wind fatigue.
You know, 17 years of riding, 8 as bike only in states that got freezing temps overnight and I have NEVER had an issue starting a bike on cold mornings. Never had an FI bike either. Granted, I actually know how to tune a carb (done once, before I put a used bike on the road) and how to care for a carb. FI is for people who want "appliance" like use. I similarly don't care one way or the other for ABS. The only time I can even get it to come on in my car is if I SLAM on the brakes on ice. I know how to actually modulate brakes on my bikes, plus use my noggin to keep me out of situations where I would NEED to slam on the brakes. It's never happend. Hell, even when I tracked my Porsche w/ ABS, the ABS wouldn't kick on coming into corners

So, I fit your demographic of commuter, even Like small bikes (have an EX250 in the garage, roadraced an RS125 for several years about a decade ago), and this bike doesn't appeal to me in much of any way.

Having had this discussion with a like-minded rider and friend, we figure that US/NA demographics had nearly nothing to do with this bike design. It's made "for" the Asian countries with billions of people used to riding small displacement scooters.
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Old 10-31-2010, 02:36 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian-M
I similarly don't care one way or the other for ABS. The only time I can even get it to come on in my car is if I SLAM on the brakes on ice. I know how to actually modulate brakes on my bikes, plus use my noggin to keep me out of situations where I would NEED to slam on the brakes. It's never happend. Hell, even when I tracked my Porsche w/ ABS, the ABS wouldn't kick on coming into corners
Good, you're a good rider and driver. It isn't an argument against ABS, which at the rate industry is taking it up, will be universal in about 5 years.
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